Etiquette meeting ebike on a trail

dabber

Just thinking.....
I'm riding a trail and another faster rider comes up behind me. I'll attempt to let them get past at a suitable point (pull to the side, stop). I get to the end of a section and find that rider is on an ebike. I carry on to the next section but the ebiker has stopped for a moment. After a bit on the next section I realise that ebiker is right behind me and itching to get past......
Would you go out of your way to pull over/stop to let them past? I'm not talking about deliberately obstructing them but would you disrupt your own ride to accomodate them.

Now,I must stress,I haven't had this happen to me and I'm not anti-ebikes just interested in other's views.

reaction57

If a faster rider catches you up and obviously wants to pass surely it's good etiquette to let them pass as soon as it's convenient, what difference does it make if they are on an Ebike ?

steve_sordy

I was toiling up a climb when I heard a rider coming up behind me. I thought to myself that judging by the speed he was doing he was stronger and fitter than me. SO I pulled off the best line and let him pass. Only to see that he was on an emtb! He could easily have waited until I got past the tricky bit. I remember feeling a bit peeved at the time.

That was a year or so ago, and now I have an emtb! (osteo-arthritis in my knees) So I know for sure that he could easily have waited at no discomfort to himself. Good manners cost nothing and it shows that there are arseoles everywhere.

slowbike

steve_sordy wrote:

Good manners cost nothing and it shows that there are arseoles everywhere.

Either that - or they didn't know it was a tricky bit - being new to the area and probably new to MTBing (E or otherwise)

What's clear and obvious to you isn't to everyone else ... but having good manners you let them go past - having disrupted your ride - and then just have a chunter about it later

I'm new to MTB - I don't do much - so if I get in your way (anyone's) - sorry, in advance - I'm not doing it on purpose - I'm just not that quick - up or downhill

dabber

Reaction57 wrote:

If a faster rider catches you up and obviously wants to pass surely it's good etiquette to let them pass as soon as it's convenient, what difference does it make if they are on an Ebike ?

Going faster but not necessarily a faster rider though.
The thing that prompted me was seeing a video of someone riding trails near to me overtaking quite a lot of riders who, in the main, pulled over or stopped for him. I only realised after watching that he was riding an ebike. It was clear that although the rider in question was OK as a rider, he was nothing special and it seemed doubtful that he'd be going faster without the ebike assist. Not sure what my take on it is yet but I'm not sure I'd pull over... I wouldn't want to block him deliberately but go out of my way and stop...probably not.

reaction57

Reaction57 wrote:

If a faster rider catches you up and obviously wants to pass surely it's good etiquette to let them pass as soon as it's convenient, what difference does it make if they are on an Ebike ?

What I should have made clear in my original reply was when it's convenient for BOTH riders.

Clearly any rider that causes unnecessary disruption to another is not being very friendly.

I ride both EBike and Push bike so have been at both ends of the equation.

It's clear we still have some way to go before the prejudice towards EBikes disappears.

whyamihere

I would happily let them past the first time, as I do for any faster rider whether on an e-bike or not, but I would wait for a convenient point (which is the same as what I expect when I catch slower riders). What would annoy me is if they were consistently stopping at the end of a section for a rest for long enough for me to go past and then passing on the next section of trail - Again, this would annoy me equally if they were on an e-bike or not.

steve_sordy

When steam engines first came out and were fitted to boats and ships, they could go in any direction at all and at optimum speed. This used to piss off the wind powered vessels. So they established a rule (guidance, not a law!) "steam gives way to sail". In other words power gives way, because it's easier for them. Similarly, I believe that emtbs should not expect clockwork bikes to move off the riding line just to let them pass.
To emtb riders: By all means ask if you can pass once there is a way through, but don't EXPECT to pass just because you have some extra speed. By the way, that is the same guidance that should apply to all those overtaking. So it's back to manners again.

dabber

Thanks for your views. As a reasonably experienced roadie but a newbie to mtbs (everybody passes me, well not really but...) I thought I'd ask the question.I guess I don't really disagree with most has been posted here.
Going off on a slight tangent.... the last two days I've been travelling up to Calais from southwest France. During those travels I've seen quite a few mtbs on the back of cars on the autoroutes.... the vast majority were emtbs and registered across a variety of countries. If this trend continues I could see that shared trails could become more of a problem with the potential disparity in speed. Thoughts?

steve_sordy

[quote="Dabber".......... the last two days I've been travelling up to Calais from southwest France. During those travels I've seen quite a few mtbs on the back of cars on the autoroutes.... the vast majority were emtbs and registered across a variety of countries. If this trend continues I could see that shared trails could become more of a problem with the potential disparity in speed. Thoughts?[/quote]

My knee problems prompted the purchase of an emtb. I can say that the only time I am faster than anyone else not on an emtb is when I am climbing. I am no faster than I used to be along or down, just up. But now I can do the distances I used to do.

You do know that the power cuts out after 15.7mph don't you? Then you are on a big heavy bike with wide low pressure tyres.......

slowbike

steve_sordy wrote:

When steam engines first came out and were fitted to boats and ships, they could go in any direction at all and at optimum speed. This used to wee-wee off the wind powered vessels. So they established a rule (guidance, not a law!) "steam gives way to sail". In other words power gives way, because it's easier for them.

Er - not quite sure how the Colregs evolved ... but Power/Steam Gives way to Sail isn't right - There are plenty of circumstances when a sail powered vessel must give way to a steam powered vessel - the one pertinent to this thread is overtaking - where it doesn't matter how you're powered - the overtaking vessel must give way - of course, there will be exceptions to that - narrow channels being one of them...

The Rookie

As always it's about being sensible, and as human beings are involved that isn't a given.

If someone is catching you from behind you have no idea if it's someone on a single speed who may struggle if they have to go to slowly or someone on an ebike who could happily hang around until it's convenient, If I catch someone and am happy to sit behind I'll tell them not to stop rather than leaving them trying to guess.

billycool

If someone on any bike catches me, I will try and pull over when possible.

If I'm on a fast section, then they'll have to wait.

If we keep leapfrogging each other and said bike keeps catching me, I'd aim to try and keep them in front of me for the next sections. Even if that means waiting a bit longer or `suggesting` that they go first. Better for both of us. I've also had that with non-ebikes.

Whether it is an ebike is sort of irrelevant. If they are abusing that fact or being a bit pushy, then I may feel more aggrieved. I've also had non-ebikers ride my rear wheel and that is just as unecessary.

I've been caught on the flat and climbs by ebikes but never on a downhill piece, so my flow (and the most enjoyable bits for me) are not comprimised. I've yet to experience any issues in that respect.

I just think there needs to be some awareness and common sense used, so that we don't find another excuse to give ebikes a hard time. ebike or not, it is the rider that makes the choices.

Lagrange

If someone approaches me from behind then they can overtake me without me doing anything. If I'm on a narrow trail / singletrack then I'll get out the way. If I'm on single track I'll be concentrating on the ground and won't know if it is an e bike or a proper bike.

steve_sordy

Lagrange wrote:

............... If I'm on single track I'll be concentrating on the ground and won't know if it is an e bike or a proper bike.

You can hear many of them, some not so much.

dabber

steve_sordy wrote:

Lagrange wrote:

............... If I'm on single track I'll be concentrating on the ground and won't know if it is an e bike or a proper bike.

You can hear many of them, some not so much.

Interestingly, earlier in this thread I referred to watching a video of someone riding an emtb and that I never realised initially it was an emtb. At the first viewing I had the sound turned off. On a second I had the sound on and that's what alerted to me tothe fact that it was an emtb.. on the video it was pretty noisy.

Back to the original question.... I can't disagree and it's all down to give and take. Certainly so far on my limited time on the trails I've tried to be helpful and considerate and I've only received politeness and pleasantness from the folks I've let pass. On the other hand, I wouldn't take any sh*t from anyone who tried to unreasonably pressure me.
For those who have let me pass them I've made sure I thanked them and on occasion told them I'm fine behind them and not to bother stopping whilst at the same sitting back from them a bit.

The Rookie

steve_sordy wrote:

Lagrange wrote:

............... If I'm on single track I'll be concentrating on the ground and won't know if it is an e bike or a proper bike.

You can hear many of them, some not so much.

I can ride right next to my mates Spesh ebike (Bosch mid mount) and not know if he's running assist or not

steve_sordy

The Rookie wrote:

steve_sordy wrote:

Lagrange wrote:

............... If I'm on single track I'll be concentrating on the ground and won't know if it is an e bike or a proper bike.

You can hear many of them, some not so much.

I can ride right next to my mates Spesh ebike (Bosch mid mount) and not know if he's running assist or not

I believe that you mean Brose, not Bosch. Brose motors are very quiet, the 2019 onwards motors are spookily quiet. I have not heard one of the latest generation 2020 Bosch motors, but the previous Bosch were noisy and draggy. A Bosch motor previously ruled out an emtb for me, but maybe not in future.

Specialized may have claimed their "all new design motor" for themselves (they make no mention of any motor manufacturer in their blurb), but I'm sure that it is an upgraded Brose motor. Likewise Giant claim the breathed on Yamaha motor for themselves. They may have done deals with the original motor manufacturers to have special designs just for them.

The Rookie

I may well do mean Brose, it's a an ebike so I'm currently not that interested in the specifics! But yes it's very quiet.

davep1

whyamihere wrote:

I would happily let them past the first time, as I do for any faster rider whether on an e-bike or not, but I would wait for a convenient point (which is the same as what I expect when I catch slower riders). What would annoy me is if they were consistently stopping at the end of a section for a rest for long enough for me to go past and then passing on the next section of trail - Again, this would annoy me equally if they were on an e-bike or not.

I agree with this, if anyone is faster than me, I will happily let them go, whether it is off road or on. But if they keep stopping just in front of me, then they can't expect me to keep putting myself out for them. On those rare occasions when I pass someone, I keep going for a good while after and hopefully we will have gone our separate ways before I need to stop.

I've had people approach from behind and shout "Out of the way, I'm on a segment" - they can feck off!

steve_sordy

DaveP1 wrote:

........................I've had people approach from behind and shout "Out of the way, I'm on a segment" - they can feck off!

I 100% agree with that.
And I ride an emtb!

That behaviour is the action of an ill-mannered lout!

The Rookie

I'm happy for mates to do it who I'm riding with, not strangers.

johnmcl7

Reaction57 wrote:

If a faster rider catches you up and obviously wants to pass surely it's good etiquette to let them pass as soon as it's convenient, what difference does it make if they are on an Ebike ?

My thoughts exactly although I will say I feel a bit of relief when it's an ebike rider overtaking me on a hill climb rather than a rider on pedal power who is just plain faster than me

After riding on and off with a few ebikers in our group I don't have any issue with them at all and I don't agree with the concern that ebikers are going to destroy shared trails as it's going to make them more accessible. The technical difficulty of riding trails means casual riders are not going to be riding them and the bikers I've cycled with are all decent riders who for health reasons can't ride normal bikes so continue to come out on ebikes instead. Mountain biking isn't all about power either aside from the hill climbs, on technical sections it's down to the rider and ebike riders may well be slower.