Proper Wheel Upgrade for a Big Bastard

BigBastardonaGiant

As you could tell by the screen name I’m a real big bastard. 6’2’’ 300 pounds; nothing but muscle and blood...and maybe a little fat.

I bought a giant defy five road bike three years ago. At that time I was a little leaner than I am now. This year when I started riding it late summer (just recently) The rear wheel developed broken springs on each of the three rides I’ve been on.

I’m really loving the bike again. However, I feel I need to get a better rear wheel now that I have a few more pounds to shed.

When I call bike shops, either local, cross state, or online, They all don’t really have an answer for me on what I should buy. I feel like I’m the first 300 pound guy that they’ve ever talked to. And it’s as if they can’t get around the fact that I weigh so much that they get dumbfounded.

All I’ve been asking is what is the industry standard for the best rim for heavy riders. They keep focusing on the weight ratings of heavier duty rims stopping at 220lbs and that’s pretty much the only answer they give me.

Two recommended wheels were the:

1. Quality Wheels Clydesdale

2. DT Swiss R460

I apologize in advance for not searching the forum and finding the answer that’s already there (possibly).

Could anyone tell me what I should get in order to lessen my spoke breakage and still maintain a nice smooth road bike feel with my tires and rims?

timothyw

Whereabouts are you located?

I am close to your weight and ride about 8000 km a year on road bikes.

I build my own wheels, although I haven't hit upon a perfect formula yet - they do tend to last a good couple of thousand miles before they need repair though.

BigBastardonaGiant

TimothyW wrote:

Whereabouts are you located?

I am close to your weight and ride about 8000 km a year on road bikes.

I build my own wheels, although I haven't hit upon a perfect formula yet - they do tend to last a good couple of thousand miles before they need repair though.

I am in central Massachusetts. A couple thousand miles would be amazing. What is involved with building a wheel? Do you buy a hub offline? And spokes? What makes this approach different from buying a quality wheels clysdale?

Edit: I just watched a YouTube video on making your own wheel. I can’t devote that time at the moment. Can you recommend a purchasable wheel worth looking at?

timothyw

Ah, this is where it gets complicated, I'm in the UK, there are a few off the shelf options/builders I can recommend to you but most of them are in the UK/Europe so probably aren't going to be cost effective to you.

Do you have a link to the "Quality Wheels Clydesdale" or a spec sheet so I can have a look?

Your best bet is to find a bike shop/wheelbuilder who can build something to your spec/recommend you a spec to suit.

The DT swiss r460 is a decent rim and great value but is a bit underspecced to be used as a rear rim - you can use it as a front wheel without any issue though, I'd suggest at least 28 spokes.

The DT Swiss RR 511 is a better option, because it is deeper than the 460 it is less likely to flex in use so it is more likely to survive you riding it. I built up a wheel with a rr511 rim a couple of months ago and no issues yet, also had a wheelset with the predecessor rim rr585 that served me well for a couple of years.

Other rims that you should consider are the Mavic Open Pro C and A719 rim - these are less deep but have double eyelets at the rims, which should make the rim less likely to develop cracks and fail at the spoke holes.

Then from H Plus Son the Archetype rim is very well regarded for heavy riders, I used a set for a couple of years with no real issues.

In terms of hub choices, I tend to go cheap as my personal experience is that some other part of the wheel build will usually fail before it does - so the shimano 105 hubs are good value, miche primato/syntesi hubs also good, had no problems with novatec hubs. You can spend a lot more but I've never seen the value yet.

One contentious thing is that at our weight we will often get recommended a 36 spoke rear hub - the problem is that this can in itself cause problems because there are so many holes drilled in the hub - I had a rear wheel with a 105 hub that had 36 spokes, and the hub itself failed, leaving 3 spokes disconnected and the wheel unrideable - with a 32 spoke build this type of failure is much more unlikely to happen as there is less material drilled out of the hub and the bracing angle of the spokes against the hub puts less pressure on the material that is there.

This should be less of a problem with a large flange hub (so more material around the spoke holes) but the 105 hubs have quite a small flange, certainly I won't use a 36 hole one again (and have used 32 hole 105 hubs with no such problems for years).

It's better to have one spoke fail or one rim hole fail than to have a hub fail like that. You can also mitigate against this sort of failure if your builder will use a stronger spoke on the drive side, such as the DT Swiss Alpine 3.

Oh, and don't listen to anyone that says 'plain gauge' spokes are stronger - they aren't. Double butted/triple butted spokes are stronger because they can better absorb impacts and tend to be better quality in the first place.

pblakeney

Do some Google research on recommended wheel builders. They don’t have to be local but I imagine being in the USA would make things more straightforward.
A quality wheelbuilder will know exactly what to recommend.

cycleclinic

You need more than 28 spokes for the rear. Also you need a rim that never cracks.
Assuming rim brake you should get the follwoing.
32F/36R H Plus Son Archetype rim, Sapim Force spokes or DT Swiss Alpine III and Miche Primato Syntesis hub or Shimano Ultegra.
I have done many fo these for 120kg + riders and not one has ever had a spoke failure or rim crack to my knowledge.
Spoke ension should be 1200N DS rear and 1000N front. No more is needed. spoke tension DOES not vary with rider weight.

For disc brake my favoured rim is the ryde Andare 321.

The rims mentioned by TimothyW are fine for ligther riders. They also stop at 32H and that a problem at the OP weight. Those rims also have a 120kg wieght limit and while they are fairly robust the spoke nipple bed thickness is not as thick as on the archetype.

Plenty of people in the USA could build that. Ergott wheels should be able to help you.

OP forget tubeless compatible rims, none of them are up to handling the loads you can place on the wheels. The rims you can use can be anarrowed down to a very small number indeed. Ryde do a coupe as well but US availability may be poor.

ajkerr73

Hope Pro4 hubs 36/36 and HPlus Son Archetype rims have been pretty good for me.

Was 240 pounds for a while @6ft 5

BigBastardonaGiant

TimothyW wrote:

Ah, this is where it gets complicated, I'm in the UK, there are a few off the shelf options/builders I can recommend to you but most of them are in the UK/Europe so probably aren't going to be cost effective to you.

Do you have a link to the "Quality Wheels Clydesdale" or a spec sheet so I can have a look?

Your best bet is to find a bike shop/wheelbuilder who can build something to your spec/recommend you a spec to suit.

The DT swiss r460 is a decent rim and great value but is a bit underspecced to be used as a rear rim - you can use it as a front wheel without any issue though, I'd suggest at least 28 spokes.

The DT Swiss RR 511 is a better option, because it is deeper than the 460 it is less likely to flex in use so it is more likely to survive you riding it. I built up a wheel with a rr511 rim a couple of months ago and no issues yet, also had a wheelset with the predecessor rim rr585 that served me well for a couple of years.

Other rims that you should consider are the Mavic Open Pro C and A719 rim - these are less deep but have double eyelets at the rims, which should make the rim less likely to develop cracks and fail at the spoke holes.

Then from H Plus Son the Archetype rim is very well regarded for heavy riders, I used a set for a couple of years with no real issues.

In terms of hub choices, I tend to go cheap as my personal experience is that some other part of the wheel build will usually fail before it does - so the shimano 105 hubs are good value, miche primato/syntesi hubs also good, had no problems with novatec hubs. You can spend a lot more but I've never seen the value yet.

One contentious thing is that at our weight we will often get recommended a 36 spoke rear hub - the problem is that this can in itself cause problems because there are so many holes drilled in the hub - I had a rear wheel with a 105 hub that had 36 spokes, and the hub itself failed, leaving 3 spokes disconnected and the wheel unrideable - with a 32 spoke build this type of failure is much more unlikely to happen as there is less material drilled out of the hub and the bracing angle of the spokes against the hub puts less pressure on the material that is there.

This should be less of a problem with a large flange hub (so more material around the spoke holes) but the 105 hubs have quite a small flange, certainly I won't use a 36 hole one again (and have used 32 hole 105 hubs with no such problems for years).

It's better to have one spoke fail or one rim hole fail than to have a hub fail like that. You can also mitigate against this sort of failure if your builder will use a stronger spoke on the drive side, such as the DT Swiss Alpine 3.

Oh, and don't listen to anyone that says 'plain gauge' spokes are stronger - they aren't. Double butted/triple butted spokes are stronger because they can better absorb impacts and tend to be better quality in the first place.

Thank you all for your great responses. The link for the Clydesdale wheel is here:

https://www.treefortbikes.com/Quality-W ... DbEALw_wcB

It does have the damn 36 spokes as you mention. You think the 36 spokes will make the hub fail? Wouldn’t they change it to 32 spokes if riders were reporting this happening?

I’m starting to wonder if I should just put a skinny, non-knobby, mountain bike tire on there. If that would even fit..

timothyw

So those hubs might actually be ok, because they are deore they will have a somewhat larger flange than the 105 hubs, and are built to take the stresses of a disk brake from the hub - presumably you do need a wheel for disk brakes - so 36 spokes should be fine.

The question that remains over that wheel is the quality of the build - it doesn't specifically mention it being hand built (unless I've missed it) - if the wheel is built with strong components but by a machine then it will not usually result in a strong enough wheel.

cycleclinic

36H hubs dont fail in general. with all due respect to timothyW I may have built more 36H wheel than he has and more wheels in general. out of the 1000+ wheels built (I actually dont know the number but 300 pairs a year mounts up) not one hub flange has failed yet. It not a common thing with Miche or Shimano hubs. Maybe with some brands its more common but I stick to reliable parts most of the time.

So the shimano hub flange failure is a one off. Its not common and dont worry about it.

the link is to a disc brake wheel. the velocity cliff hanger is a robust rim. The ryde andare 321 is a cargo rim with an obscene weight limit (180 kg) and it what I use for 150kg riders using disc brakes.

The best hub for the OP bar none is the Shimano M756 hub (6 bolt). It has a large flange and comes in 36H form although it is no longer made but NOS hubs are still about. The deore M6000 is second best but a good option. The steel axle is what makes this hub good touring cyclists carry the world in there panniers use these hubs. they are 10 speed MTB hubs so will take the R7000 11 speed road cassettes as they are designed to go on 10 speed hubs. The current M6000

Use triple butted spokes. standard double butted have a thinner elbow. Lace up to either of the rims above.

pinno

Mavic kysrium's (of some denomination) - stiif, very strong.

They spin up real good.