UK all-weather commuter

CheeseToastie

Hello,

Looking to upgrade to my first road bike. Looking in the sub-£1000 range to qualify for cycle to work.

As I'm going to be commuting year round in the UK rain (200+ days a year probably) I'm thinking disc brakes are pretty much a must? Otherwise I was thinking of an Allez Elite. Will be commuting best part of 18 miles a day with lots of hills and urban sections.

For the budget I've found the Cannondale Synapse AL Disc (105), Giant Contend sl1 disc (105), Ribble Endurance AL Disc (Tiagra).

What do you think? All have mudguard/pannier racks (as far as I know). I won't be able to find a shop in which I can try all of them so wondering what the thoughts are based on either experience or reviews/specs alone.

Cheers in advance!

helterskelter

I wouldn’t overlook rim brakes bikes which are a lot easier to maintain than disc brakes if you’re covering a lot of miles. I’d also be looking at a bsa threaded bottom bracket, easy and cheap to replace and more robust than the press fit options.

CheeseToastie

I thought I was all set on the Allez Elite but then people kept saying I need discs in the UK rain. But then saying mech discs are no better than good rim brakes and need hydros. Well now I'm just more confused than ever really. I can stick 105 v brakes on the Allez for 60 quid- will they out perform a cheap tekro mech disc? The Giant contend has a fancy semi hydro setup is it any good?

veronese68

Discs being harder to maintain is nonsense unless you don’t know what you’re doing with them. Main advantages are more consistent braking in wet weather and no rim wear. I wore out a set of rims in 2 years commuting in all weather. I’ve been on discs for 5 years and only had to replace a rim when someone drove into my back wheel.
A colleague has the Giant semi-hydraulic thing and is happy with it.
I started on mechanical discs, bit better than the rim brakes but had to adjust them to compensate for pad wear occasionally. This takes moments and is no hardship. Downside was I had a very slightly warped disc on the rear and I could feel a slight pulsing at the lever. I then found a heavily discounted ex-demo Parabox converter, similar to the Giant thing. This was an improvement in feel and also eliminating the need to adjust the cable to compensate for wear. It also got rid of the slight pulsing. I recently upgraded to full hydraulic as once again I found a heavily discounted setup. To be honest it was unnecessary, but the groupset was 5 years old and a bit tired. It works really well and looks neater than the converter,
Would I buy a rim brake bike? Yes, but not for all weather use.

photonic69

At 3600 miles per year commuting in all weather and a hilly route would wear out rims pretty quick.
If I was looking for It I’d go for something with Tiagra groupset (cheap to replace cos things will wear out); hydraulic discs; square taper bottom bracket as these are bomb proof and cheap/easy to replace. Now just find a bike with the above and you are set to go

janwal

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXLDNRI ... ad-rival22
Covers all your needs. Or you can get 1x11 versions cheaper if you prefer. Will give you all the gears you need for commuting.

amrushton

Condors disc fratello? Planet x prob best bang for buck

CheeseToastie

I've had a look but I don't think planet x is supported through my ctw scheme :-/

janwal

Can you have Halfords Ctw scheme?
https://www.halfords.com/cycling/bikes/ ... nture-bike
Excellent reviews. Tiagra hydraulic brakes,excellent tyres,Takes guards etc. Boardman do make very good value bikes.
If you have cycling uk membership you can get 10% off.
https://www.cyclinguk.org/membership-types.

timothyw

Dolan RDX.

mrfpb

Both Planet X and Merlin add on a 10% "service charge" if your using bike to work schemes. Halfords allow 10% British Cycling discount, which makes Boardman options more attractive.

joe_totale-2

In my experience C2W schemes aren't actually that great value unless you're willing to stay in the scheme for another few years, depending on the scheme.

Lots of retailers offer interest free credit so that could be worth a look at if you haven't got the money to buy a bike up front or wish to split the cost over a period of time.

redvision

PhotoNic69 wrote:

At 3600 miles per year commuting in all weather and a hilly route would wear out rims pretty quick.

Simply not true.
Up until last year I commuted a very hilly 44 mile round commute 3 times a week, in all weathers. I had a set of fulcrum 7s which cost me about £120 when I bought them and I covered over 10000 miles before they needed replacing (due to rim wear).

Unless you are constantly on the brakes and never clean the rims/ brake pads then rim brakes are perfectly fine for any commute.

timothyw

mrfpb wrote:

Both Planet X and Merlin add on a 10% "service charge" if your using bike to work schemes. Halfords allow 10% British Cycling discount, which makes Boardman options more attractive.

Planet X don't participate in any voucher cycle schemes anymore - https://www.planetx.co.uk/cycle-scheme

If your employer will deal direct then they will happily take the money, but most of these schemes expect the retailer to take a price hit on the sale, hence the retailers who add an extra 10% to the price to offset both this and the other admin costs incurred - it's basically only the big boys (Wiggle, Halfords etc) who don't charge a fee on cyclescheme purchases.

I suspect this is because the big boys have been able to negotiate lower fees with the scheme providers.

While 0% purchase options/credit cards can be a quicker way to get the bike, and give you more choice, unless you are really poor at maths you'll note that even with a 10% surcharge up front, you are still paying less with a cycle to work scheme (even if you are silly and take the ownership option after one year...), potentially hugely less if you are a high earner.

https://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/calculator

Of course, counterbalancing this, it does make it potentially harder for you to change jobs as you might need to pay off any outstanding balance at that point, and you'll very occasionally hear rumours of employers screwing those staff who have taken up cyclescheme (asking for their bikes back, given the bikes are technically property of your employer until the year is up).

bonzo_banana

If you want an all-round commuter bike whatever the weather I would of thought hub gears and hub brakes are a must plus I would look to fully enclose the chain if it didn't come that way. Takes the fun out of cycling if you have to keep cleaning and lubing the bike after every ride, when you get to work and when you get home. Best bike I can remember for commuting is the Carrera Subway 8 with Nexus 8 and Shimano hub brakes but you still get bikes configured for all weather commuters like that. A quick google shows this bike.

https://www.discountcyclesdirect.co.uk/ ... 5cQAvD_BwE

Dutch bikes and easy riding bikes are often configured with a fully enclosed chain and hub brakes and gears but like the Merida there are some more sporty options.

What's the point of going for a more sporty faster derailleur/disc based road bike for commuting if you will be spending much more time maintaining and cleaning the bike so any speed gains are lost on servicing and repairing your bike. The calipers of disc brakes are still exposed to the rain, it's an external brake system. They brake in the wet fine but water ingress still gets into the caliper.

Another simple all-weather commuting bike is a fixed gear bike with a fully enclosed chain. The gearing is essentially your rear brake so cannot fail in the wet and the front brake can be any type basically as the rear brake is probably the wet brake.

They may be harder to find but bikes with hub gears and disc brakes are definitely available as probably the most common pre-configured all weather commuting bike.

timothyw

I'm intrigued as to how water ingress can cause problems with a hydraulic disk brake system.

Surely the same seals that keep the hydraulic fluid in also keep water out?

You don't need to clean your drivetrain every time it gets wet. You just need to top up the lube more regularly (carry a small bottle with you and you can lube as soon as it gets noisy), and probably change the chain more often (buy a wear checker if you don't have one... keep a spare new chain on the shelf)

photonic69

redvision wrote:

PhotoNic69 wrote:

At 3600 miles per year commuting in all weather and a hilly route would wear out rims pretty quick.

Simply not true.
Up until last year I commuted a very hilly 44 mile round commute 3 times a week, in all weathers. I had a set of fulcrum 7s which cost me about £120 when I bought them and I covered over 10000 miles before they needed replacing (due to rim wear).

Unless you are constantly on the brakes and never clean the rims/ brake pads then rim brakes are perfectly fine for any commute.

I beg to differ - My Giant Defy rims wore out in around 3000 miles and that was just on club runs, not commuting, but in all weathers. I kept it bike meticulously clean and used SwissStop Blue pads exclusively. It is particularly hilly around these parts. I guess it depends on the rims themselves. For a trouble free commuter I'd go with discs every time.

keef66

Well I'm about to start all-weather commuting on my rim-braked winter bike, but it's to all intents and purposes a pancake flat route so rim wear won't be an issue. The plan is to wipe down and relube the chain occasionally, but I'll let you know if I suddenly start craving belt driven hub gears.

Contrary to Bozo's rambling post, hydraulic disc brake systems only let water in if the seals are buggered.

CheeseToastie

I think I'm leaning towards disc brakes and, more specifically, Giant Contend sl1 which has the semi hydraulic setup - anyone have any experience? Shimano 105, 9.2kg, mudguard mounts. The savings through my ctw are massive (circa £600 for a £1000 bike with no final payment or deposit - option to lease bike for further 5 years at end of agreement for £0pcm). Oddly they accept cycle surgery but not halfords.

keef66

Well it's a bargain for £600. No personal experience of Giant's hybrid braking system but I've read a few reviews which were positive.

Do you know if they take any old mudguard or are you restricted to proprietary Giant ones? (proper mudguards are IME essential on a commuter)

pblakeney

keef66 wrote:

Well I'm about to start all-weather commuting on my rim-braked winter bike, but it's to all intents and purposes a pancake flat route so rim wear won't be an issue.

No stop/start pia due to lights, junctions, congestion etc? You do stop for lights?
That's what did for my last commuting rims.

redvision

PhotoNic69 wrote:

redvision wrote:

PhotoNic69 wrote:

At 3600 miles per year commuting in all weather and a hilly route would wear out rims pretty quick.

Simply not true.
Up until last year I commuted a very hilly 44 mile round commute 3 times a week, in all weathers. I had a set of fulcrum 7s which cost me about £120 when I bought them and I covered over 10000 miles before they needed replacing (due to rim wear).

Unless you are constantly on the brakes and never clean the rims/ brake pads then rim brakes are perfectly fine for any commute.

I beg to differ - My Giant Defy rims wore out in around 3000 miles and that was just on club runs, not commuting, but in all weathers. I kept it bike meticulously clean and used SwissStop Blue pads exclusively. It is particularly hilly around these parts. I guess it depends on the rims themselves. For a trouble free commuter I'd go with discs every time.

Sorry but if your rims only last 3000 miles then something was amiss. I would have been sending them back to giant!

Rims wear out yes, but they are not swiss cheese. If used and maintained correctly then they will last for thousands of miles, no matter what conditions you ride in.

pblakeney

redvision wrote:

Rims wear out yes, but they are not swiss cheese. If used and maintained correctly then they will last for thousands of miles, no matter what conditions you ride in.

They will last for hundreds of thousands of miles.
If you don't brake. The amount of miles inbetween is irrelevant.

photonic69

redvision wrote:

.... swiss cheese.

Mmmmmm - cheese!

I think in the case of rims it definitely is a case of YMMV!!!

CheeseToastie

keef66 wrote:

Well it's a bargain for £600. No personal experience of Giant's hybrid braking system but I've read a few reviews which were positive.

Do you know if they take any old mudguard or are you restricted to proprietary Giant ones? (proper mudguards are IME essential on a commuter)

So I just did a quote, it's actually £679 in total, as I don't benefit from the extra 12% discount by going straight through the scheme's own shop.

Alternatively the Cannondale Synapse AL Disc 105 for 30 quid cheaper. The giant hydraulic system is appealing (if it's any good(?)) and is about a kilo lighter, whereas the Synapse has Spyre mechanical discs.

tgotb

Hydraulics (even with converter systems like the Parabox and Giant systems) are fit and forget. Once set up correctly, all you ever have to do is change pads and rotors as they wear. The hydraulic system is impervious to the weather, and will go years with no maintenance.

Spyres are the only cable discs worth having, but you will have to adjust them as the pads wear, and replace cables from time to time.

When I switched to discs for my commuting bike, I went from having to build a new set of wheels every year or two, to having to replace the rotors every year or so. Replacing both rotors costs £20 and takes 10 minutes. Replacing rims takes a couple of hours, depending how good you are at building wheels, and costs a lot more. Although I prefer rim brakes on my road/TT bikes, I wouldn't go back to them for an all-weather commuter. Just keep an eye on pad wear; the self-adjusting nature of hydraulics means the pads can wear right out before you realise.

bendertherobot

CheeseToastie wrote:

I think I'm leaning towards disc brakes and, more specifically, Giant Contend sl1 which has the semi hydraulic setup - anyone have any experience? Shimano 105, 9.2kg, mudguard mounts. The savings through my ctw are massive (circa £600 for a £1000 bike with no final payment or deposit - option to lease bike for further 5 years at end of agreement for £0pcm). Oddly they accept cycle surgery but not halfords.

As an all weather it has to fit guards.

So, here's my experience.

If you can get the 2020 model it has more clearance and I can pretty much guarantee it will take SKS Chromoplastics with 25c tyres and probably 28's. WORST case you have to go down to 25's.

If you get the 2019 model, I can tell you that it WILL fit Conti 4000iiS 25's front and rear but you need to pop the front black plastic thing off the front guard.

In BOTH cases, the retainer at the "bottom" of the rear guard is not on a bridge at the chainstay, it's part way up the seat tube, you will need to drill a new hole and the bottom bit is free to move but presents no practical issues.

The Giant Conduct system is very very good.

bonzo_banana

TimothyW wrote:

I'm intrigued as to how water ingress can cause problems with a hydraulic disk brake system.

Surely the same seals that keep the hydraulic fluid in also keep water out?

You don't need to clean your drivetrain every time it gets wet. You just need to top up the lube more regularly (carry a small bottle with you and you can lube as soon as it gets noisy), and probably change the chain more often (buy a wear checker if you don't have one... keep a spare new chain on the shelf)

I actually thought the disc options being mentioned were cable based so would need regular careful oiling/greasing of the caliper mechanism which I've had to do myself on mechanical disc brakes. I'd never really considered hydraulic disc brakes for a commuting bike as I wouldn't take the necessary tools with me to correct issues after a small crash etc and like to be able to fix issues there and then. As for lubing my point is people riding bikes with fully enclosed chains and hub gears and hub brakes don't even have to think about lubing, they can ride the bike for a month of huge downpours and just do a routine check/service at the end of the month. Apart from pumping up the tyres its always ready to ride.

Such bikes aren't always the most stylish but they may give you many hours of your life back because they simply function better as a bike for all weathers and may operate for many years without much attention apart from worn components etc like tyres.

CheeseToastie

bendertherobot wrote:

CheeseToastie wrote:

I think I'm leaning towards disc brakes and, more specifically, Giant Contend sl1 which has the semi hydraulic setup - anyone have any experience? Shimano 105, 9.2kg, mudguard mounts. The savings through my ctw are massive (circa £600 for a £1000 bike with no final payment or deposit - option to lease bike for further 5 years at end of agreement for £0pcm). Oddly they accept cycle surgery but not halfords.

As an all weather it has to fit guards.

So, here's my experience.

If you can get the 2020 model it has more clearance and I can pretty much guarantee it will take SKS Chromoplastics with 25c tyres and probably 28's. WORST case you have to go down to 25's.

If you get the 2019 model, I can tell you that it WILL fit Conti 4000iiS 25's front and rear but you need to pop the front black plastic thing off the front guard.

In BOTH cases, the retainer at the "bottom" of the rear guard is not on a bridge at the chainstay, it's part way up the seat tube, you will need to drill a new hole and the bottom bit is free to move but presents no practical issues.

The Giant Conduct system is very very good.

Thank you for that! It's good to hear some first hand feedback on the braking system.

All they say on the website is "has mudguard mounts". From the description it comes with Giant P-R3 AC 700x28. I would have hoped they'd ensure there was enough clearance even with 28s. Maybe they do some proprietary ones as someone mentioned above? Either way it's good to know I can fit mudguards in one form or another. Worst comes to worst I'll have to go with a Swan type one (what I currently have on my hybrid). Do you think clip on ones would work?

Unfortunately I can't get the 2020 (I noted a number of improvements - thru axles etc) but it's about 300 quid over budget until it's reduced once the 2021 models come out.

bendertherobot

CheeseToastie wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

CheeseToastie wrote:

I think I'm leaning towards disc brakes and, more specifically, Giant Contend sl1 which has the semi hydraulic setup - anyone have any experience? Shimano 105, 9.2kg, mudguard mounts. The savings through my ctw are massive (circa £600 for a £1000 bike with no final payment or deposit - option to lease bike for further 5 years at end of agreement for £0pcm). Oddly they accept cycle surgery but not halfords.

As an all weather it has to fit guards.

So, here's my experience.

If you can get the 2020 model it has more clearance and I can pretty much guarantee it will take SKS Chromoplastics with 25c tyres and probably 28's. WORST case you have to go down to 25's.

If you get the 2019 model, I can tell you that it WILL fit Conti 4000iiS 25's front and rear but you need to pop the front black plastic thing off the front guard.

In BOTH cases, the retainer at the "bottom" of the rear guard is not on a bridge at the chainstay, it's part way up the seat tube, you will need to drill a new hole and the bottom bit is free to move but presents no practical issues.

The Giant Conduct system is very very good.

Thank you for that! It's good to hear some first hand feedback on the braking system.

All they say on the website is "has mudguard mounts". From the description it comes with Giant P-R3 AC 700x28. I would have hoped they'd ensure there was enough clearance even with 28s. Maybe they do some proprietary ones as someone mentioned above? Either way it's good to know I can fit mudguards in one form or another. Worst comes to worst I'll have to go with a Swan type one (what I currently have on my hybrid). Do you think clip on ones would work?

Unfortunately I can't get the 2020 (I noted a number of improvements - thru axles etc) but it's about 300 quid over budget until it's reduced once the 2021 models come out.

Full explanation here.

viewtopic.php?f=40013&t=13107802

My advice. 25s and Sks. Or you will get dirty. The Giant guards are terrible

tgotb

Bonzo Banana wrote:

I actually thought the disc options being mentioned were cable based so would need regular careful oiling/greasing of the caliper mechanism which I've had to do myself on mechanical disc brakes. I'd never really considered hydraulic disc brakes for a commuting bike as I wouldn't take the necessary tools with me to correct issues after a small crash etc and like to be able to fix issues there and then.

The point is that you don't need to, they're fit and forget. Carrying something like a hydraulic bleeding kit, for instance, would make about as much sense as carrying a cassette tool and chain whip in case you need to replace a drive-side spoke. There comes a point where failure modes are so rare that it's better not to worry about it, and accept that you'll need to find a bike shop, or chuck your bike on a train or in a taxi once every few years. Particularly in the case of brakes, it's very unlikely that both would fail at the same time, so you always have the option to continue with one brake, adjusting your speed and riding style accordingly.

Bonzo Banana wrote:

As for lubing my point is people riding bikes with fully enclosed chains and hub gears and hub brakes don't even have to think about lubing, they can ride the bike for a month of huge downpours and just do a routine check/service at the end of the month. Apart from pumping up the tyres its always ready to ride.

Many of us ride for fun, rather than just to get from A to B. For example my commute is 15 miles each way, a lot of it ridden at or above 20mph, and it's something I look forward to. Doing that mileage on a utility bike would be a far less enjoyable experience, probably one I wouldn't look forward to at all. I'm happy to pay the price of a bit of extra maintenance (in reality a few minutes a week) to get an extra hour and a half of fun every day. Judging from the number of commuters riding similar bikes at similar speeds, I'm not the only one...