La Vuelta 2019, Stage 12: Circuito de Navarra > Bilbao 05/09/2019 - Stage 12 - 171,4 km *Spoilers

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  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,701
    M.R.M. wrote:
    I don't disagree at all. Just think that that stat doesn't make the case well.

    If being bottom of the league, going 84 consecutive GT stages without a win doesn't make a good case, what would?
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    RichN95 wrote:
    M.R.M. wrote:
    Is a somewhat pointless stat since it presumes the "they aren't that dominant after all" argument, which isn't valid if they still win the Tour (and other GC races). This would only be valid in principle if they hadn't won both stages or GC.
    Winning the Tour without winning a stage only really bothers the old school cycling purists for example.
    It's a reaction to the idea that Ineos 'dominate cycling' with their big budget. An idea supported by the UCI President. But you and I know that there's more to cycling than the Tour Yellow Jersey. I'm highlighting this.

    It's also about Ineos's poor strategy when they can't win.

    Panache wins stages ( ;)), level heads win overalls.

    Or something ridiculous like that.
    _
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    ineos have riders with panache. Froome has it in spades
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    He leads their stage wins right? ;)
    _
  • jimmythecuckoo
    jimmythecuckoo Posts: 4,716
    Another good stage that.

    Gilbert will hopefully still have something to offer at Lotto next season.

    He still seems fairly motivated.

    Alanburu seems a real prospect. Another of the Caja Rural production line.
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  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,455
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    M.R.M. wrote:
    I don't disagree at all. Just think that that stat doesn't make the case well.

    If being bottom of the league, going 84 consecutive GT stages without a win doesn't make a good case, what would?
    Isn't an applicable analogy because winning the league without winning games isn't possible in football. I understand you can argue they are bottom of the league (in the analogy), but that is debatable as well, since they did win the Tour and other GC races.

    The point I'm just making is, GC wins count as well. Not just stages. So saying they haven't won for x amount of time isn't a meaningful argument.

    I have no qualms with any of the substance you all are arguing. I agree 100%. Just think this specific stat is fairly meaningless. We all care about stages, and I care about 1 day classics and monuments way more than the general public anyway (and I care about classics and monuments way more than GT's). Most teams would take Ineos' season over their own even in this less than stellar (for them) Ineos season.

    Ineos entire team structure is set up for purely GC wins. Their only real big one day hitter is Kwiatkowski and he had an off season. Even in their better 1 day race seasons it was pretty much only Kwiatkowski (with the Liege fluke of Poels) providing the 1 day success.

    So, I see your point and agree. Just don't think that stat works when looking at it more deeply.
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