Hamilton and F1

secretsam

I see Hamilton won again. I used to follow F1 as a kid ('70s-'80s) but lost interest. It got dominated by the cars, not the drivers. Is this still the case? Are they still obsessed with tyres?

rick_chasey

Tyre obsession has changed a little, since they're all on the same, but they're designed to go off mid-race so, without refuelling, they have a big impact on tactics (the undercut, being the main challenge) - basically the usual trade off between track position and optimal speed.

I was a big fan and until two seasons ago would watch more or less every race. That's change now a) I don't have sky anymore b) the dominance is getting tedious c) the cars won't work in the most minuscule of showers and d) the reliability of cars is borderline bombproof.

It sounds stupid because they're plainly not but they look very easy to drive and that doesn't help the spectacle.

(eg. leclerc doing 130r one handed)

Pross

I don't watch much but I believe Hamilton tried a different tactic to all the others with his tyres on Sunday that nearly paid off in giving him the race win. Ferrari and Red Bull look to be getting closer to challenging the Mercedes dominance in the most recent races. I think refuelling is coming back next season which will bring different tactics back into play. Still don't find it particularly exciting though.

figbat

pross said:

I think refuelling is coming back next season which will bring different tactics back into play.

It is up for discussion but I wouldn't hold your breath - it's a bit late in the day to make such a fundamental change to the cars' design for next year.

One benefit of refuelling though is not only strategy calls but also the cars start lighter, meaning they are easier on tyres, meaning the chance of harder racing from the off, rather than fuel and tyre-saving tactics.

darkhairedlord

I used to watch F1 all the time, then it bugg£rd off to Sky.

step83

rick_chasey said:

Tyre obsession has changed a little, since they're all on the same, but they're designed to go off mid-race so, without refuelling, they have a big impact on tactics (the undercut, being the main challenge) - basically the usual trade off between track position and optimal speed.

I was a big fan and until two seasons ago would watch more or less every race. That's change now a) I don't have sky anymore b) the dominance is getting tedious c) the cars won't work in the most minuscule of showers and d) the reliability of cars is borderline bombproof.

It sounds stupid because they're plainly not but they look very easy to drive and that doesn't help the spectacle.

(eg. leclerc doing 130r one handed)

A few drivers have commented just how easy the cars are, in clear air, if he tried that anywhere near another car he would have fallen off the road.
Thankfully the 2021 regulation changes which the teams have now approved look set to help that.
That said though I prefer watching Formula E for close racing rather than Formula 1. The current cars are far to sensitive to the wake generated by the car in front, an they have the silly push to pass DRS system.

mamil314

I guess I am more of a driver fan than vehicles or teams, so stopped watching F1 during Schumacher's domination and WRC during Loeb's.

awavey

figbat said:

pross said:

I think refuelling is coming back next season which will bring different tactics back into play.

It is up for discussion but I wouldn't hold your breath - it's a bit late in the day to make such a fundamental change to the cars' design for next year.

One benefit of refuelling though is not only strategy calls but also the cars start lighter, meaning they are easier on tyres, meaning the chance of harder racing from the off, rather than fuel and tyre-saving tactics.

I dont think theres any benefit of refuelling in F1, its dangerous for pit crews and races get decided by what happens in the pitlane as drivers are scared to risk overtakes on track as they get the inevitable front wing damage. you just end up with short sprint races, which is exactly the problem we ended up with in the Schumacher era

theres no reason F1 couldnt follow WECs tyre formulas so the tyres are more raceable on, reintroduce a bit of ground effect, so drivers can race close to each other, and push flat out for the whole race if necessary within limits of the fuel flow.

I mean this is the crazy thing, the cars are going faster than they were a decade ago, but using upto 1/3rd less fuel, you cant see on screen they are faster, and we all thought they were plenty fast enough in days gone by, we just want to see close racing, different drivers in different cars competing. I would say like motoGp, though its more competitive Marquez is on a completely other planet to the other riders which does make it a touch stale at times.

I used to watch every F1 race, practice session, qualifying, now I watch it if its on, but generally just watch the first lap,and then go do something else

rick_chasey

Yes, I tend to think having much more powerful engines and much less grip is far more entertaining than the other way around, which is the direction they have been moving in.

bianchimoon

Close consistent racing has been killed by Aerodynamics, often wondered if they banned exterior wings and let them use ye olde undertray ground effect whether we could still have fast cornering and close racing? having said all that I binned Sky a couple of years ago, so only catch the occasional terrestrial broadcast

Pross

F1 is really just a sport tagged onto future car development though isn't it? The cost is probably only realistic due to R&D budgets for the next generation family cars.

rick_chasey

The ebb and flow of how cars perform as the season goes on and they visit different tracks with different characteristics is a really important and interesting part of the racing.

I am also one who misses the old European tracks which felt like they had their unique challenges. The tricky curbs of Imola or the absolutely nuts fast Hockenheim which made the otherwise dull stadium bit hella exciting as they had to tip-toe round with their tea-tray rear wing, or mangy cours with its weirdly smooth tarmac which affected tyres in weird ways.

I don't get the same from the newer courses, with a few exceptions, but then that's probably because I don't have the hours to play Grand Prix 6 or whatever the latest instalment of the Geoff Crammond franchise is.

elbowloh

The new courses built in the middle of fecking no-where with no spectators and no local interest in motor sport are just a shame. Races have been taken away from historic tracks, who attracted big, passionate crowds just because they pumped in a load of money. I guess it was good economically, but not a way to maintain the fan-base or to get new fans.

step83

Thankfully the 2021 regs are allowing ground effect with aero designed to reduce the amount of turbulent air hitting the car behind, ergo faster cornering speeds, closer racing, and more dramatic looking moves.
Also theres a R&D budget cap for all teams so there should be less of a gap between cars in terms of performance.

chris_bass

I know it'll never happen but would be interesting if the season was split in two, first half sorted out which was the best car then the second half picked the best driver with them all using the car that won the first half.

Longshot

step83 said:

Thankfully the 2021 regs are allowing ground effect with aero designed to reduce the amount of turbulent air hitting the car behind, ergo faster cornering speeds, closer racing, and more dramatic looking moves.
Also theres a R&D budget cap for all teams so there should be less of a gap between cars in terms of performance.

They've also been smart enough to try and improve the 'look' of the cars as well. Whilst the die hard fans may not care, it might help attract a few more to the sport. Although one suspects that getting it back on free to air TV would increase the audience more.

step83

longshot said:

step83 said:

Thankfully the 2021 regs are allowing ground effect with aero designed to reduce the amount of turbulent air hitting the car behind, ergo faster cornering speeds, closer racing, and more dramatic looking moves.
Also theres a R&D budget cap for all teams so there should be less of a gap between cars in terms of performance.

They've also been smart enough to try and improve the 'look' of the cars as well. Whilst the die hard fans may not care, it might help attract a few more to the sport. Although one suspects that getting it back on free to air TV would increase the audience more.

True, thankfully if you line up the next gen F1 cars with the current Gen2 FE cars, they both look rather futuristic






Also, the underside of the next gen F1 carsm not super clear but theres two big cutaways to induce ground effect, it should prove very interesting for designers such as Newey, Costa etc