How much difference does road surface make?

heavymental

Out in France at the moment and as usual enjoying the riding but got to thinking today about how much difference to speed the generally smoother roads make? Usually when returning to West Wales after a cycling trip in France I feel slower despite the fact I’ve got good miles in whilst in france and I wondered if the slightly worse surface was to blame? I guess riding on a rougher surface is going to slow you down but to what extent?

imposter2.0

Obviously a rougher surface will be harder going than a smoother one, but it's going to be practically impossible to calculate 'to what extent', as it will depend on the surfaces being compared, together with tyre pressures, widths, etc..

awavey

must be possible to measure it via a power meter on a timed measured flat piece of road Id have thought ?

I was hitting lots of newly surface dressed roads yesterday and it felt like my wheels where shaped like 50p's the surface was so rough because the edge of the chippings hadnt been worn down yet, there was no way I was getting the same kind of traction/momentum, whatever you want to call it for the same effort that I was getting back on the smoother tarmac bits. it was a real grind on the legs and definitely noticeable when you swapped surfaces, it was almost 1 gears difference.

pilot_pete

Lots of the lanes around here partially melted last year in that heatwave. Once they cooled again many stretches had become billiard ball smooth as the tar had ‘self levelled’ and in effect covered much of the aggregate in the mix. These stretches are fantastically fast compared to the chip and seal surface elsewhere but I suspect not very grippy when wet! It’s certainly noticeable, but I couldn’t quantify it.

PP

hdow

Was doing some reps on the A168 Boroughbridge bypass last year. They had just surfaced dressed it and I found it hard to get the power and speed up to target. Then I hit the smooth section of road outside the waste centre and both power and speed shot up. When that ended it was back to slugging it out.

So I agree with Heavymetal about the slowing down. If it happens again I'll try and note the difference

cougie

Makes a huge difference. Riding in Switzerland the roads are lovely. Met a Swiss chap who hadn't punctured in years on those roads.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

The way things are going in the UK, we will all need adventure bike's with wider tyres, due to the poor upkeep of the roads!

The only notable exception around here is Longwood Dean Lane, just east of Marwell Zoo, which was needlessly resurfaced with butter smooth tarmac last summer. Lovely to ride on!

pilot_pete

They often comment in the Tour of Britain about how ‘grippy’ UK roads are compared to the continent. Having ridden in a few other EU countries I tend to agree, even allowing for the crap state of our roads currently. Our tarmac/ aggregate mix does tend to be different and my simplistic view is we generally seem to have slightly bigger stones in the mix which make for a slightly rougher surface on the roads around the Peak District that I regularly ride.

PP

peat

Each small bump is essentially propelling you upwards, not forward. Over and over again multiple times per wheel revolution. A roughly dressed road surface will indeed sap your speed. IIRC, many of the riders in the Women's ToB recently remarked how 'slow' the UK roads were.

I like to run 32c now, about 60psi. All roads feel smooth.

step83

Pilot Pete wrote:

Lots of the lanes around here partially melted last year in that heatwave. Once they cooled again many stretches had become billiard ball smooth as the tar had ‘self levelled’ and in effect covered much of the aggregate in the mix. These stretches are fantastically fast compared to the chip and seal surface elsewhere but I suspect not very grippy when wet! It’s certainly noticeable, but I couldn’t quantify it.

PP

Theres a few lovely stretches near me this happened on, you can see the sheen of the tar it does make it really fast and smooth, then the council come and slap a load of top dressing on to ruin it usually.

ridgeway_swiss

cougie wrote:

Makes a huge difference. Riding in Switzerland the roads are lovely. Met a Swiss chap who hadn't punctured in years on those roads.

5yrs with no punctures here so far although i did see a huge pot hole that was about 5mm across last week, terrible stuff.

By comparison the French roads are bumpy as hell vs our local lovely smooth stuff here, i typically ride the white lines when out of Swiss but here the tarmac is smoother than lines themselves.

I do however venture back to the UK once a year with my bike, think i'll hire a full suspension MTB this year after last years experience, just do'm know how you guys cope with such crap roads and crap weather, you're more committed than me that's for sure.

term1te

Ridgeway Swiss wrote:

cougie wrote:

Makes a huge difference. Riding in Switzerland the roads are lovely. Met a Swiss chap who hadn't punctured in years on those roads.

5yrs with no punctures here so far although i did see a huge pot hole that was about 5mm across last week, terrible stuff.

By comparison the French roads are bumpy as hell vs our local lovely smooth stuff here, i typically ride the white lines when out of Swiss but here the tarmac is smoother than lines themselves.

I do however venture back to the UK once a year with my bike, think i'll hire a full suspension MTB this year after last years experience, just do'm know how you guys cope with such crap roads and crap weather, you're more committed than me that's for sure.

Partially agree with this. The majority of roads are great, but the more interesting ones in the hills can be just as rough as anything in the UK.

Agree with the French approach to top dressing the road, with cobble stones and jam. I'm right on the boarder, and there's one road where you go from a billiard table to Brighton beach, you really notice the difference in effort you need to maintain the same speed. Still get the occasional puncture, but far fewer than when I was in the UK.

proto

To get an understanding of road surface, try riding on Belgian cobbles, shocking, in more ways than one. I rode up Koppenberg and it was very, very tough. Then I rode down Koppenberg and it was much, much worse!

Wayne Plunger

Was on quite an up and down B road today and the state of the road was so bad I was going as slow on the downhills as the uphills, a bloody big pothole or bodged repair is frightening at downhill speed.

pilot_pete

I went to Oswestry yesterday and plotted a route to follow on my gps. I’m usually quite religious about taking a quick google street view on new roads, especially the real small country lanes, however I missed a few on this occasion.

My god, some of the Shropshire lanes aren’t fit to be called cart tracks let alone lanes or roads. I was at walking pace weaving around and through some of the worst broken surfaces and huge holes that I have come across on UK roads and that’s saying something.

I stopped for lunch at Mule bike shop and cafe in Oswestry and commented about it to the guys in the shop. One of them said, “yes Shropshire lanes, they’re...how shall I describe it, begins with S and ends with T!”

PP

davep1

Pilot Pete wrote:

They often comment in the Tour of Britain about how ‘grippy’ UK roads are compared to the continent. Having ridden in a few other EU countries I tend to agree, even allowing for the crap state of our roads currently. Our tarmac/ aggregate mix does tend to be different and my simplistic view is we generally seem to have slightly bigger stones in the mix which make for a slightly rougher surface on the roads around the Peak District that I regularly ride.

PP

I'd second that, done a lot of riding in central Italy. There's a kind of older road surface that is light grey in colour, when it goes smooth it can be like glass, especially if it has rained; scares the life out of me. But they have a wider variety of surface than we do, and tend to leave the bad stretches for longer. Up in the mountains these can almost require a Defender (or Panda 4x4) to negotiate.
I rode the Blockhaus stage just before the Giro in 2017, and they had resurfaced much of the route, although only in the direction of the race. The half of the carriageway they had done was the nicest surface I have ever ridden on I think.

Wayne Plunger

Pilot Pete wrote:

I went to Oswestry yesterday and plotted a route to follow on my gps. I’m usually quite religious about taking a quick google street view on new roads, especially the real small country lanes, however I missed a few on this occasion.

My god, some of the Shropshire lanes aren’t fit to be called cart tracks let alone lanes or roads. I was at walking pace weaving around and through some of the worst broken surfaces and huge holes that I have come across on UK roads and that’s saying something.

I stopped for lunch at Mule bike shop and cafe in Oswestry and commented about it to the guys in the shop. One of them said, “yes Shropshire lanes, they’re...how shall I describe it, begins with S and ends with T!”

PP

Funnily enough Pete the road I was on in the post above yours was on the Cheshire / Shropshire border.

super_davo

They resurfaced Strines moor when the Tour went through it in 2014. Rumour was at the time ASO demanded a certain standard of tarmac when they did it. I rode through it last month and it was still in great nick. Contrast that with the patchwork or potholes and surface dressing you get elsewhere in this country and you wonder why all roads can't be like that. How much more expensive must the tarmac of that standard be than the stuff that crumbles the first time any ice forms?

Note Ewden Bank is still b@stard hard with or without decent tarmac!

mariamartinez

Road surface is a very important variable in rolling resistance and comfort, hence it is an important factor in tyre choice and pressure. The fastfitness guys have a new calculator on surface conditions and tyre setup (https://fft.tips/surface2), others have produced lists of CRR by road quality...but you can also test the influence of conditions vs power (at a set speed) it yourself if you have the time. I have to say, the joy of riding on good quality tarmac is priceless!

rickeverett

Big difference IMO.
Some of the lanes around me are a mix of the crappy tar/chipping top coating, brand new black smooth roll tarmac and the older larger stone tarmac. - I notice almost immediately through the peddles from one to the other.
The chipping / top coating along with the older worn large stone road surfaces are defiantly slower, however melted out or worn chipping surfaces can be quick.
The best has to be the new black smooth smaller stone chipping tar mac you see on new roads and motorways now. That stuff is very fast.

If you notice on the bike I guess for TT and races it will make a massive difference in comparison to say a slightly more aero stem than the bloke down the road.

davebradswmb

super_davo wrote:

They resurfaced Strines moor when the Tour went through it in 2014. Rumour was at the time ASO demanded a certain standard of tarmac when they did it.

I rode over it with a friend last year and we were saying how good the surface was, perhaps the best road we'd ever ridden on in the UK. It even has those deep concrete gutters that reminded us of the French Alps. Then we passed a local rider and remarked about the road and he told us that it had been resurfaced for the TDF. I believe they even shipped over French engineers to make job was done properly!

thegreatdivide

Eh...French Alpine roads can be just as bad as UK roads. In fact, some of them can be pretty dangerous.

davebradswmb

I think that depends upon which col you are on. The major cols are often the main route and are built and maintained to take heavy traffic. Anything that has been used by the TDF recently will have been repaired at least. But I agree some leave a little to be desired.

However I have done a little riding in the French countryside outside of the mountain ranges and the road surfaces and state of repair is well above that which we experience in the UK.

thegreatdivide

Slightly patronising.

heavymental

mariamartinez wrote:

Road surface is a very important variable in rolling resistance and comfort, hence it is an important factor in tyre choice and pressure. The fastfitness guys have a new calculator on surface conditions and tyre setup (https://fft.tips/surface2), others have produced lists of CRR by road quality...but you can also test the influence of conditions vs power (at a set speed) it yourself if you have the time. I have to say, the joy of riding on good quality tarmac is priceless!

Interesting. Will have a go on that when I have a minute. At first glance it looks like I'm running my tyres at too high a pressure.

But yes, as others have said, smooth roads are priceless, having done the local club run today back in blighty I was wishing I was back on those French roads. Yes they have poor roads in places but generally I find them to be much better.

StillGoing

You need one of these

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/192477952109?c ... n_EALw_wcB

heavymental

Might be of interest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zj0s6mT ... e=youtu.be

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Found out the painful way yesterday that I really need to revise my pressures for my 28mm GP4 Season and GP4000S II, headed out with them at ~95/100PSI with total weight of me and bike ~96Kg, finally got around to doing one of my local "to do" roads between Corhampton and Winchester and then head back to Corhampton (very undulating, best elevation to distance ratio road I know of around here).
https://www.strava.com/segments/16314395

I regular cover little bits of it, usually just crossing over it, but I'd never really appreciated just how rough the tarmac was until yesterday morning... So saddle sore once I got back to Corhampton just over an hour later!

mididoctors

cougie wrote:

Makes a huge difference. Riding in Switzerland the roads are lovely. Met a Swiss chap who hadn't punctured in years on those roads.

This .road surface is a big factor

heavymental

Went out today, psi lowered to 80 from 100 as a result of that spreadsheet above. Not sure how much difference it made but I did laugh when I realised how much my front wheel goes up and down as I was watching it! Wish I’d thought to look whilst in France.

itboffin

thegreatdivide wrote:

Eh...French Alpine roads can be just as bad as UK roads. In fact, some of them can be pretty dangerous.

I agree, two years ago whilst over in the Alps for the Marmotte we stayed at Les deux Alpes and on my first descent i dropped into my usual fatboy bullet out of a gun tuck only to find the normally butter smooth crack repairs with that black tar stuff actually wasnt filled just jigsaw wide deep cracks down the entire Col, my wheel went straight it and out again at a different angle with serious speed and force, made all the more scary by the close following cars :?

Mind you last week in Alicante i did a lot of driving and not once did i see even a small crack let alone a pothole, mind you i didnt see a single bike either.