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Stick with Rovals or go for Hunt

Joerend92Joerend92 Posts: 15
edited October 2019 in Road general
Bit of advise please...

Currently have a set of Roval 38C Disc on my
Tarmac and have been investigating whether to buy the Hunt 50mm aero disc Wheelset. Reviews online by different company’s (bias maybe involved) are good but reading people’s opinions on here it is to stay well away?

Am I best sticking with the Roval’s?

Cheers,

Joe
«1

Posts

  • Have a read of Hambini’s site and then have another think.
  • The Rovals are great wheels that are at least as good as the Hunts.
    The DT Swiss hubs on the Rovals are better quality than the Novatec ones on the Hunts.
    As stated above, Hambini found that Hunt wheels are some of the least aero deep wheels out there so they're probably no more aero than the Rovals despite the extra depth.
  • redvisionredvision Posts: 2,519
    Save your money, Rovals are very good wheelsets.

    MF will be along shortly I'm sure to give you his opinion on hunt wheels :lol:
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,571
    redvision wrote:
    Save your money, Rovals are very good wheelsets.

    MF will be along shortly I'm sure to give you his opinion on hunt wheels :lol:


    :D

    Rovals. No brainer.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 3,453
    What's the issue with Hunt?
  • Wow. Just read the hambinis article. Great what abit of marketing can do!

    Will stick with the rovals.

    Cheers
  • ibr17xviiibr17xvii Posts: 290
    https://www.hambini.com/blog/post/bicyc ... s-fastest/

    Must admit I've considered Hunt wheels & very nearly pulled the trigger at one point but after reading this thankful I didn't.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 3,453
    ibr17xvii wrote:
    https://www.hambini.com/blog/post/bicycle-wheel-aerodynamics-which-one-is-fastest/

    Must admit I've considered Hunt wheels & very nearly pulled the trigger at one point but after reading this thankful I didn't.
    Oh that guy. Who fronts a team of otherwise anonymous aerospace engineers who have access to dozens of high end wheelsets and hundreds of hours of their employer's wind tunnel time for free?

    I don't doubt that he's explaining the principles correctly, and using this as a forum for pointing out flaws in manufacturing claims.

    Perhaps he did some in silico work based on rim shapes. Who knows.
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    I thought he was doing it at Bristol Uni wind tunnel with the help of post grad students. I would think there's not shortage of cyclist engineers who would give up a few hours to learn how to do wind tunel testing on bike parts...

    What's slightly bizzare from Hambinis results is that I was under the impression that the Hunt wheels were just generic Chinese rims with some slightly fancy marketing behind them, whereas the results suggest they perform noticeably worse than other wheels with generic rims.

    I think the biggest takeaway from the hambini tests are- generally the deeper rim the better (not exactly a stunning revelation) , the tyre interface is key (something that has been given a bit of thought from manufacturers at times) and that wind tunnel testing is madly complicated.

    As far as doing simulation instead of testing, I doubt most manufacturers have the money to hire a capable team of cfd engineers, and a capable super computer.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 3,453
    If he was using a university wind tunnel, there'd be an academic publication. Universities are businesses as well you know. If they were postgrads at least one of them would be able to write a coherent report... perhaps not. If by "supercomputer" you are referring what is now referred to as "laptop", them yes.
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    If he was using a university wind tunnel, there'd be an academic publication. Universities are businesses as well you know. If they were postgrads at least one of them would be able to write a coherent report... perhaps not. If by "supercomputer" you are referring what is now referred to as "laptop", them yes.

    I'm not sure that there are going to be that many academic publications looking for a report on bicycle aerodynamics which just compares brands... Listening to his videos it suggests that this testing is fall out from a colleague doing an ironman and it all getting a bit out of hand.

    I'm not sure a person on a bike in unsteady flow conditions is a laptop sized problem...You could chuck together something in ansys discovery live that would look pretty though. Again, you could probably get it to give you the general trends of deeper rim better, but just looking at the tyre/rim interface, I don't think youd have much luck trying to mesh in 3d on a reasonable laptop, let alone running a simulation.

    Yes you can simplify the problem down somewhat, I still think to do the number of runs, with the detail required to investigate the full system interactions, you're looking at a serious set up.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 3,453
    Jez mon wrote:
    If he was using a university wind tunnel, there'd be an academic publication. Universities are businesses as well you know. If they were postgrads at least one of them would be able to write a coherent report... perhaps not. If by "supercomputer" you are referring what is now referred to as "laptop", them yes.

    I'm not sure that there are going to be that many academic publications looking for a report on bicycle aerodynamics which just compares brands... Listening to his videos it suggests that this testing is fall out from a colleague doing an ironman and it all getting a bit out of hand.

    I'm not sure a person on a bike in unsteady flow conditions is a laptop sized problem...You could chuck together something in ansys discovery live that would look pretty though. Again, you could probably get it to give you the general trends of deeper rim better, but just looking at the tyre/rim interface, I don't think youd have much luck trying to mesh in 3d on a reasonable laptop, let alone running a simulation.

    Yes you can simplify the problem down somewhat, I still think to do the number of runs, with the detail required to investigate the full system interactions, you're looking at a serious set up.
    Kind of my point. Why would a university grant expensive facility access for something of no academic interest? Why would an aerospace company allow access to costly facilities for work with no commercial benefit? I read "out of hand" to be "awkward questions". The summary of his conclusions are so much "yes, they do censored in the woods" as to make one wonder whether anything actually took place. I mean really, you did loads of groundbreaking aero testing and came up with what everyone who reads cycling weekly already knew?
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,582
    ^^^^THIS^^^^

    I watched two videos and thought this dude is either looking for fame via social media hits or is just a nutter, regardless of right or wrong analysis
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    Kind of my point. Why would a university grant expensive facility access for something of no academic interest? Why would an aerospace company allow access to costly facilities for work with no commercial benefit? I read "out of hand" to be "awkward questions". The summary of his conclusions are so much "yes, they do censored in the woods" as to make one wonder whether anything actually took place. I mean really, you did loads of groundbreaking aero testing and came up with what everyone who reads cycling weekly already knew?

    Because engineers are nerds?

    If I was being unkind to him, I'd say he might lack the imagination to make the test data up.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • joey54321joey54321 Posts: 1,297
    itboffin wrote:
    ^^^^THIS^^^^

    I watched two videos and thought this dude is either looking for fame via social media hits or is just a nutter, regardless of right or wrong analysis


    I agree, I disregard anything Hambini says now. He may be right, I dont know. But the way he comes across, his belittling or others and from things I've read his processes arent exactly bullet proof.

    I'd say stick with your current wheels, spending the money on a turbo trainer, a coach or a training plan would likely make you faster.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 3,453
    itboffin wrote:
    ^^^^THIS^^^^

    I watched two videos and thought this dude is either looking for fame via social media hits or is just a nutter, regardless of right or wrong analysis
    Me too. I struggle to believe that anyone could make a serious written or verbal attempt to explain something in layman's terms so badly without it being intentional obfuscation.

    I had a rather spirited discussion with him on here where I basically challenged him to provide anything other than the output from an excel spreadsheet that a moderately cunning 15 year old could create, to suggest that he'd used a piece of scientific equipment. He he could have cut and pasted part of a tcx file and called it data and some halfwits would have been convinced and shouted me down.

    Instead he said English was his second language and accused me of racism.
  • itboffin wrote:
    ^^^^THIS^^^^

    I watched two videos and thought this dude is either looking for fame via social media hits or is just a nutter, regardless of right or wrong analysis

    I’m just waiting for him to get sued by Cervelo. He totally overstepped the mark on one of his latest videos.

    I notice he’s now trying to weasel in on GCN.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 3,453
    Jez mon wrote:
    Because engineers are nerds?

    If I was being unkind to him, I'd say he might lack the imagination to make the test data up.
    No I think that's exactly what he did, but in an informed way that is vaguely credible if you squint.

    Don't get me wrong. He making some valid points and he's certainly an engineer. But how gullible do you have to be to think he borrowed 50 plus sets of wheels and ran 100s hours of wind tunnel tests with a group of colleagues in his spare time without the world hearing from any of them and without having to pay for the facilities, or affording to pay for the facilities - you chose your preferred fiction. Jesus I couldn't even borrow a hoover from an aerospace company or a university without paying for it.

    Come on now, apply some common sense.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 3,453
    itboffin wrote:
    ^^^^THIS^^^^

    I watched two videos and thought this dude is either looking for fame via social media hits or is just a nutter, regardless of right or wrong analysis

    I’m just waiting for him to get sued by Cervelo. He totally overstepped the mark on one of his latest videos.

    I notice he’s now trying to weasel in on GCN.
    Why would they bother suing an individual?

    He's actually quite good on that GCN video about bearing stresses. But again .he makes explaining the concept of hard ceramic balls in a soft bearing race sound way more complex than it actually is. Really, it's as complex as rock blunts scissors, but with a full 5 minute explanation.

    That's bike tech for you in a nutshell.
  • I had some wheels, I was quite slow, I bought some other wheels, I am still quite slow.

    I have no engineering degree, no wind tunnel, but after a night on the ale I can generate lots of wind.

    I was on the first hovercraft crossing between Wales and England, Rhyl to The Wirral, 1961, I still have the certificate.

    I still don't know why Princess Michael of Kent has a man's name.
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,582
    So back on topic (I know) a couple of people in my club have hunt wheels and really rate them and there customer service, mind you our secretary and founder plus the owner of the LBS rates them as average plus good marketing
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    Jez mon wrote:
    Because engineers are nerds?

    If I was being unkind to him, I'd say he might lack the imagination to make the test data up.
    No I think that's exactly what he did, but in an informed way that is vaguely credible if you squint.

    Don't get me wrong. He making some valid points and he's certainly an engineer. But how gullible do you have to be to think he borrowed 50 plus sets of wheels and ran 100s hours of wind tunnel tests with a group of colleagues in his spare time without the world hearing from any of them and without having to pay for the facilities, or affording to pay for the facilities - you chose your preferred fiction. Jesus I couldn't even borrow a hoover from an aerospace company or a university without paying for it.

    Come on now, apply some common sense.

    I can imagine the culture at airbus may still be that of a public sector company and that some engineers may get carried away. Cycling is also practically compulsory amongst engineers these days (or at least it feels like it in my office).

    I also find it more believable that an airbus engineer would get away with dicking around in wind tunnel in this way, compared with say, anyone working in the supply chain.

    I think that the lack of legal action against hambini is interesting, given how litigious some bike brands have been in the past. If I was in flo's position and genuinely thought these tests were fictional, I think I'd be taking legal action.

    So I don't think it's inconceivable that the tests are genuine, more data or a picture/video of the set up would be nice though.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 3,453
    itboffin wrote:
    So back on topic (I know) a couple of people in my club have hunt wheels and really rate them and there customer service, mind you our secretary and founder plus the owner of the LBS rates them as average plus good marketing
    They are completely standard bits in a fancy frock, but they seem as well selected as anyone else's, the fancy frock isn't that expensive and you get decent customer service.

    My cassette bit into my freehub. I asked them which one I should order and they just sent me a new one. So they seem to understand that past customers are future customers.

    If you understand what you are getting, I don't have an issue with any of that.
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,571
    Rovals. By a mile.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,571
    itboffin wrote:
    So back on topic (I know) a couple of people in my club have hunt wheels and really rate them and there customer service, mind you our secretary and founder plus the owner of the LBS rates them as average plus good marketing

    well, having been sucked in by a load of marketing and spent a grand on a set of wheels you're not likely to turn around and say "errr, actually they're a bit average and I've been mugged" are you?

    remember fellas, don't get mugged.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 3,453
    itboffin wrote:
    So back on topic (I know) a couple of people in my club have hunt wheels and really rate them and there customer service, mind you our secretary and founder plus the owner of the LBS rates them as average plus good marketing

    well, having been sucked in by a load of marketing and spent a grand on a set of wheels you're not likely to turn around and say "errr, actually they're a bit average and I've been mugged" are you?

    remember fellas, don't get mugged.
    What is the difference between these and a set of hand built wheels with Chinese rims, off the shelf hubs (bitex or dt swiss if you want) and off the shelf spokes, marketed with your surname? I'd call them "Aspects" obviously, although it would be better if I had a surname like a Star Trek baddie.

    I don't get the fuss.
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,582
    the only wheelset i've ever had issues with are my handbuilt stans alpha and that's because I spec'd them out to be super light without the slightest knowledge of what components work together, all my other wheelsets are either stock Shimano or Campag low end stuff mostly, i'm happy will all of them from a price / performance point of view. No amount of money spent on bling wheels is going to make that much difference to my riding abilities, I suspect most people are in the same boat and if there really truthful with themselves they know it too, that said if you want to bling your bike and or have the latest tech/fashion then go for it ...you're worth it ;-)
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • slowmartslowmart Posts: 3,809
    4 years on a set of Rovals which have never missed a beat.

    They spin up really quickly, hold speed and look the dogs, lastly going down hill with mates, a couple of which are heavier, I always end up free wheeling past them which I can only put down to the wheels.
    And God created the bicycle, so that man could use it as a means for work and to help him negotiate life's complicated journey.
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,571
    itboffin wrote:
    So back on topic (I know) a couple of people in my club have hunt wheels and really rate them and there customer service, mind you our secretary and founder plus the owner of the LBS rates them as average plus good marketing

    well, having been sucked in by a load of marketing and spent a grand on a set of wheels you're not likely to turn around and say "errr, actually they're a bit average and I've been mugged" are you?

    remember fellas, don't get mugged.
    What is the difference between these and a set of hand built wheels with Chinese rims, off the shelf hubs (bitex or dt swiss if you want) and off the shelf spokes, marketed with your surname? I'd call them "Aspects" obviously, although it would be better if I had a surname like a Star Trek baddie.

    I don't get the fuss.

    the hunts are twice the price, thats the issue.

    if they were the same price as all the numerous other sets of wheels that are made from the same parts by the same people in the same factory in china then they would be fine.


    as it is, you're paying top dollar for an average product.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 3,453
    itboffin wrote:
    So back on topic (I know) a couple of people in my club have hunt wheels and really rate them and there customer service, mind you our secretary and founder plus the owner of the LBS rates them as average plus good marketing

    well, having been sucked in by a load of marketing and spent a grand on a set of wheels you're not likely to turn around and say "errr, actually they're a bit average and I've been mugged" are you?

    remember fellas, don't get mugged.
    What is the difference between these and a set of hand built wheels with Chinese rims, off the shelf hubs (bitex or dt swiss if you want) and off the shelf spokes, marketed with your surname? I'd call them "Aspects" obviously, although it would be better if I had a surname like a Star Trek baddie.

    I don't get the fuss.

    the hunts are twice the price, thats the issue.

    if they were the same price as all the numerous other sets of wheels that are made from the same parts by the same people in the same factory in china then they would be fine.

    as it is, you're paying top dollar for an average product.
    Fair enough. But the last time I was shopping for wheels I priced up a set of "Aspects" and they came in at £1300 which seemed poor value for the rims I would have been getting. I went for a set of Xentis instead. Also hand built, but proprietary rims made in Europe. £1200. Comparable Mavics were a similar price, when I got those a year or so later. Seems that which ever way you slice it, if you are based in Europe the maths comes out more or less the same.

    The most expensive thing I can find on the Hunt website are some £1400 wheels with carbon spokes, they also sell a £1100 wheelset and next up are at the £850 range. I've not compared specs, I have to be honest, as I've only bought some cheaper ones for the commute. But that pricing seems about par to me. What's the issue - crappy free hubs? Or did yours come out of true or something?
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