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Bike for Commute/Woods 1k

SmirSmir Posts: 4
edited October 2019 in MTB buying advice
Little Info - Hardtrail
Ideally after something that I can use to commute, but also take down the woods nothing to serious, would end up killing myself, but I hope to build up a bit of confidence and maybe get a bit quicker, just something that won't break on my first ride. I'm really leaning towards Whyte.

Budget - 1k~
I will be buying via the Cycle 2 Work Scheme, budget around £1k ish willing to go higher for something that will work right for me, I'm 6.1 and pushing over 19 St, hoping this little push will get me a little fitter and slimmer. So need a semi decent fork, I think I've read Air is best for me?

Info
Not to sure if I want a 29/27.5/26 I guess I'd like a 29er just because I've never had one, but don't think Whyte do them.
just the same I'm not sure if I need a 1x or a 2x? I like the idea of a 1x as it's less to go wrong, but am open.


Here's a kinda list In which I'm thinking so far...

Fathom 1/2 Talon 1 or maybe the 2019 models? or maybe from the ones below

Whyte 605 v2 £750 no Air Fork? this might be the best one to start me off though maybe?
TREK X-CALIBER 8 £850 Air Fork / Single - Doesn't look to bad?
TREK ROSCOE 7 £950 air fork/single gear
Cube Attention SL £900
Giant Talon 1 27.5/29 £799 single speed/air fork - any good?
Orange Zest 26 £1000 Although a new one coming out next month?
Orange Clockwork £1100 29/11/19
Whyte 801 £899 /805 would a 901 be worth the extra £400?

I hope I've added enough information, look forward to some options, as I'm currently clueless!

Posts

  • Do you need a suspension fork, unsure from your text if you are planning to go fully off-road and try some harder trails or you are just riding through woods on a gravel path. Suspension forks add a lot of weight and cost to a bike and may need regular maintenance and repair with a heavy rider. Fair enough if you are planning serious off-roading but for light trails you don't need it.

    At 19 stone you are about 120kg which is beyond the rider weight limit of some brands so I would check with any brand you are considering that they allow for riders of that weight, many european brands don't, but most US brands do. Giant for example rates its bikes up to 160kg total load with 136kg (300lbs) for the rider and with a lifetime warranty on frames and forks (non-suspension). Decathlon rate most of their bikes to 100kg total load including the bike weight. Beyond that I would still favour a bike better setup for heavier riders anyway just to make your entry to cycling as easy and hassle free as possible.

    Understand that the larger the wheel the more overbuilt it has to be to have the same strength as a smaller wheel. I.e. a 26" wheel with 28 spokes could be as strong as a 27.5" wheel with 32 spokes or a 29" wheel with 36 spokes.

    Also much bike engineering is into making bikes lighter which costs money to engineer. More expensive bikes aren't necessarily stronger I would say on average road bikes get weaker with decreased safety as they go up in price but the same general rule doesn't apply as cleanly with mountain bikes. There are weak, poor bikes at entry level prices but then they get quite strong quite quickly and then they get weaker as they get lighter.

    Halfords Carrera Subway bikes are great bikes for heavier riders who want to commute but also do a bit of basic off-roading. Then the market gets a bit more confusing as you go up in price, maybe the Kona Unit or Unit X would be a good option if one is available in your size or price range.

    Hard to really advise as I'm not sure how seriously you intend to ride off-road and if you really do need a suspension fork.
  • SmirSmir Posts: 4
    Do you need a suspension fork, unsure from your text if you are planning to go fully off-road and try some harder trails or you are just riding through woods on a gravel path. Suspension forks add a lot of weight and cost to a bike and may need regular maintenance and repair with a heavy rider. Fair enough if you are planning serious off-roading but for light trails you don't need it.
    I'd ideally like a suspension fork, the woods around my area has some nice jumps/routes so once I got a bit comfy, I wouldn't mind trying them. I think to start and to get me a bit fitter just light trails, but I'll have this bike a minimum of 18 months, via the scheme, Ideally would like to keep it after and not think ok now I need to upgrade it.
    At 19 stone you are about 120kg which is beyond the rider weight limit of some brands so I would check with any brand you are considering that they allow for riders of that weight, many european brands don't, but most US brands do. Giant for example rates its bikes up to 160kg total load with 136kg (300lbs) for the rider and with a lifetime warranty on frames and forks (non-suspension). Decathlon rate most of their bikes to 100kg total load including the bike weight. Beyond that I would still favour a bike better setup for heavier riders anyway just to make your entry to cycling as easy and hassle free as possible.
    I've done so much research and not come across any limits, do Whyte have any limits? Giant/Whyte are both the brands I'm really kneen on
    Understand that the larger the wheel the more overbuilt it has to be to have the same strength as a smaller wheel. I.e. a 26" wheel with 28 spokes could be as strong as a 27.5" wheel with 32 spokes or a 29" wheel with 36 spokes.
    So any size would be ideal then really?
    Also much bike engineering is into making bikes lighter which costs money to engineer. More expensive bikes aren't necessarily stronger I would say on average road bikes get weaker with decreased safety as they go up in price but the same general rule doesn't apply as cleanly with mountain bikes. There are weak, poor bikes at entry level prices but then they get quite strong quite quickly and then they get weaker as they get lighter.
    I see so the top end bikes will have a stronger frame, but also lighter I guess? I'm not too fussed about the weight of the bike, will do me good if its got some weight to it.

    thanks for replying
  • Smir wrote:
    Do you need a suspension fork, unsure from your text if you are planning to go fully off-road and try some harder trails or you are just riding through woods on a gravel path. Suspension forks add a lot of weight and cost to a bike and may need regular maintenance and repair with a heavy rider. Fair enough if you are planning serious off-roading but for light trails you don't need it.
    I'd ideally like a suspension fork, the woods around my area has some nice jumps/routes so once I got a bit comfy, I wouldn't mind trying them. I think to start and to get me a bit fitter just light trails, but I'll have this bike a minimum of 18 months, via the scheme, Ideally would like to keep it after and not think ok now I need to upgrade it.
    At 19 stone you are about 120kg which is beyond the rider weight limit of some brands so I would check with any brand you are considering that they allow for riders of that weight, many european brands don't, but most US brands do. Giant for example rates its bikes up to 160kg total load with 136kg (300lbs) for the rider and with a lifetime warranty on frames and forks (non-suspension). Decathlon rate most of their bikes to 100kg total load including the bike weight. Beyond that I would still favour a bike better setup for heavier riders anyway just to make your entry to cycling as easy and hassle free as possible.
    I've done so much research and not come across any limits, do Whyte have any limits? Giant/Whyte are both the brands I'm really kneen on
    Understand that the larger the wheel the more overbuilt it has to be to have the same strength as a smaller wheel. I.e. a 26" wheel with 28 spokes could be as strong as a 27.5" wheel with 32 spokes or a 29" wheel with 36 spokes.
    So any size would be ideal then really?
    Also much bike engineering is into making bikes lighter which costs money to engineer. More expensive bikes aren't necessarily stronger I would say on average road bikes get weaker with decreased safety as they go up in price but the same general rule doesn't apply as cleanly with mountain bikes. There are weak, poor bikes at entry level prices but then they get quite strong quite quickly and then they get weaker as they get lighter.
    I see so the top end bikes will have a stronger frame, but also lighter I guess? I'm not too fussed about the weight of the bike, will do me good if its got some weight to it.

    thanks for replying

    Fair enough about the suspension, I wasn't sure if you actually need it but clearly you do. It does add a lot of weight, sometimes up to 3kg to the bike, you lose some cycling efficiency and they do need maintenance from time to time so if you don't need it its best to avoid them.

    You need to download the instruction manuals in pdf for the brand you are considering that would normally include the weight limits of the bike which do vary. Many brand bikes are not designed to take a rider of 120kg but many are. Typical european brands are around 120kg total load which includes the bike weight, your clothing, luggage, accessories etc. From the lowest weight limits to the highest is about a 60kg difference. If you buy a bike rated to 100kg total load and you ride it at 120kg plus the bike weight and other accessories that could be 140kg which is 40% over the weight limit of the bike. It won't fail immediately but you have massively increased the fatigue rate of a aluminium frame and could fail within 2 years of buying rather than its normally lifespan which is probably a minimum of 7-10 years. If the frame fails in traffic you could be dropped in front of an articulated lorry. It's easy to think that because it's taken your weight on the first day, week or month that it's fine but that isn't how fatigue works.

    With regard the wheels as 26" wheels also come in 36 spoke size they are potentially the strongest wheels for their price point. If you went for a 29" wheels of reasonable quality with lets say 32 spokes those wheels are more likely to go out of true or snap spokes with your weight than similar wheels that are 27.5" or 26".

    The idea that you can make something signficantly lighter and also stronger is typical cyclist mentality but that isn't really true most of the time, typically bikes get weaker as you use butted tubing rather than straight gauge tubing or drill holes into components and minimise the amount of metal used. The art of it is to do so without losing strength where it matters but it's still a weaker frame or component. I've seen top tubes of lightweight frames that damage easily if the bike falls over because little strength is needed there for normal use, a cheaper frame may have used a straight gauge cheaper top tube that is resistant to such impacts. As a heavy person I would focus on a strong bike rather than a light bike. You have a reasonable budget but I would suggest you would be better off with a basic heavier frame and better components rather than a lighter frame with weaker components.

    If you look at Shimano road bike groupsets, all the tourney and below components are fairly poor including weak freewheels that aren't great for heavier riders but then you get to Claris which is surprisingly strong and reliable and then as you move up the groupsets they get lighter and more optmised for performance but tolerances are more critical as there are more gears and they sometimes don't shift as reliably. Like most things there are diminishing returns when you spend too much and you don't really get much return on spending more money but then it depends on what is important to you.
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,756
    Its Hard TAIL, not trail!

    Which 'cycle to work' scheme, different schemes have different availability so without knowing which one I'll avoid making any suggestions as they may be for bikes you can't get.

    Ignore some of Bonzo's more obvious gaff's.... lots to say not all accurate, clearly doesn't understand beaming and why butted tuning is a good idea, or got much idea about weights of forks.
  • billycoolbillycool Posts: 833
    You should be able to get a decent/sensible HT for c.£1000

    They will most likely have air forks. Most air forks would weigh c.2kg (they do vary based on strength and discipline)

    You generally get 32mm stanchions for XC, 34mm for Enduro/Trail and 36mm for DH. Thicker is usually stronger but heavier. That's not an exact science though. You may benefit from at least 34mm stanchions.

    Maybe get boost wheels?

    26" wheels are an older format (I still have them on both of my bikes). You'd struggle to buy a new bike with them.

    27.5" would probably be fine - there are loads of variations in wheel/rim/spoke strength etc, again loosely based on XC/Enduro/DH.

    Some manufacturers do hide weight limits in the small print, partly to negate warranty claims.

    As for 1x or2x - it's partly personal preference and depends what riding you so. My FS bike has 1x as it works fine for proper off-road MTB. My HT is 2x, as it gets used more of paths, tracks & road and benefits from the bigger chainring at the front.

    I wouldn't worry too much about component level. Most £1000 bikes will have something sensible and you can always upgrade.

    A decent bike shop should be able to give you advice on the sort of set-up that would suit you.
    "Ride, crash, replace"
  • The Rookie wrote:
    Its Hard TAIL, not trail!

    Which 'cycle to work' scheme, different schemes have different availability so without knowing which one I'll avoid making any suggestions as they may be for bikes you can't get.

    Ignore some of Bonzo's more obvious gaff's.... lots to say not all accurate, clearly doesn't understand beaming and why butted tuning is a good idea, or got much idea about weights of forks.


    I certainly don't understand beaming or butted tuning what is that, not heard of those terms and front suspension forks do go up to about 3kg surely no debate there.

    Here is a fork closer to 3.5kg

    https://www.srsuntour.com/products/fork ... -6245.html

    Again nothing I have written is debatable surely if you don't need actually need suspension forks for off-road use then better to have a lighter bike for road use with rigid forks plus still good for simple gravel paths and light trails.

    Is it so difficult to be civil and just state I disagree with Bonzo because of.... rather than act like some sort of angry keyboard warrior/troll? I don't get why grown adults act in such a childish and pathetic way just because someone has a different viewpoint than theirs. You say more obvious gaffs but if the thread starter is new to cycling how is he going to know what the more obvious gaffs are and how can I respond to them without knowing what they are. Just seems like a moronic way to reply to a thread leaving everyone guessing what you mean and trying to be insulting at the same time.
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,756
    clearly doesn't understand beaming and why butted tuning is a good idea, or got much idea about weights of forks.


    I certainly don't understand beaming or butted tuning what is that, not heard of those terms
    [/quote]
    Yet you felt qualifies to condemn it....great.
    front suspension forks do go up to about 3kg surely no debate there.

    Here is a fork closer to 3.5kg
    Yeah you said adding 3kg, rigid forks will typically weigh circa 0.75-1kg while suspension forks (mid range) start at 2.3kg ish, so nowhere near adding 3kg as you said

    I think you just confirmed my observation, thanks.
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