Which brake to keep me at a crawl going down questionable slopes?

Qu9ke

TLDR: Essentially which brake is needed as a beginner to use just to go down steeper, maybe moderately technical slopes at extremely slow speed so that I can get past them and move on with the rest of the trail? More info below.


Okay, I know the front vs rear brake topic has been covered by many including Sheldon Brown and other forum members around the net. I have done my research so I feel I don’t need extensive answers (although they are welcome), but I would like to present a specific mtb scenario and ask which brake, if I had to choose, would be ideal to help me travel down slopes at a crawl if necessary. I am willing to lean back if needed and apply the front brake, but keep in mind I am a beginner at trail riding, so odds are I won’t be going at average to fast speeds down slopes that have rocks/roots (depending on their size), even if faster soeeds may be more ideal in certain situations. I’m not afraid of speed in general going downhill if I can see ahead of me all right, but I don’t like the idea of going fast down certain slopes. But I understand that with certain slopes, depending on how steep they are, slow is not an option (and those slopes in particular I will probably avoid). Instead, just for the sake of traversing more questionable slopes in order to continue on the trail, I will probably opt for near standstill speed at times depending on the slope. If this isn’t a good approach, I would like to know.

So. Having said all that, I am looking for maximum potential to keep me at a crawl. I am usually of the mind that generally the rear brake is more for speed control while the front is more for stopping (but I know it might not be as clear cut as that). But it is that stopping power that makes me inclined to choose the front brake in those kinds of situations to keep me inching forward. Under wet conditions however I would probably put more emphasis on the rear so my front tire doesn’t skid, ignore the brakes and just take the slope, or just walk it.

I’ll stop there before I go on further about my personal braking habits. Input is appreciated!

whyamihere

It's more about the tyre than the brake. Even cheap hydraulic brakes nowadays have good enough modulation that you can apply a lot of braking power without locking up, assuming that your tyres are decent and are at the right pressure.

JBA

It’s a balancing act between front and rear on steep descends.
Too much front and you risk going otb. Too much rear and you’ll just skid and lose control.
Get your arse over the rear wheel and brake according to the surface condition.

steve_sordy

As above, good tyres, and most hydraulic brakes will be more than enough for the job.

However, not all slopes provide a good braking surface, like rock. Some slopes are of the type that once you start the descent "you are going down" one way or another - you will not be able to stop. Even if you lock up your wheels, the trail surface may be friable enough or slippy enough that there will be no stopping possible, sometimes even if your throw yourself off the bike! :shock:

What surfaces? I'm talking pebbles, mud, gravel, soft earth, grassy banks, railway embankments, pine needles, dead leaves, mixtures of the above and of course snow. What is happening is that often a wedge of trail collects underneath the tyre and you skid/float/surf down on that. But you have no steering or directional control at all. A root or a stone may deflect the bike and you go in that direction instead. Pebbles are the worst, but they don't tend to be too steep because they eventually end up at the bottom of any slope.
Under such circumstances, you have to decide whether you want to panic, stay with wheels locked and lose all steering control, or do something else. The something else is called cadence braking. It is like ABS in cars except you do what car drivers used to do before ABS, you rapidly apply/release the brakes repeatedly until you regain control or stop. This allows the tyre to roll off the wedge and regain steering control - for a moment - before it builds up again. That is why you keep doing it! How fast? I'm talking as fast as you can say on/off/on/off/on/off......

To test it, pick a grassy slope after rain and descend quickly, then stop as fast as you can. Look behind to see a skid mark left by your locked up wheels. Look under the tyres to see a wedge of grass and earth. Now try it with cadence braking. Remember, rapid on/off. You can vary it by gently on/off or full on on/off. Try both brakes on/off at the same time or alternately. Experiment and keep practising.

doomanic

If you really want to improve your technical riding you should consider some coaching. If you can tell us whereabouts in the country you ride we should be able to make some suggestions as to who to use.

figbat

There’s a really steep descent near me that I have to take at walking pace. It’s a loose surface and there are some bumps along the way. I get right back, off of the saddle and then, as said above, balance the front and rear. Too much front and the wheel could lock. Too much rear and the wheel does lock and drag, leaving the front as the only rolling wheel and therefore controlling the speed. On a really steep descent most of the weight is on the front wheel, so there isn’t a lot you can do with the rear. The trick is to prevent the speed getting up at all and that will mostly be with the front, but carefully and with as much rear as it will take. Just don’t let it get away from you and build momentum.

steve_sordy

figbat wrote:

There’s a really steep descent near me that I have to take at walking pace. It’s a loose surface and there are some bumps along the way. I get right back, off of the saddle and then, as said above, balance the front and rear. Too much front and the wheel could lock. Too much rear and the wheel does lock and drag, leaving the front as the only rolling wheel and therefore controlling the speed. On a really steep descent most of the weight is on the front wheel, so there isn’t a lot you can do with the rear. The trick is to prevent the speed getting up at all and that will mostly be with the front, but carefully and with as much rear as it will take. Just don’t let it get away from you and build momentum.

I used to do that, get right back off the rear, arse buzzing on the tyre. It felt like the right thing to do. But my weight was not over the BB but behind it, so my weight was actually removing grip from the front wheel. This lost me braking force and steering. The position is also very hard on the legs on long descents. When I was in the Alps, I couldn't work out why nobody else was hanging off the back of the bike!

I went on a skills course and my poor body position was pointed out. I was told to keep my weight over the BB when descending to keep balance on both wheels. You still move backwards of course, just not as far as before. The instructor got me to go over an OMG steep descent of about 40', smooth and with a long run out. In the video you can clearly hear me saying "Dear God!" just before I went over the edge. It felt all wrong, absolutely and terrifyingly wrong! But it was one of those revelatory moments that you get in mtb. Up there with discovering what the rebound dial can do for you, or the benefit of lower tyre pressures.

The Rookie

Agreed, you should be balanced on the pedals such that you could (in theory at least) let go of the bars and neither fall with your arse on the rear wheel nor smash your face into the stem.