trimming ultegra 8000

shiznit76shiznit76 Posts: 588
edited 11 September in Workshop
Hi, ive got a new bike with ultgera 8000 on it, question is, how far over a cassette should I need use the trim function? It's almost half way across that I need to do small click to trim it, previous bike with ultegra 6800 I only need to use this function on last couple sprockets on cassette, not at mid point. Is this new set up correct or do gears need adjusted?

Thanks

Posts

  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,006
    Need indexing properly.
    TACX iFlow - basic, Bushido smart -Rubbish, Elite Kura - not smart, Direto - awful, Tacx Neo1 - perfect.
  • shiznit76shiznit76 Posts: 588
    is that all it is? Thought was an issue with front mech
  • Shirley BassoShirley Basso Posts: 3,132
    Assuming rear indexing is fine, it sounds like trim on the front mech needs to be adjusted.
  • shiznit76shiznit76 Posts: 588
    Assuming rear indexing is fine, it sounds like trim on the front mech needs to be adjusted.


    Rear mech seems fine, I was thinking more that the front trim needs seen to
  • Shirley BassoShirley Basso Posts: 3,132
    Indeed. I agree with that. I've got 5800 on my bike and it's a real pain to get right on the front. So much so that I snapped a the RH lever (about halfway up) and would rather ride with it snapped but shifting perfectly than to replace the lever (I have had a new one for about a year!)
  • shiznit76shiznit76 Posts: 588
    so it is something than can be adjusted though
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,286
    Indeed. I agree with that. I've got 5800 on my bike and it's a real pain to get right on the front. So much so that I snapped a the RH lever (about halfway up) and would rather ride with it snapped but shifting perfectly than to replace the lever (I have had a new one for about a year!)

    Proper PITA on a bike with no downtube cable adjusters like my CR1. I fitted some (decent Shimano) inline adjusters.
    I also remember reading about a trick involving the inner limit screw to get enough cable tension on the FD.

    You can overdo the tension though, and I think that's what killed my original LH shifter
  • i.bhamrai.bhamra Posts: 88
    shiznit76 wrote:
    so it is something than can be adjusted though

    It sounds like you need to set the high/low limits on your FD correctly and then ensure enough cable tension for the lever to move the FD out. Cable tension on R8000 FD is set using a grub screw on the body of the mech and no barrel/in line adjusters are needed.

    Plenty of videos about on how to do this.
  • wongataawongataa Posts: 773
    shiznit76 wrote:
    so it is something than can be adjusted though
    Download the dealer manual for your front dérailleur from Shimano. That document goes through the complete setup procedure for the dérailleur and you will see how to adjust the cable tension and the limit screws.

    The manufacturer instructions are useful if you want to see how to adjust/set up things.
  • i.bhamra wrote:
    shiznit76 wrote:
    so it is something than can be adjusted though

    It sounds like you need to set the high/low limits on your FD correctly and then ensure enough cable tension for the lever to move the FD out. Cable tension on R8000 FD is set using a grub screw on the body of the mech and no barrel/in line adjusters are needed.

    Plenty of videos about on how to do this.

    +1

    The outer limit screw for the large chain ring needs winding in. This places the cage closer to the frame and thus the inner plate will interfere with the chain only on the larger sprockets.
    Getting the balance is the issue - there may be chain rub on the outer plate with the smallest sprocket if you adjust too far.

    Remember - Do not adjust the outer limit screw inwards whilst the chain is on the large chain ring as this will stress the mech.. Drop the chain into the smaller chain ring first - then alter the screw.
  • shiznit76shiznit76 Posts: 588
    Cheers, will download the manual. Pity don't get issued with these when buying the bike in first place
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,006
    shiznit76 wrote:
    Cheers, will download the manual. Pity don't get issued with these when buying the bike in first place

    The newer Shimano front derailleurs are a pain in the 20p for the swearbox to set up and virtually impossible to do without an inline adjuster. You simply can't get enough tension on the cable for the derailleur to operate correctly without one.
    TACX iFlow - basic, Bushido smart -Rubbish, Elite Kura - not smart, Direto - awful, Tacx Neo1 - perfect.
  • AlejandrosdogAlejandrosdog Posts: 2,007
    As above, perfectly adjustable. If you get yourself lost then just go back to the beginning after having a cup of tea.

    If noone is showing you and its your first time, then take your time. Subsequent attempts are less stressful and only take 5 mins to do the whole thing from scratch.
  • shiznit76shiznit76 Posts: 588
    there isn't an inline adjuster so guess i'll just need patience and trial and error....or just take to my LBS
  • wongataawongataa Posts: 773
    shiznit76 wrote:
    there isn't an inline adjuster so guess i'll just need patience and trial and error....or just take to my LBS
    Your one will have a tensioner screw on the dérailleur itself. It is perfectly possible to get enough tension on the cable with it. Just follow the Shimano instructions.
  • Wongataa and others are correct. There is an 2mm bolt to adjust cable tension on the FD so no need for inline adjuster which is an improvement. No need to pull cable super tight before clamping cable, just hand tight and the adjuster can take up a mm or two of slack.

    Shimano tech document is technically correct but unfortunately written very badly and does not explain cable routing so you may need a beer and thirty minutes to figure it out because set up is so different from previous models. There are tiny alignment marks on the FD. once it is set up then shifting and trimming are great so it’s worth taking the time to learn how it works.
  • svettysvetty Posts: 1,899
    gazza1286 wrote:
    The outer limit screw for the large chain ring needs winding in. This places the cage closer to the frame
    Only when the cage is in its most outboard position (by limiting the lateral movement ) It has no effect on the cage position when using the more inboard of the two trim positions for the big ring.
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • svetty wrote:
    gazza1286 wrote:
    The outer limit screw for the large chain ring needs winding in. This places the cage closer to the frame
    Only when the cage is in its most outboard position (by limiting the lateral movement ) It has no effect on the cage position when using the more inboard of the two trim positions for the big ring.

    From the initial post, the OP only has an issue with chain rub when the FD is in its default extended position. He is dissatisfied with being forced to use the trim setting when the chain is in a 'mid-position' on the cassette. The only way to address this is by adjusting the limit screws.
  • I am very sorry gazza 1286 but I don't think that this your information is correct. Apologies if I am mistaken.The FD must be set up as per manufacturer's instructions. Even if limit bolts are perfectly set then it is still possible to get chain rub in mid-cassette when trimmed. The FD is only correctly set up in the trim position when the small marks on the mech are aligned. (Contrary to some comments above cable puller/third hand is not needed, the cable can feel quite slack when FD on small ring.)

    Assuming FD is correctly installed and limit screws are ok I recommend the OP puts chain on big ring then click onto trim position. After that, with luck, it may simply be matter of couple of turns of tension bolt to align the two marks at just after 12 o'clock when looked from behind. But please read the (rather clumsy) instructions for details.
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,006
    philthy3 wrote:
    shiznit76 wrote:
    Cheers, will download the manual. Pity don't get issued with these when buying the bike in first place

    The newer Shimano front derailleurs are a pain in the ars* to set up and virtually impossible to do without an inline adjuster. You simply can't get enough tension on the cable for the derailleur to operate correctly without one.

    The newest R8000 and R9000 front derailleurs do away with the need for the inline barrel adjuster. I was thinking of the older 5800 and 6800 which were a pain in the 20p for the swearbox.
    TACX iFlow - basic, Bushido smart -Rubbish, Elite Kura - not smart, Direto - awful, Tacx Neo1 - perfect.
  • singletonsingleton Posts: 1,457
    Setting trim on the front can be tricky.
    If you put too much tension into the cable, then the trim function does nothing.
    You need to remove a bit of tension inn the cable to allow the trim to work.
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