Bike Fit Issues. Please Help
Comments
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I would suspect it’s something else you are doing that’s causing it possibly the Kettlebells or you have an under lying physical issue.
I have climbed and done upper body weights this morning. Tomorrow when I ride my triceps, shoulders and lower back will start to ache after a couple of hours. If I had done a long ride today instead, I would get the same aches but they would take longer before they came on.0 -
Webboo wrote:I would suspect it’s something else you are doing that’s causing it possibly the Kettlebells or you have an under lying physical issue.
I have climbed and done upper body weights this morning. Tomorrow when I ride my triceps, shoulders and lower back will start to ache after a couple of hours. If I had done a long ride today instead, I would get the same aches but they would take longer before they came on.
So, I should just expect discomfort when riding? I mean, I understand some degree of discomfort/fatigue when exercising in any form. Maybe I'm just being too sensitive to what I'm feeling?0 -
Are you sure? If you tilt the nose of the saddle up you won't slide off the front, you will be more likely to slide off the back.JSexton23 wrote:wongataa wrote:The tilt of the saddle will affect how much you slide forward/aft. When adjusting the saddle to the correct position you should be ignoring the handlebars. They are irrelevant for setting the saddle position correctly.
I most certainly have tried every possible degree of saddle tilt up and down, without regard to handlebars. I didn't mention the handlebars in my post about sliding forward because of that very reason.0 -
One thing you haven’t said is how long you have been a bike rider for and how often you ride and for how long.JSexton23 wrote:Webboo wrote:I would suspect it’s something else you are doing that’s causing it possibly the Kettlebells or you have an under lying physical issue.
I have climbed and done upper body weights this morning. Tomorrow when I ride my triceps, shoulders and lower back will start to ache after a couple of hours. If I had done a long ride today instead, I would get the same aches but they would take longer before they came on.
So, I should just expect discomfort when riding? I mean, I understand some degree of discomfort/fatigue when exercising in any form. Maybe I'm just being too sensitive to what I'm feeling?0 -
Having just re read all this thread and you have only 50cm from saddle to bars and 80 mm stem. I would say your stem is way too short.
I have 54.5 from saddle to bars my stems are either100 or 110 mm and I’m a fair bit shorter than you at 5 ft 8” and shrinking.0 -
Webboo wrote:Having just re read all this thread and you have only 50cm from saddle to bars and 80 mm stem. I would say your stem is way too short.
I have 54.5 from saddle to bars my stems are either100 or 110 mm and I’m a fair bit shorter than you at 5 ft 8” and shrinking.
I actually have a 90mm stem. I’ve also tried 100 and 110. This doesn’t change the fact that I have my seat all the way back and only have 5cm setback behind the bottom bracket.0 -
You don’t seem to answer the questions people are asking you. Slowbike asked in about the third post when riding with your hands on the hoods, can you see your front hub. You also haven’t answered about how long, how often and how far you ride.
You seem rather fixated about your saddle position.0 -
Set your cleats first (1cm behind 1st metatarsal) then try to put your saddle (assuming it's the correct width/shape for you body) on a position (height/fore aft/angle) that will have you not slipping forward.
When you find that position try a stem size that will make you not over-reach to the handlebars (or make you move from the saddle position) and set the handlebar height to have your shoulders/neck relaxed. Use your eyes to look down the road instead of lifting your neck and try to relax your upper body. There should be no weight on the hands basically.
If you can't do that maybe look at a professional bike fitter that will be able to set you up properly as it's difficult to do it alone since there are so many parameters (body characteristics/proportions etc).0 -
Op if follow my guidelines for bike fit, you won't be sliding forwards. let me explain further.
Sliding forwards on the saddle is a symptom of poor position and sometimes poor saddle choice. Some saddles are uncomfortable so you slide to a better position. Change the saddle. Most of the time though your sliding because of incorrect seat height or stem is too long, too much saddle to handle bar drop or other issues.
Hense my advise, which works by the way, should not be taken piecemeal. A level saddle is part of the fit not one thing that can be done in isolation.
The level saddle part does have some exceptions. There are occassions where you point the saddle down a bit however this is done because you have the wrong saddle. Those with flat saddles but find there balls crushed into the saddle end up pointing the saddles nose down for relief. This is also why saddles like the San Marco smp exist to overcome this problem. Such saddles don't work for me as I tend to bend in such a way that my balls don't get crushed. So a flat saddle with no cut out is just fine.
Bike fitting is really really simple. It does not need fancy iPod stores or fancy kit and £250. All it requires is common sense in the way I have laid out.
Actually cleats position is the last thing you do. It can be the first but it does not help setting the position. If the cleat position is way often address that before proceeding with a fit. Ball of foot over pedal axle is what to look for and ankles going up and down in straight lines. If the ankles do it the legs should follow.
Having read the ops posts I can say with almost certainty that the approach taken is always going to end badly for comfort.
Some of the rules of thumb mentioned like when on the tops can you see the front hub and another when on the drops do your elbows and knees touch or get close without overlapping have some validity. They are a good way of seeing if something way off and where the problem lies.
Having the saddle rammed all the way back is not right. Seat post setback might be insufficient but often this is done because the stem used is too short or the bar set to high.
Hense the fitting method I have described gets the saddle position and height correct independent of the bars. think riding with the hands off the bars. Then once you lean forward and there is an arc from upright to all out aero race position that one can accommodate, that sets stem length and saddle to handle bar drop. Unless the position moves to the extreme like a tt position which rotates the hips forward saddle position is unaffected by how far you lean forward. Hense tt fits are different.
I should add unless you have an arm injury that affect your ability to bend your arms, on the tops,hoods and drops your arms should be straight. This reduces strain on your wrists and reduces weight on your hands.
Maybe that helps the op a bit more.
Every day I see folk on bikes looking pained from there position and it obvious why.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
Webboo wrote:You don’t seem to answer the questions people are asking you. Slowbike asked in about the third post when riding with your hands on the hoods, can you see your front hub. You also haven’t answered about how long, how often and how far you ride.
You seem rather fixated about your saddle position.
You’re correct. For the record, it wasn’t intentional.
With the 90mm stem I was able to see my wheel spindle in front of the bars from the hoods by a smidge. I put my 100mm stem on and I’m lined up perfectly from the hoods, a bit of spindle showing in front from the drops. I still feel lots of weight on my hands, however.
I ride, and have been riding 3-4 times a week in the evenings on a nice bike path in the Dayton, OH area for a couple years, sans winter. I typically ride 10-15 miles per outing. In college I rode a 59cm Concord Raven everyday, 30+ miles a day ( I didn’t own a car and lived in the city). From day one that bike fit like a glove and I never had discomfort like I have had with the two different Soma frames I’ve been in for the last couple of years. I have no idea what that geometry was nor why it was so comfortable.
Perhaps it’s been my mistake thinking I need to go smaller frame geometry. That’s why I posted the detailed measurements, hoping someone had some perspective on that.
My main focus has been the weight on my hands. If it seemed my focus was on the saddle position it was only because I felt the sliding forward exacerbated my discomfort in my hands.0 -
Might have to post a photo to give us a better idea, but it's also possible that you have your handlebars tilted down too much and your wrists end up in the wrong position.
If the hand pain gets worse when sliding forward it means you are trying to relieve the perineum pressure by using your hands and upper body, your sitbones should be planted on the wide part of the saddle so it could be down to saddle choice as well. What are you using?
Also check your saddle height again, pushing the saddle all the way back increases the actual height so might be the reason you are sliding forward if you didn't lower it.0 -
Hi, I had similar problems when I first started riding and went through the same process of using a competitive cyclist guide. After a while I realised that I needed to tilt my saddle slightly up and also the hoods, which took the weight off my hands. There's a good video on YouTube by Veloharmony https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u0i-Mrdrwk
and also this one on the angle of the hoods to relieve pressure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9jq4WBrKOY
I think after everyone else's input you either need to post some pics of you on the bike or get a basic bike fit. It's very hard to work out what's going on without seeing you on the bike itself.
I do agree with cycleclinic, it really shouldn't be that difficult or complicated to get comfy.0 -
Similar situation for me, I also raised the handlebars, dropping them later as my flexibility improved.0
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Sounds like I’m just not that smart. Professional bike fit it is!0
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JSexton23 your measurements are pretty much the same as mine and I ride a 56 cm frame (Lynskey Cooper).
Sounds to me like you are too far forward on the frame even though you have tried pushing the saddle as far back as you can get. I had the same problem in that I could not achieve a balanced riding position enabling me to lift off the drops without falling forward. I solved it by fitting a seatpost with adjustable lay-back up to 135 mm (Canyon VCLS, the original one not the VCLS 2).
Incidentally I use a 110 mm stem so I think you may be a bit cramped in your cockpit on a 90, in your shoes I'd try a 120 mm stem (you are a tad taller than me but with a slightly shorter inseam).0 -
Manglier wrote:JSexton23 your measurements are pretty much the same as mine and I ride a 56 cm frame (Lynskey Cooper).
Sounds to me like you are too far forward on the frame even though you have tried pushing the saddle as far back as you can get. I had the same problem in that I could not achieve a balanced riding position enabling me to lift off the drops without falling forward. I solved it by fitting a seatpost with adjustable lay-back up to 135 mm (Canyon VCLS, the original one not the VCLS 2).
Incidentally I use a 110 mm stem so I think you may be a bit cramped in your cockpit on a 90, in your shoes I'd try a 120 mm stem (you are a tad taller than me but with a slightly shorter inseam).
The Lynskey Cooper also has 15mm shorter reach, a shorter top tube, and slacker seat tube angles. That’s a major difference from what I’m riding. So I don’t think going to a longer stem is going to change the fact that I’m imbalanced over the bottom bracket.0 -
Which saddle are you using and at what angle?0
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[/quote]
The Lynskey Cooper also has 15mm shorter reach, a shorter top tube, and slacker seat tube angles. That’s a major difference from what I’m riding. So I don’t think going to a longer stem is going to change the fact that I’m imbalanced over the bottom bracket.[/quote]
Comparing the Lynskey size M/L with your Smoothie 56 the reach difference is 3 mm not 15. Your Smoothie has a slightly steeper seat and head tube at 73.5 which I think is where the 3 mm difference in effective top tube might come from.
When I suggested a 120 mm stem I was thinking of the 56 frame not the 58, sorry that I never made that clear.0 -
The Lynskey Cooper also has 15mm shorter reach, a shorter top tube, and slacker seat tube angles. That’s a major difference from what I’m riding. So I don’t think going to a longer stem is going to change the fact that I’m imbalanced over the bottom bracket.[/quote]Manglier wrote:
Comparing the Lynskey size M/L with your Smoothie 56 the reach difference is 3 mm not 15. Your Smoothie has a slightly steeper seat and head tube at 73.5 which I think is where the 3 mm difference in effective top tube might come from.
When I suggested a 120 mm stem I was thinking of the 56 frame not the 58, sorry that I never made that clear.[/quote]
I’m on the 56cm Soma ES. It has a reach of 394mm. The M/L Cooper has a reach of 381-385 depending on what chart you are looking at. So yes, not 15mm but not 3mm. Much closer to 15 than 3. Also the top tube in the ES is 565mm where on the Cooper it is 557mm.
I think the more important aspect is the 73 deg seat tube angle. That helps put CG behind the bottom bracket a bit more. Which, in turn, would allow me to use longer than 90mm stems because I can bend forward more. The old butt against the wall lean forward analogy. I topple because my upper body weight isn’t able to be countered by my rear end. So a longer stem only exacerbates the root cause.0 -
I thought you were going to post a picture so we could see what’s really going on rather than trying to second guess it.0
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Webboo wrote:I thought you were going to post a picture so we could see what’s really going on rather than trying to second guess it.
I’m not interested in signing up for a third party web service to upload a picture. I’d be happy to email a picture to someone if they want to look at it.0 -
Can’t be that big an issue then.0
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JSexton23 wrote:Webboo wrote:I thought you were going to post a picture so we could see what’s really going on rather than trying to second guess it.
I’m not interested in signing up for a third party web service to upload a picture. I’d be happy to email a picture to someone if they want to look at it.
Tinypic requires no sign up.0 -
JSexton23 wrote:zefs wrote:Which saddle are you using and at what angle?
I’ve used a selle smp and a brooks b17. I don’t know the exact angle but slightly nose up
Sounds weird that you slide forward at any saddle angle, check yourself in the mirror sideways for anterior pelvic tilt?
Although if you used 73cm saddle height (lemond formula) then pushed it all the way back your effective saddle height got increased which can cause sliding as well, so you if you did you have to lower it. By how much it is determined by how far back you pushed it, if it was 3cm it needs to go down about 1cm.
Or you could do the heel on pedal method without clipping in, leg should be straight without loosing contact with the pedal and no hip drop when pedaling backwards.0 -
zefs wrote:JSexton23 wrote:zefs wrote:Which saddle are you using and at what angle?
I’ve used a selle smp and a brooks b17. I don’t know the exact angle but slightly nose up
Sounds weird that you slide forward at any saddle angle, check yourself in the mirror sideways for anterior pelvic tilt?
Although if you used 73cm saddle height (lemond formula) then pushed it all the way back your effective saddle height got increased which can cause sliding as well, so you if you did you have to lower it. By how much it is determined by how far back you pushed it, if it was 3cm it needs to go down about 1cm.
Or you could do the heel on pedal method without clipping in, leg should be straight without loosing contact with the pedal and no hip drop when pedaling backwards.
It is weird. I think I've made some progress bringing my saddle down a bit, switching my stem to angle up and raising it as high as I can go, which is very high. It's still not right in my head that I am only 50mm from saddle nose to bars, even with a 100mm stem. Maybe it's no big deal. I also think my lower back flexibility is an issue.
I have a bike fit scheduled for a couple of weeks from now. I am also going to borrow a friends Motobecane Century Elite 55cm bike and see if it feels any better. If it does, I think that is a good piece of information. If it doesn't, perhaps I need a bigger frame.0 -
Don't think you need a bigger bike, 50cm from center of bars to saddle nose is short for your measurements, it should be 55cm+ and it's weird that you can't manage that on a 394mm reach bike.0
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zefs wrote:Don't think you need a bigger bike, 50cm from center of bars to saddle nose is short for your measurements, it should be 55cm+ and it's weird that you can't manage that on a 394mm reach bike.
Could it be a factor of the very long steerer tube and the steeper seat tube angle? My steerer tube is really long. I'm not sure how much sticks out of the headset, but it's a lot. If I drop the bars to get a little more distance the bar to saddle drop gets more than 2 inches.0 -
I would highly recommend going for a bike fit and preferably with a physio or similarly qualified fitter. Some shops do good fitting but a physio (or similar) will be able to assess your mobility, flexibility and many other aspects which affect your bike position (and can be improved with off-bike stretches and exercises).
That said - I had bad hand pain on my new bike and while a good fit helped, the issue was still there.
The problem turned out to be my gloves. I went through a few sets of gloves before figuring out that highly padded gloves are actually worse (for me) on a road bike than gloves with no padding. The seams and padding caused pressure in the wrong areas and my hands were sore and numb within 10km.
After riding without gloves for a while (and experiencing no more pain) I found some gloves with minimal padding (but still with abrasion protection) and this has been great. A number of brands do gloves without padding but they are definitely harder to find. Giro, Pearl Izumi and Rapha have good options.
Anterior pelvic tilt was mentioned and if this is present then it also shows your glutes and core might need some work. This was certainly the case for me (office desk job) and doing some specific exercises to work on these has started to improve my comfort and power on the bike. Over time this will also help with bike position.0
