Numpty!

chewa

On commute home guy on a road bike overtook me at bottom of a gradient as I slowed for a give way, me having seen a second truck coming (slowly) round the bend. He obviously hadn't paid attention to the road markings, didn't see the truck until the last minute and slammed on the brakes.
I could only watch in horror as he locked up the rear (it was v wet) and skidded round the front of the truck and sort of bounced off it, the truck having stopped.
Wasn't hurt, but got very upset when I refused to back him up in blaming the driver.
The truck driver was, however, very grateful, but said he wasn't concerned as area was covered by CCTV.
Fair ruined my commute home though. A lucky escape, but I was really pissed off at him gettiing wound up at me!

elbowloh

How could even begin to blame the truck if he went straight through the give way sign?

poweredbyidris

Default reaction of (aggressively) blaming others is the normal reaction now.

Had one a couple of months ago where I stopped at a zebra crossing to allow a pedestrian to cross and someone cycled into the back of me. His first reaction was not to say sorry but have a go at me for stopping as the pedestrian 'was letting us go'. Calmly pointed out that she was waiting for the traffic to stop before stepping onto the road and that he should brush up on his highway code.

chewa

I was only a witness as he had come flying past me as I slowed approaching the give way markings, having seen the truck. Driver said whole area is covered by CCTV so he wasn't worried. No damage to truck or bike that I could see and cyclist seemed fine as he got going. Hopefully will make him assess risk better!

tootsie323

I sometimes wonder whether it is a symptom of being wary of saying anything that may be translated as one being liable for an incident. It's almost an instinctive reaction for many to seek someone / something else to blame.

The Rookie

poweredbyidris said:

Calmly pointed out that she was waiting for the traffic to stop before stepping onto the road and that he should brush up on his highway code.

Not sure which bit you refer to? The bit that says you give way to pedestrians ON the crossing or the bit about not passing the front most vehicle?

Maybe he was miffed you gave way when you didn't have to causing him to nearly pass the front most vehcile?

pblakeney

How many people have the balls to step out in front of moving traffic to get onto the crossing?
Most will wait for the traffic to stop.

“Rule 19
Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped.”

The law invites pedestrians to play chicken. The law is an ass.

elbowloh

I believe the dropped curve is considered to be part of the crossing?

So if they're there, then you should stop.

pblakeney

elbowloh said:

I believe the dropped curve is considered to be part of the crossing?

So if they're there, then you should stop.

That's how I treat it. Reads on this thread like others don't.

slowbike

pblakeney said:

elbowloh said:

I believe the dropped curve is considered to be part of the crossing?

So if they're there, then you should stop.

That's how I treat it. Reads on this thread like others don't.

well - most of us survive without needing to refer to "the rules" ...

"the rules" should only be there for guidance - and not really needed in order to let people go about their journeys safely.

We have to cross a main trunk road on the school run, there's a central island - most of the pupils cross here - there is no lollipop person...
Never had an issue - we walk along the path till we get to the crossing point - at which point most of the time, one of the vehicles will stop to let us go, despite that there is no compulsion to do so - it's just politeness. Sometimes we have to wait a short while...

I hate all this "It was my right of way" - no, it's not - you must always try and avoid a collision - regardless of your perception of the priorities.

awavey

pblakeney said:

elbowloh said:

I believe the dropped curve is considered to be part of the crossing?

So if they're there, then you should stop.

That's how I treat it. Reads on this thread like others don't.

I always thought the way it was written down, as opposed to how its subsequently interpreted, which lets face it we all agree is a mess regardless, your foot had to be on the road itself to be considered part of you actually crossing

because that section starts by saying approaching a Zebra crossing, you have to look out for pedestrians waiting to cross and slow down or stop to let them cross, if they were waiting to cross but already considered to be "on the crossing" just standing at a dropped bit of pavement, it would just say you must stop if you see a pedestrian.

but it doesnt, and it goes on in the HC to say remember traffic does not have to stop, until you are on the crossing so you should wait till they stop, which is the contradictory bit.

on the whole most people stop for people waiting, though last time I did that on my bike, and it wasnt like an emergency stop, I saw the pedestrian car in front of me ignored her, but I stopped and the pedestrian still freaked out that Id still somehow ride into her, and then I got beeped at and close passed by a numpty driver for good measure

The Rookie

pblakeney said:

elbowloh said:

I believe the dropped curve is considered to be part of the crossing?

So if they're there, then you should stop.

That's how I treat it. Reads on this thread like others don't.

The law is black and white, standing on the footway (aka pavement in common parlance) whether by a dropped kerb or not is clearly NOT on the crossing which is part of the carriageway, you only have to give way to someone on the crossing.
Of course if you see them and they step out in front of you then you need to give way and your approach speed needs to accommodate that.
Choosing to give way to someone on the footway is optional and it's up to the individual driver/rider whether or not to do that.

Heck it even makes that clear in the Highway Code as quoted above, your opinions or beliefs don't over ride the facts!

elbowloh

This is from the highway code:

195
Zebra crossings. As you approach a zebra crossing


- look out for pedestrians waiting to cross and be ready to slow down or stop to let them cross
- you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing
- allow more time for stopping on wet or icy roads
- do not wave or use your horn to invite pedestrians across; this could be dangerous if another vehicle is approaching
- be aware of pedestrians approaching from the side of the crossing.

I still think it's unclear as to whether the dropped kerb is part of the crossing. I'd argue that it is.

This is the pic from the book:

https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/uploads/3/2/9/2/3292309/rule-19-zebra-crossings-have-flashing-beacons_orig.jpg

The Rookie

The rest of the RTE's make it clear a dropped kerb is still footway and that the crossing is part of the road, go read up to your hearts content if you won't accept it.

RTE=Road Traffic Enactments, Road Traffic Act, offences Act, TSRGD etc.

elbowloh

The Rookie said:

The rest of the RTE's make it clear a dropped kerb is still footway and that the crossing is part of the road, go read up to your hearts content if you won't accept it.

RTE=Road Traffic Enactments, Road Traffic Act, offences Act, TSRGD etc.

Even so, if you need to be aware of people waiting to cross and if you fail to stop once they have stepped on to the crossing and hit them, you're on a sticky wicket. So, to be safe, you should stop for people who are waiting to cross.

Longshot

elbowloh said:

The Rookie said:

The rest of the RTE's make it clear a dropped kerb is still footway and that the crossing is part of the road, go read up to your hearts content if you won't accept it.

RTE=Road Traffic Enactments, Road Traffic Act, offences Act, TSRGD etc.

Even so, if you need to be aware of people waiting to cross and if you fail to stop once they have stepped on to the crossing and hit them, you're on a sticky wicket. So, to be safe, you should stop for people who are waiting to cross.

This is the crux of it IMO. Whilst you may only be required to stop once they step out, they may decide to do this at a point where you can't stop in time. I'm not sure how that plays out in any follow up legal action.

The Rookie

The advice is all in the HC and I've already said exactly the same. But thanks for repeating it...........

pblakeney

longshot said:

elbowloh said:

The Rookie said:

The rest of the RTE's make it clear a dropped kerb is still footway and that the crossing is part of the road, go read up to your hearts content if you won't accept it.

RTE=Road Traffic Enactments, Road Traffic Act, offences Act, TSRGD etc.

Even so, if you need to be aware of people waiting to cross and if you fail to stop once they have stepped on to the crossing and hit them, you're on a sticky wicket. So, to be safe, you should stop for people who are waiting to cross.

This is the crux of it IMO. Whilst you may only be required to stop once they step out, they may decide to do this at a point where you can't stop in time. I'm not sure how that plays out in any follow up legal action.

Which is why I said that the law is stupid* requiring the pedestrian to play chicken. As a driver or cyclist I play safe and stop to play safe as I don't want the consequences on my conscience or having to go to court.

*I did use another word that got picked up when I could have used a stronger word with the same consequences.