Newbie confusion with bike fit

angrod

Hey, I'm a beginner in cycling, and just got my first ever road bike ( CAAD12 105 2019, bought it for 1500€ ).
i'm very happy with it, but there's one thing that bothers me.

The bike is the right size, the saddle height is on point ( setup in bike store + I tried different settings ), but whenever I get Aero, my thighs touch my chest when pedaling.
I asked about it in a bike store, and he told me that either the saddle is too low, or I'm very aero ( smiling saying this, like it wouldn't be possible ).

I've never considered myself flexible, so I tried to take photos of me on the positions that are problematic. I don't have a home trainer, so I can't show how it is when I'm actually riding.
But I still replicated how my body position feels on the bike when riding.

I know I should do a proper bike fit, but it's a bit expensive so I can't do this for at least 2 month.


Please, do you guys have some ideas about this ?

- Is the bike just not "made" to be aero ( I doubt it ) ?

- Are my thighs too big ? ( always had pretty big thighs for your normal guy, maybe because I played rugby for 5 years )

- Maybe it's the crank lengh ( 170mm ) ?
When I asked this in the bike store, he told me he didn't think it was the problem.
I don't know if he was being honest, or trying to not say too much so I buy the bike fit.


Any help very much appreciated !

The pictures ( thighs touching my chest in both positions ) :

https://imgur.com/a/M2O81Qu

webboo

Is your left foot on the floor in those pictures. Re saddle height heels on pedals pedal backwards without your hips rocking is a rough guide to correct saddle height.

StillGoing

Your hip angle at the top is very tight even for an aero position, suggesting to me that the frame is too big if your saddle height has been set correctly. Judging how little of the seat post is showing, I'd say again that the frame is too big. Many of the pro peloton use frames a size too small without experiencing your problem. The majority of in store fittings are nothing but guesstimates based on what the store assistant thinks and to try and sell you a bike from stock.

angrod

Webboo wrote:

Is your left foot on the floor in those pictures. Re saddle height heels on pedals pedal backwards without your hips rocking is a rough guide to correct saddle height.

I assure you the saddle is not the problem.

philthy3 wrote:

Your hip angle at the top is very tight even for an aero position, suggesting to me that the frame is too big if your saddle height has been set correctly. Judging how little of the seat post is showing, I'd say again that the frame is too big.

I'm 1m76 ( ~5'77 ), and the frame is 54cm. It seemed good to me.
But I didn't know about pros using smaller bikes for a better fit.
Well if the bike's size is wrong, I'm f*cked...
Thanks for your reply, I didn't know hip angle could be a problem, I'll try to learn more about that.

webboo

If the saddle height is fine, then lower your handlebars. You appear to have a few spacers under your stem.

david7m

Webboo wrote:

If the saddle height is fine, then lower your handlebars. You appear to have a few spacers under your stem.

I thought that would make things worse by lowering his torso further ?

angrod

david7m wrote:

Webboo wrote:

If the saddle height is fine, then lower your handlebars. You appear to have a few spacers under your stem.

I thought that would make things worse by lowering his torso further ?

Yeah, it doesn't look like a good idea

webboo

I have just gone and played on the turbo and I can get in the position but I couldn’t ride very far like that other than if I was descending. How far can you ride like that.
Also your arms appear to be at 90 degrees most people’s would a bit more stretched out than that, still with the elbows bent. I wonder if you need a longer stem.

dannbodge

Dropping your heel will also help. You look like you're pedalling with your tiptoes.
Try with your feet flat.

Top tip for photos.. go next to a wall and get both feet clipped in, using your elbow/shoulder to lean on

angrod

Webboo wrote:

I have just gone and played on the turbo and I can get in the position but I couldn’t ride very far like that other than if I was descending. How far can you ride like that.
Also your arms appear to be at 90 degrees most people’s would a bit more stretched out than that, still with the elbows bent. I wonder if you need a longer stem.

I'm not able to ride very far either, because my genitals hurt pretty fast ( I don't have a good saddle for this kind of position though ), otherwise I'm fine. I don't feel uncomfortable at all.

Dannbodge wrote:

Dropping your heel will also help. You look like you're pedalling with your tiptoes.
Try with your feet flat.

Top tip for photos.. go next to a wall and get both feet clipped in, using your elbow/shoulder to lean on

Yeah, I'm used to pedal like that. I tried to flatten my feet position, but it doesn't work for me.
I've walked on my toes for 90% of my life, I just stopped recently. So i'm pretty used to it.

Ok, i'll keep that in mind.


I'll try to see if stem length could be the issue. I really hope it's not the bike's size...

pilot_pete

Pretty good picture of a pedal stroke here;

https://www.bicycling.com/training/a200 ... mechanics/

If your heel is dropped on the downstroke it will pull your knee/ thigh down a bit lower. In the picture you are incredibly crouched down with an almost flat back, even on the hoods. I would be surprised if you could hold that position for very long at all so really the issue may be a non-issue if you are not going to spend anything more than a few seconds in that position.

As others have said, get clipped in on both feet and get a side on picture without the low down/ looking up perspective from the camera. Take pictures with your arms almost straight holding the hoods (which would be the sort of position you will hold for most of your ride. Take pictures at the top and bottom of the pedal stroke - at the bottom of the stroke (well actually just before, so the crank arm is lined up with the seat tube). Also take a picture with the foot closest to the camera at the 3 o’clock position with the crank arm horizontal.

Now unclip the foot closest to the camera, put the pedal at the bottom of the pedal stroke with your heel on the pedal. You should not be rocking your hips to ‘reach’ down with that foot to the pedal. Pedal with both heels in this fashion whilst holding your pelvis rock steady. Your legs should be straight at the bottom of the stroke, but not rocking to get a little bit more reach (saddle too high), and not having a bend at the knee still (which would mean your saddle is too low).

If you can fashion a goniometer (google it) with a straightened coat hanger and a bolt, nut and washers, you will be able to get an assistant to roughly measure some of the basic angles. You want about a 30 degree bend in the knee at the bottom of the pedal stroke (when clipped in).

Make sure your cleats are adjusted correctly so that the knuckle behind your big toe is in line with the pedal axle.

With the pedal at the 3 o’clock position, clipped in, you want the bottom of the patella (knee cap) pretty much dead over the pedal axle (make a plumb bob with a shoe lace/ string and a heavy nut or something similar). Get your assistant to hold the string against that point below the knee where a doctor hits to check your reflex by making you kick out involuntarily).

The string should drop vertically so you can estimate if you need to move the saddle back or forwards on the rails to get your patella over the pedal axle. Recheck the knee bend at bottom dead centre after this adjustment, as they both affect each other. With the saddle correctly adjusted, and assuming some core strength, you should be able to pedal on a turbo with yo7r hands on the hoods with a little bend at the elbows (not dead straight). You should be able to remove your hands from the bars whilst still pedalling and not fall forwards. This means your centre of gravity is in the right place. If you are falling forwards you probably need to shift back a little further with the saddle.

Once that is done, again hold the hoods and using your goniometer check the angle from your torso, to your shoulder joint, to your upper arm. This wants to be roughly a right angle. If it is bigger, you are reaching too far to the bars, if it is smaller, your bars are too close. Another method to check this is to look down without craning your neck or tucking it in, and looking at the handlebar tops (where they are joined to your stem). If they obscure the view of your front hub then you are in the correct position reach wise. If you can see the front hub behind the bars your stem is too long, if you can see the hub in front of the bars your stem is too short.

You need to get the saddle to bar drop comfortable - you look like you can get quite low, but it needs to be sustainable and therefore comfortable. I’m not talking in the drops here, I’m talking the normal riding position on the hoods, which is how you will spend the majority of your time riding. Try to keep that 90 degree torso/ upper arm angle and the obscured view of the front hub as you make adjustments by lowering or heightening the bars by way of removing/ adding stem spacers and/ or flipping your stem or swapping the stem for one with a different angle (which may require different lengths of stem too).

Adjust the levers around the bars, and the bars around the stem to get a straight wrist position when holding the hoods, and then also when in the drops. This will mean you are not going to be straining wrists to hold either position.

Thats pretty much a very basic bike fit. As you get fitter and more flexible and used to the position you may be able to make further adjustments to get closer to the position you have in those photos, whilst maintaining comfort and being able to sustain it.

PP

imposter2.0

Those pics, once seen, cannot be unseen..

webboo

Imposter wrote:

Those pics, once seen, cannot be unseen..

I did wonder why you would post a picture of yourself in your socks and thunder pants in order to discuss how aero you can get. There also appears to be a Panda on the bed to the left. :shock:

StillGoing

Angrod wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Your hip angle at the top is very tight even for an aero position, suggesting to me that the frame is too big if your saddle height has been set correctly. Judging how little of the seat post is showing, I'd say again that the frame is too big.

I'm 1m76 ( ~5'77 ), and the frame is 54cm. It seemed good to me.
But I didn't know about pros using smaller bikes for a better fit.
Well if the bike's size is wrong, I'm f*cked...
Thanks for your reply, I didn't know hip angle could be a problem, I'll try to learn more about that.

I'm similar height and ride a XS 47cm Reacto with an effective top tube length of 52cm. My bars are slammed with no spacers beneath them with the saddle set at 690mm using 165mm cranks. Seat to bar drop is of around 10cm on the drops. I don't hit my chest with my knees when riding on the drops.

Your CAAD 12 54 has an effective top tube length of nearly 55cm and a seat post length of 57cm. I'd say that you're nearer a 50 or a 52 at worst. To adapt what you have and create less hip angle at the top of the stroke, you could try shorter cranks.

This may be for Triathletes, but it explains the tight hip angle well.
https://youtu.be/skQ_kNhSuK8

Mike at Bike Dynamics has lots of information and a download for self fitting. He also explains about crank lengths.
https://bikedynamics.co.uk/FitGuideTemp.htm