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Gulf attack

bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
edited August 2019 in The cake stop
I feel pretty uneasy about this, too many parties want the US to attack Iran, be really odd if the Iranians have played into the hands of the Saudi's, Israel and John Boltom and committed this act
All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....

Posts

  • step83step83 Posts: 4,007
    Does appear that way, they are all slowly finding convenient excuses to send forces into the region.

    The two latest explosions, unclear at the moment what caused them everything from mines to torpedoes have been mentioned. More likely a time delayed explosive than an actual torpedo I would have thought as that infers an attack vessel of some kind being in range to release one and a sea mine would be too indiscriminate.

    But yes this ramping up of tensions plays very nicely into their hands to liberate the molecules of freedom they have.
  • sungodsungod Posts: 13,206
    yeah, plenty of parties with the presence and capability to play dirty tricks in that area if they thought it could help bring usa-iran into direct conflict

    wouldn't trust any of them
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    There is no need/reason for Iran to do this at the moment, they still have Europe/russia/china onside, provoking this situation gains them nothing at the moment other than an increase in revenue through higher oil prices. Houthi rebels backed by Iran have been attacking Saudi assets but this seems out of their league. Mohammed Bin Salem or Netenyahu hmmmm...
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • step83step83 Posts: 4,007
    It would be a bit stupid of them to, plus one of the vessels attacked is owned by a Japanese company, an they are currently hosting the Prime Minister from Japan so they certainly wouldn't want incidents like this while he is there, but others would see it as a great bit of timing.

    Middle east has been a slow building pressure cooker for sometime with everyone trying to backstab an trip up each other, this is just the latest and probably the most blatant attempt which unfortunately may just actually work an someone will trigger the geographical three in a row invasions.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,150
    Oh well, more cheap Gulf Sardines (in oil).
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    Britain agrees with the US that it was Iran, foreign secretary hunt says “IF it was the Iranians...”
    You either agree, disagree or keep your mouth shut or better still get boris to clarify the matter :roll:
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • slowmartslowmart Posts: 4,039
    Can’t we put the American and Iranian hawks on a field with medieval weapons to send each other to their perceived heaven?

    A vain and dysfunctional President opposing mullahs who think they’re going to paradise in a holy war. Not a good combination.
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,150
    slowmart wrote:
    Can’t we put the American and Iranian hawks on a field with medieval weapons to send each other to their perceived heaven?

    A vain and dysfunctional President opposing mullahs who think they’re going to paradise in a holy war. Not a good combination.

    Just wait until Boris is PM.

    I mean he was brilliant at playing foreign seketary wasn't he?
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • tangled_metaltangled_metal Posts: 4,015
    Less widely published were the explosions on Iranian tankers in an Iranian port. Independent analysts believe both sides are doing this possibly Israelis attacking Iranian vessels or likely the Saudis. It's two sided anyway.

    There's a us video purporting to show the Iranian republican guard vessel with personnel removing an unexploded limpet mine from the Japanese vessel.

    Targeting a japanese vessel 3 hours after a diplomatic visit by the Japanese pm (to deliver a message from us I heard the rumours were) to the supreme leader is classic case of giving them their answer publicly.

    There's a view that the Iranian government don't know the details of this operation. It could be the supreme leader ordering his own troops to do the attacks. The Iranian government apparently has been kept out of decisions before. Their fm for example wasn't allowed into one meeting but a rep guard general was. Supreme leader and his cohorts could be the ones behind it.

    Of course this is all speculation by people who claim expertise and insight into these matters. So probably all wrong. Let's just say both sides are not innocent and we're potentially going to be dragged into the conflict that is possibly on its way.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,150
    Let's just say both sides are not innocent and we're potentially going to be dragged into the conflict that is possibly on its way.

    Won't Trump see it as a perfect opportunity to swoop in and solve the situation and look like a hero?
    He hasn't the wherewithal for any other route.

    He needs Japan on side, surely?
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    Britain needs to remain... in harmony with Europe on this one, not be attracted like a lost political soul into the 'Trumpian-Bolton' world.
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • sungodsungod Posts: 13,206
    trump's mouthpiece pompeo was in full fake news flow yesterday, repeatedly accusing iran of 'unprovoked' attack

    hmm, let's see, what possible provocation might iran feel usa/allies have inflicted...

    supporting the shah's brutal regime, imposing decades of sanctions, looking the other way at overt and covert attacks by usa allies, and perhaps most egregious, supporting saddam in his invasion and war, selling him weapons including precursor agents for chemical weapons, both nerve agents and mustard, which he then used on iranians including civilians

    presumably to pompeo that's no provocation, no siree

    for the avoidance of doubt, the current iranian regime is pretty loathsome itself

    but imo if the usa hadn't gone into a spiteful sulk after the iranian revolution ousted it's puppet, and had spent less time propping up oppressive regimes, iran and the gulf as a whole would be a better place today
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • thegreatdividethegreatdivide Posts: 5,112
    No doubt this [email protected] is in on it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qasem_Soleimani

    He’s a nasty bit of work.
  • LagrangeLagrange Posts: 652
    sungod wrote:

    but imo if the usa hadn't gone into a spiteful sulk after the iranian revolution ousted it's puppet, and had spent less time propping up oppressive regimes, iran and the gulf as a whole would be a better place today


    ... improbable - the Gulf has sectarianism - Sunni vs Shia irrespective of the US or other external involvement. This is why the US should allow the Saudi (Sunni) to deal with Iran (Shia), sell them the weapons to achieve this and appease Israel by not supplying WMD. Whilst the Saudis are so motivated, America are uninterested - the Middle East is Europe's backyard not theirs. On the other hand Iran exercises influence over Hezbolah thus Hamas and the rest of the basket and these are a threat to the USA. In the various Palestinian conflicts Iran have got Hezbolah to tone it down ( a bit) knowing that wazzing off Israel is not good for them - by extension.

    The US (and Israel) have got it right on Iran's nuclear intentions and we need to get involved in that too.

    Oh yes, we need to blow up all of China too.
  • robert88robert88 Posts: 2,696
    Lagrange wrote:
    sungod wrote:

    but imo if the usa hadn't gone into a spiteful sulk after the iranian revolution ousted it's puppet, and had spent less time propping up oppressive regimes, iran and the gulf as a whole would be a better place today


    ... improbable - the Gulf has sectarianism - Sunni vs Shia irrespective of the US or other external involvement. This is why the US should allow the Saudi (Sunni) to deal with Iran (Shia), sell them the weapons to achieve this and appease Israel by not supplying WMD. Whilst the Saudis are so motivated, America are uninterested - the Middle East is Europe's backyard not theirs. On the other hand Iran exercises influence over Hezbolah thus Hamas and the rest of the basket and these are a threat to the USA. In the various Palestinian conflicts Iran have got Hezbolah to tone it down ( a bit) knowing that wazzing off Israel is not good for them - by extension.

    The US (and Israel) have got it right on Iran's nuclear intentions and we need to get involved in that too.

    Oh yes, we need to blow up all of China too.

    And the other elephants in your room..?
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    the USAnians are a bit upset over the Iranians shooting down there sophisticated drone, with the state of Drumphs mind, who knows how he'll react :(
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • robert88robert88 Posts: 2,696
    pinno wrote:
    Let's just say both sides are not innocent and we're potentially going to be dragged into the conflict that is possibly on its way.

    Won't Trump see it as a perfect opportunity to swoop in and solve the situation and look like a hero?
    He hasn't the wherewithal for any other route.

    He needs Japan on side, surely?

    It's his big chance to win his spurs, certainly.

    He hasn't fixed Yemen, though:

    Yemen's Houthi rebels hit Saudi facility with 'cruise missile'
    Attack by rebel group on facility in southern province of Jizan the latest in string of attacks on Saudi targets.

    The Houthis have been at war with a Saudi-UAE led military coalition in Yemen since 2015, when the latter launched a massive air campaign aimed at reinstalling the internationally-recognised government of President Abd-Rabbu Mansour Hadi, who was earlier toppled by the Houthis.


    It was good to see that UK courts are not helping Trump's friends: 'Historic' UK decision outlaws arms sales for Saudi war on Yemen
    British weapons, particularly aircraft and missiles, are crucial to Saudi Arabia's war effort in Yemen.


    How long that will last once Trump's toady gets into number 10 we shall see..
  • There is no need/reason for Iran to do this at the moment, they still have Europe/russia/china onside, provoking this situation gains them nothing at the moment other than an increase in revenue through higher oil prices. Houthi rebels backed by Iran have been attacking Saudi assets but this seems out of their league. Mohammed Bin Salem or Netenyahu hmmmm...

    I agree but you could easily argue that Iran has created an own goal by threatening to disrupt gulf shipping back in May?
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    Almost respect mr drumph for playing down the drone incident, but something tells me there madness to his method
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-48711229
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • john80john80 Posts: 1,846
    Trump needs a war to get reelected. He is merely following the standard playbook likely with disastrous consequences.
  • robert88robert88 Posts: 2,696
    john80 wrote:
    Trump needs a war to get reelected. He is merely following the standard playbook likely with disastrous consequences.

    Let's hope he doesn't go for the Falklands.

    Not sure I believe in the cyber attack story. That kind of activity must be constant, they don't just wake up one morning and think "Why don't I hack the Iranians for a change with my new raspberry-pi".
  • AlejandrosdogAlejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    robert88 wrote:
    john80 wrote:
    Trump needs a war to get reelected. He is merely following the standard playbook likely with disastrous consequences.

    Let's hope he doesn't go for the Falklands.

    Not sure I believe in the cyber attack story. That kind of activity must be constant, they don't just wake up one morning and think "Why don't I hack the Iranians for a change with my new raspberry-pi".

    its one thing having the ability to do it but once youve done it you leave traces. Traces and snippetts that can be used to engineer a weapon that potentially gets lobbed back at you.

    I suppose thats not a problem if the vulnerabilities you exploited dont exist on your own side.
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    john80 wrote:
    Trump needs a war to get reelected. He is merely following the standard playbook likely with disastrous consequences.
    Trump campaigned on NOT getting involved in foreign wars, America first, America only
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • step83step83 Posts: 4,007
    robert88 wrote:
    john80 wrote:
    Trump needs a war to get reelected. He is merely following the standard playbook likely with disastrous consequences.

    Let's hope he doesn't go for the Falklands.

    Not sure I believe in the cyber attack story. That kind of activity must be constant, they don't just wake up one morning and think "Why don't I hack the Iranians for a change with my new raspberry-pi".

    No thats someone else leaving one in JPL.

    The cyber attacks are interesting as they only seem to pop up when needed, like when they want to make a country out to be a bad guy, they suddenly reveal they are under constant cyber attack from country X so its all posturing and puff to make things appear more intense. They may or may not have hacked the missile systems, they are likely to have just been actively jamming them.

    An if hes not going to get involved in foreign wars, maybe we can hope for a second Civil War?
  • robert88robert88 Posts: 2,696
    step83 wrote:
    robert88 wrote:
    john80 wrote:
    Trump needs a war to get reelected. He is merely following the standard playbook likely with disastrous consequences.

    Let's hope he doesn't go for the Falklands.

    Not sure I believe in the cyber attack story. That kind of activity must be constant, they don't just wake up one morning and think "Why don't I hack the Iranians for a change with my new raspberry-pi".

    No thats someone else leaving one in JPL.

    The cyber attacks are interesting as they only seem to pop up when needed, like when they want to make a country out to be a bad guy, they suddenly reveal they are under constant cyber attack from country X so its all posturing and puff to make things appear more intense. They may or may not have hacked the missile systems, they are likely to have just been actively jamming them.

    An if hes not going to get involved in foreign wars, maybe we can hope for a second Civil War?

    Yes We Can. Check out what's happening in Oregon:

    https://twitter.com/PatDooris/status/11 ... 7574684673
  • step83step83 Posts: 4,007
    vive la revolution...

    Oh sorry thats French, can't have French...

    MURICA!

    Thats better.


    I love the logic there, they don't want to vote so they just run away then deploy the GOP militia to treaten the opposition.
  • robert88robert88 Posts: 2,696
    pinno wrote:
    slowmart wrote:
    Can’t we put the American and Iranian hawks on a field with medieval weapons to send each other to their perceived heaven?

    A vain and dysfunctional President opposing mullahs who think they’re going to paradise in a holy war. Not a good combination.

    Just wait until Boris is PM.

    I mean he was brilliant at playing foreign seketary wasn't he?

    Now is his chance to shine:

    Iran tanker row: US requests detention of Grace 1 in Gibraltar
    The last-minute effort by the US Justice Department has certainly muddied the waters, raising more questions.

    What grounds do they have for seeking to seize the vessel? And crucially how much co-ordination if any was there between the US, Britain and Gibraltar.

    Or did Washington's request come out of the blue?

    Clearly Johnson can now demonstrate he is no Washington Poodle.
  • robert88robert88 Posts: 2,696
    It isn't over until..?

    US issues warrant to seize Iranian oil tanker Grace 1

    "The big question is will the British government help the US by seizing this ship, will Interpol be involved or will the US government try to seize that ship,"

    The skipper:

    "He doesn't want to stay in command of the ship, he wants to go home"

    Iran:

    "Iranian officials said the tanker was preparing to set sail under an Iranian flag after its registration was switched from Panama and would be renamed the Adrian Darya for the voyage."
  • step83step83 Posts: 4,007
    Well the tankers setting sail to a destination unknown (could be Greece) The renaming and re flagging seems a political poke at the US.
    Could the US try re seizing it it its near another semi friendly waters? Those molecules of freedom must be freed!
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