A plea to car drivers.

Dawn Balfour

I know the roads are getting ever busier. It's often extremely difficult to drive with the patience and courtesy you'd like to exhibit. But I was on the A19 South at 8am this morning, not the most congested hour. ( as a car driver on this occasion ). There was a time trial going on and the cyclists were spread out over quite a distance. On at least half a dozen occasions I was blocked by motorists in the fast lane from giving the riders sufficient berth. I could see in my rear view mirror that a trucker, who I would I have given 10 out of 10 to for professionalism and understanding, having a very difficult time.

What has happened to anticipation ? A cyclist is doing 20 to 30 miles per hour, a car is approaching the rider from behind. The driver is going to need to veer into the next lane to keep everyone safe and well. It's not rocket science. I'm never in a rush. I'm a cyclist as well as a driver. I hope I have the anticipation I mention above. But several times this morning I had to apply the brakes, wait for a gap, and then overtake a rider.

I realise I'm pushing on an open door on here. I know every cyclist who also drives regularly would educate others when they happen to be a passenger. It just seemed to be particularly bad this morning which is why I'm mentioning it. Maybe it's just because the weather is starting to pick up and car owners need to get (re)used to increasing number of cyclists on the highway. A little bit of thinking ahead might save a lot of unpleasantness for everyone.

Sorry to preach.

Matthewfalle

wouldn't this be better posted on a car forum for more effect?

#2468motorway

imposter2.0

Dawn Balfour wrote:

Sorry to preach.

preaching to the converted...

Dawn Balfour

Matthew, it is. Far better posted in as many places as possible. This advice could save life or limb.
Imposter, glad you changed your ways but you shouldn't have needed 'converting'. You shouldn't have been behaving in this reckless manner in the first place.

imposter2.0

Dawn Balfour wrote:

Matthew, it is. Far better posted in as many places as possible. This advice could save life or limb.
Imposter, glad you changed your ways but you shouldn't have needed 'converting'. You shouldn't have been behaving in this reckless manner in the first place.

Seems my comment went way over your head, Dawn. The saying ‘preaching to the converted’ means trying to convince people who already agree with your viewpoint. I’m guessing English is not your first language. It’s either that or satire...

craigus89

Dawn Balfour wrote:

But several times this morning I had to apply the brakes, wait for a gap, and then overtake a rider.

Hope your day improves after having to put up with such horror.

Won't somebody please think of the Children?

haydenm

According to the rules it sounds like you are trying to change lane where there isn't sufficient space. There is no rule against continuing at a legal speed in the fast lane so they aren't really 'blocking' you. If you're trying to overtake a slow moving vehicle you technically need to sit and wait until it's safe to do so, you shouldn't be 'veering' anywhere. That doesn't stop a driver being courteous and letting people out but it depends on the situation. I've you have already slowed down to twenty it isn't especially safe for the fast lane driver to slow down drastically to let you out. Obviously it's hard to say but it does sound like you should have seen the cyclists, anticipated their speed and pulled out in good time, or just slow down to the speed of the object in front of you

slowbike

HaydenM wrote:

According to the rules it sounds like you are trying to change lane where there isn't sufficient space. There is no rule against continuing at a legal speed in the fast lane so they aren't really 'blocking' you. If you're trying to overtake a slow moving vehicle you technically need to sit and wait until it's safe to do so, you shouldn't be 'veering' anywhere. That doesn't stop a driver being courteous and letting people out but it depends on the situation. I've you have already slowed down to twenty it isn't especially safe for the fast lane driver to slow down drastically to let you out. Obviously it's hard to say but it does sound like you should have seen the cyclists, anticipated their speed and pulled out in good time, or just slow down to the speed of the object in front of you

There's the "legal" viewpoint and then there's the better way to deal with it.

Legally, nobody is required to make any change in velocity or direction to let anyone else in ... unless directed to by road signs or police officers

But best practice is to look forward and anticipate what's going on up the road, accommodate those trying to avoid slower vehicles - where possible - and generally facilitate everyone getting to where they want to go safely and sensibly.

Unfortunately, it seems too many people look as far in front as the end of their bonnet - or as far as the boot of the vehicle in front - and don't pay attention to anything else.

Of course, the best thing for DC TTs would be to cone off lane 1 ...

haydenm

Slowbike wrote:

HaydenM wrote:

According to the rules it sounds like you are trying to change lane where there isn't sufficient space. There is no rule against continuing at a legal speed in the fast lane so they aren't really 'blocking' you. If you're trying to overtake a slow moving vehicle you technically need to sit and wait until it's safe to do so, you shouldn't be 'veering' anywhere. That doesn't stop a driver being courteous and letting people out but it depends on the situation. I've you have already slowed down to twenty it isn't especially safe for the fast lane driver to slow down drastically to let you out. Obviously it's hard to say but it does sound like you should have seen the cyclists, anticipated their speed and pulled out in good time, or just slow down to the speed of the object in front of you

There's the "legal" viewpoint and then there's the better way to deal with it.

Legally, nobody is required to make any change in velocity or direction to let anyone else in ... unless directed to by road signs or police officers

But best practice is to look forward and anticipate what's going on up the road, accommodate those trying to avoid slower vehicles - where possible - and generally facilitate everyone getting to where they want to go safely and sensibly.

Unfortunately, it seems too many people look as far in front as the end of their bonnet - or as far as the boot of the vehicle in front - and don't pay attention to anything else.

Of course, the best thing for DC TTs would be to cone off lane 1 ...

I know, I was just trying to cause an argument.

Though if you've slowed down to twenty and are trying to pull into a busy lane at 70mph then you'll need quite a lot of space or it's quite dangerous. The other drivers might have not wanted to to a brake check to let him in. Obviously you want to be let out way before you have to slow down and make a 'dangerous' manoeuvre which is his point...

slowbike

HaydenM wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

HaydenM wrote:

According to the rules it sounds like you are trying to change lane where there isn't sufficient space. There is no rule against continuing at a legal speed in the fast lane so they aren't really 'blocking' you. If you're trying to overtake a slow moving vehicle you technically need to sit and wait until it's safe to do so, you shouldn't be 'veering' anywhere. That doesn't stop a driver being courteous and letting people out but it depends on the situation. I've you have already slowed down to twenty it isn't especially safe for the fast lane driver to slow down drastically to let you out. Obviously it's hard to say but it does sound like you should have seen the cyclists, anticipated their speed and pulled out in good time, or just slow down to the speed of the object in front of you

There's the "legal" viewpoint and then there's the better way to deal with it.

Legally, nobody is required to make any change in velocity or direction to let anyone else in ... unless directed to by road signs or police officers

But best practice is to look forward and anticipate what's going on up the road, accommodate those trying to avoid slower vehicles - where possible - and generally facilitate everyone getting to where they want to go safely and sensibly.

Unfortunately, it seems too many people look as far in front as the end of their bonnet - or as far as the boot of the vehicle in front - and don't pay attention to anything else.

Of course, the best thing for DC TTs would be to cone off lane 1 ...

I know, I was just trying to cause an argument.

:roll:

HaydenM wrote:

Though if you've slowed down to twenty and are trying to pull into a busy lane at 70mph then you'll need quite a lot of space or it's quite dangerous. The other drivers might have not wanted to to a brake check to let him in. Obviously you want to be let out way before you have to slow down and make a 'dangerous' manoeuvre which is his point...

you don't need to do a brake check - just need to look far enough ahead and create a big enough gap for them to move in and accelerate into.

haydenm

I think in certain situations where there is a line of 70mph traffic with a 2 second gap it might be dangerous to pull into it from 20mph, the fast lane drivers can't always see what's going on or why the slow lane car is slowing down, could easily be someone turning off a dual carriageway or similar. At that point it's really too late and a courteous driver should have let him out when he was traveling at 50 or 60mph.

On a related note, I can't think of anything worse than cycling on a dual carriageway

slowbike

HaydenM wrote:

I think in certain situations where there is a line of 70mph traffic with a 2 second gap it might be dangerous to pull into it from 20mph, the fast lane drivers can't always see what's going on or why the slow lane car is slowing down, could easily be someone turning off a dual carriageway or similar. At that point it's really too late and a courteous driver should have let him out when he was traveling at 50 or 60mph.

yup

HaydenM wrote:

On a related note, I can't think of anything worse than cycling on a dual carriageway

Oh - cycling a dual carriageway is fine - when it's shut to motor traffic ...

dabber

HaydenM wrote:

On a related note, I can't think of anything worse than cycling on a dual carriageway

On a personal note it's one the reasons I've yet to have a go at the odd TT. I quite fancy having a go, just for fun but most of the club TTs are more or less 100% dual carriageways. Whilst I probably end up on dual carriageways for short sections on my normal rides, I certainly don't seek them out.

peat

I'm fairly conflicted when it comes to dual carriageway TT's.

Personally, I won't ride one but I understand why they are still popular. Our club has lost 2 of our non-DC courses in the past few years due to new housing estates inducing changes to the road layouts (Traffic light junctions) and more are on the horizon. I feel the time is coming for CTT to relax their rules about how many times you can pass over the same piece of tarmac, to allow multiple laps of shorter circuits.

For me, a decline in driving standards combined with ever increasing motor traffic levels makes it totally unattractive. We 'should' be protected by the highway code, of course. But drivers seem totally ill-equipped / unwilling to deal with situations that require them to drive below the speed limit.

Also, as congestion is increasing, is it really correct that we still hold such events on the road? I feel the same about mass participation sportives etc. Causing unnecessary disruption will only enlarge the division between cyclist and motorist. But, I am sure that there is no amount of compromise we can do that will quell that.

slowbike

Dabber wrote:

HaydenM wrote:

On a related note, I can't think of anything worse than cycling on a dual carriageway

On a personal note it's one the reasons I've yet to have a go at the odd TT.

It's totally personal - I could introduce you to respected TTers who say that DC TTs are safer (in their opinion) - and others who prefer the quieter back roads.

If our club didn't do the quieter back roads as their evening TTs I wouldn't still be a member as I won't ride DC TTs. However, we do have incidents of vehicles pulling out on riders - or overtaking only to turn off seconds later - quiet back roads certainly don't mean you can put your head down - quite the contrary - however, I do prefer the lower relative speeds between vehicles ...

haydenm

I've driven along the A63 into Hull before when there was a TT on, must have been a ferry in or something as it was total chaos. Admittedly it's poor driving (as described by the OP) which causes the issues but given the state of most people's situational awareness whilst driving I would steer clear (in good time, rather than veering ).

I know people say it isn't dangerous as there have been relatively few accidents but personally I felt it was. When you consider the amount of inconsiderate driving and attitudes towards cyclists you see on normal roads I wouldn't risk it personally. I'm sure it's not always that busy but I remember thinking it wasn't doing much to quell cyclist/motorist tensions...

keef66

It scares the sh1t out of me every time I see the TTs local to me on the A14 / A11. OK, so the riders are compelled to have flashing rear lights, and the organisers put out the occasional warning sign, but the disparity in speed and visibility between cyclists and vehicles is still terrifying.

I regularly see close passes, last minute braking, unsafe lane changes and near misses on slip-roads. I wouldn't risk it myself.

Alejandrosdog

HaydenM wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

HaydenM wrote:

According to the rules it sounds like you are trying to change lane where there isn't sufficient space. There is no rule against continuing at a legal speed in the fast lane so they aren't really 'blocking' you. If you're trying to overtake a slow moving vehicle you technically need to sit and wait until it's safe to do so, you shouldn't be 'veering' anywhere. That doesn't stop a driver being courteous and letting people out but it depends on the situation. I've you have already slowed down to twenty it isn't especially safe for the fast lane driver to slow down drastically to let you out. Obviously it's hard to say but it does sound like you should have seen the cyclists, anticipated their speed and pulled out in good time, or just slow down to the speed of the object in front of you

There's the "legal" viewpoint and then there's the better way to deal with it.

Legally, nobody is required to make any change in velocity or direction to let anyone else in ... unless directed to by road signs or police officers

But best practice is to look forward and anticipate what's going on up the road, accommodate those trying to avoid slower vehicles - where possible - and generally facilitate everyone getting to where they want to go safely and sensibly.

Unfortunately, it seems too many people look as far in front as the end of their bonnet - or as far as the boot of the vehicle in front - and don't pay attention to anything else.

Of course, the best thing for DC TTs would be to cone off lane 1 ...

I know, I was just trying to cause an argument.

Though if you've slowed down to twenty and are trying to pull into a busy lane at 70mph then you'll need quite a lot of space or it's quite dangerous. The other drivers might have not wanted to to a brake check to let him in. Obviously you want to be let out way before you have to slow down and make a 'dangerous' manoeuvre which is his point...

Without being too pedantic, there is no such thing as a fast lane. It's an overtaking lane.

haydenm

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Without being too pedantic, there is no such thing as a fast lane. It's an overtaking lane.

The government guidance seem to call it a 'right hand lane' rather than an overtaking lane despite overtaking being it's primary use, I'd argue that calling it a 'fast lane' is at least as legitimate as calling it an 'overtaking' lane as both are implied rather than official terminology. Unless you're being undertaken then it's a 'faster' lane at least.

Without being too pedantic

Ben6899

It's "Lane 1", "Lane 2", "Lane 3"... if you want to know the proper, technical terminology.

keef66

My highway code of 2007 vintage uses left hand / middle / right hand lane terminology. Much less ambiguous than lane 1 / 2 / 3, which is I suspect used by professionals who work on / police the roads.

I was always taught to use the left hand lane except when overtaking, and I generally try to stick to it. On some motorway stretches it's by far the safest as 90% of vehicles are in the other lanes, despite the fact they are going no faster.

Dawn Balfour

Strictly tongue-in-cheek I can assure you.

shipley

Pop the plea on here https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/default.asp?h=0.

I'd buy a tin hat for the abuse though.

jgsi

keef66 wrote:

My highway code of 2007 vintage uses left hand / middle / right hand lane terminology. Much less ambiguous than lane 1 / 2 / 3, which is I suspect used by professionals who work on / police the roads.

I was always taught to use the left hand lane except when overtaking, and I generally try to stick to it. On some motorway stretches it's by far the safest as 90% of vehicles are in the other lanes, despite the fact they are going no faster.

Hence lane hoggers need to be castrated.. they force you to make the unnecessary manoeuvres to overtake them legally.
Switching lanes on motorways is one of those risk movements.

pblakeney

Rule 264
You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear.

Matthewfalle

Craigus89 wrote:

Dawn Balfour wrote:

But several times this morning I had to apply the brakes, wait for a gap, and then overtake a rider.

Hope your day improves after having to put up with such horror.

Won't somebody please think of the Children?

prayers & thoughts.

#thinkofOxo
#prayforHayden

briantrumpet

JGSI wrote:

keef66 wrote:

My highway code of 2007 vintage uses left hand / middle / right hand lane terminology. Much less ambiguous than lane 1 / 2 / 3, which is I suspect used by professionals who work on / police the roads.

I was always taught to use the left hand lane except when overtaking, and I generally try to stick to it. On some motorway stretches it's by far the safest as 90% of vehicles are in the other lanes, despite the fact they are going no faster.

Hence lane hoggers need to be castrated.. they force you to make the unnecessary manoeuvres to overtake them legally.
Switching lanes on motorways is one of those risk movements.

Argh, having driven back from Yorkshire to Devon on the M6/M5 on Friday, the quality of driving was often astonishingly bad. The only times it was noticeably better was on the long 50mph section where it's being converted to 'smart motorway'... otherwise people were sitting in the 3rd lane in the 4-lane parts, very often the 3rd & 4th lanes were chocker leaving the 1st & 2nd pretty clear. I reckon the density in the 1st lane was often a 10th of that of the 3rd/4th lanes... presenting the dilemma... next-to-nothing in the 1st lane, moving nicely at 70mph... should one slow down if there's next to nothing in the 2nd lane, and the 3rd/4th lanes are slower??

PS - you'd not catch me riding a DC TT... they are like motorways, but without the 'safety' of a hard shoulder.

joe2008

JGSI wrote:

Hence lane hoggers need to be castrated.. they force you to make the unnecessary manoeuvres to overtake them legally.
Switching lanes on motorways is one of those risk movements.

Perhaps that's why they stay in one lane

kingstongraham

Dawn Balfour wrote:

But several times this morning I had to apply the brakes, wait for a gap, and then overtake a rider.

Should have stayed in the outside lane at 70mph. Safer for everyone.