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Overrated, Overpriced, Inferior Quality

earthearth Posts: 934
edited June 2019 in The cake stop
Had the Valiant boiler serviced this morning. Was loosing pressure over a period of a month and it was found that a valve was weeping. Came to £372 to fix. That's the second large bill for that boiler. First was for £500 to replace internal rubber connecting hoses that were perished for copper pipes.

German products.
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  • robert88robert88 Posts: 2,696
    earth wrote:
    Had the Valiant boiler serviced this morning. Was loosing pressure over a period of a month and it was found that a valve was weeping. Came to £372 to fix. That's the second large bill for that boiler. First was for £500 to replace internal rubber connecting hoses that were perished for copper pipes.

    German products.

    Vaillant?

    Ve haf ze Weissmann. Zehr gut!
  • capt_slogcapt_slog Posts: 3,598
    earth wrote:
    Had the Valiant boiler serviced this morning. Was loosing pressure over a period of a month and it was found that a valve was weeping. Came to £372 to fix. That's the second large bill for that boiler. First was for £500 to replace internal rubber connecting hoses that were perished for copper pipes.

    German products.

    Just for interest, how old is it?


    The older I get, the better I was.

  • earthearth Posts: 934
    Capt Slog wrote:
    earth wrote:
    Had the Valiant boiler serviced this morning. Was loosing pressure over a period of a month and it was found that a valve was weeping. Came to £372 to fix. That's the second large bill for that boiler. First was for £500 to replace internal rubber connecting hoses that were perished for copper pipes.

    German products.

    Just for interest, how old is it?

    Well it's a bit like Trigger's broom
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    And I thought this was a thread about iPhones....!
    Faster than a tent.......
  • earthearth Posts: 934
    Rolf F wrote:
    And I thought this was a thread about iPhones....!

    Never had one but perhaps it could be
  • FocusZingFocusZing Posts: 4,373
    Rolf F wrote:
    And I thought this was a thread about iPhones....!

    I thought it was about Brexit.
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,765
    Take out Brit Gas service contract. It might cost you £200 to 300 per year but done monthly treat it as an insurance. Covers your whole heating system and all parts and labour plus a service every year. None of those horrid big bills. It's peace of mind and you'll get an engineer within 24hrs.

    I've had new hotwater tank and header tank out of it.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,713
    earth wrote:
    Capt Slog wrote:
    earth wrote:
    Had the Valiant boiler serviced this morning. Was loosing pressure over a period of a month and it was found that a valve was weeping. Came to £372 to fix. That's the second large bill for that boiler. First was for £500 to replace internal rubber connecting hoses that were perished for copper pipes.

    German products.

    Just for interest, how old is it?

    Well it's a bit like Trigger's broom

    Boilers are only intended to have a 10-15yr lifespan so if it is approaching that then it has done its bit.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Not that it helps here but Vokera have a nice line in fixed price repairs. You pay a couple of hundred quid and they repair everything that needs repairing up to about £550 in parts and unlimited labour. If it's a screw needing replacing you do badly but if your boiler (like mine) needs a stack of repairs then it works out a real bargain. I pretty much maxed out the parts cost and had the bloke spend a couple of hours fixing it.
    I don't spend anything else. It's a bit like Mr Goos contract only you only pay for it when you need it.
    It's worth double checking that Vailiant doesn't do the same. For me it's a strong incentive to stick with Vokera; certainly I wouldn't buy from a manufacturer that didn't offer this whilst Vokera does.

    I think my boiler must be at least 15 years old by now! I doubt I'll have another repair on it as the flue is rusted and strictly speaking it is slightly dodgy; they won't fix it again but the part apparently isn't available.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • step83step83 Posts: 4,107
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Take out Brit Gas service contract. It might cost you £200 to 300 per year but done monthly treat it as an insurance. Covers your whole heating system and all parts and labour plus a service every year. None of those horrid big bills. It's peace of mind and you'll get an engineer within 24hrs.

    I've had new hotwater tank and header tank out of it.


    We had the BG cover but had no end of trouble actually getting them to service it, ended up waiting 18 months for the annual service by which point I ended up doing a standard call out as the pilot wouldnt ignite. Was just a build up or crud around the pilot light electrode or similar.
    the BG engineer then told me I should have it serviced annually to stop the build up. I showed him my service plan and he went a bit quiet.

    Swapped to CORGI boiler plan an had no problems since.
  • capt_slogcapt_slog Posts: 3,598
    rjsterry wrote:

    Boilers are only intended to have a 10-15yr lifespan so if it is approaching that then it has done its bit.

    oh :oops:


    The older I get, the better I was.

  • earthearth Posts: 934
    I used to be with BG for gas and electricity way back when I first rented a flat. It was above a shop and I realised I had been reading the wrong meter when I had to quote. I ended up hundreds in credit on my account. When the mistake came to light BG said they would send a cheque. Never got one then they said I had spent all the over payments on gas during the winter months. Then when I complained that I was still overpaying and accruing credit they said they only evaluated the payments every six months or every three months if it was in their favour. Whenever I submitted a meter reading before the six month evaluation they ignored it. Never returned to BG but boiler cover did spring to mind this morning. I'm selling the house though so anything I do will be in relation to the new property.
  • bonzo_bananabonzo_banana Posts: 256
    earth wrote:
    Had the Valiant boiler serviced this morning. Was loosing pressure over a period of a month and it was found that a valve was weeping. Came to £372 to fix. That's the second large bill for that boiler. First was for £500 to replace internal rubber connecting hoses that were perished for copper pipes.

    German products.

    I used to think the same about German stuff but seems like quality has dropped hugely and nowadays they are some of the worst products for quality vs value especially as repair costs seem so uncompetitive.

    https://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer

    Also BMW are the least reliable motorbikes.

    MIele while reliable have horrific and uncompetitive repair costs.

    https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.miele.co.uk

    Not so much an issue with bicycles though because most of the German brand bikes are pretty much made in the far east with only assembly in Germany, sometimes they only get boxed in Germany to get a 'Made in Germany' sticker. The EU was going to stop it but never did instead pretty much all European manufacturers make great efforts to conceal the real manufacturing location nowadays.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/made-in ... 012-1?IR=T

    I take the view the best engineered stuff is Japanese and if I'm not buying Japanese I make more effort to actually check what has the best reliability, value and servicing costs without making assumptions either way. Maybe in 20 years my assumption that Japanese engineering is the best engineering will change to as they also decide they can't compete due to high prices and cash in on the assumption that Japanese products are the best engineered even though the products themselves have dropped considerably in quality. The current German model seems to be huge profiteering on spare parts.

    Don't get me wrong there are still great German products it's just the assumption nowadays that anything German is good is ridiculous they have both good and bad manufacturing quality. Every country of Europe I'm sure has both great engineering companies and appalling ones.
  • robert88robert88 Posts: 2,696
    I've a bicycle that's British. It was made 32 years ago. When I say bicycle I guess that has to mean mostly just the frame now.

    It was designed by Barry Hoban and built by a co-operative of ex-coal miners. Or something like that.

    A bicycle made by ex-coal miners is a lot more eco-friendly than a boiler.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,713
    Robert88 wrote:
    I've a bicycle that's British. It was made 32 years ago. When I say bicycle I guess that has to mean mostly just the frame now.

    It was designed by Barry Hoban and built by a co-operative of ex-coal miners. Or something like that.

    A bicycle made by ex-coal miners is a lot more eco-friendly than a boiler.

    Difficult to heat your home with it, though. Or ride a boiler to work for that matter.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 7,296
    Or put another jumper on and walk to work.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • norvernrobnorvernrob Posts: 1,431
    Capt Slog wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:

    Boilers are only intended to have a 10-15yr lifespan so if it is approaching that then it has done its bit.

    oh :oops:

    Just shows the shite they make these days. We replaced our old boiler last year purely because it was inefficient, but it was 45 years old and worked perfectly.
  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,482
    I've tried wearing a jumper in a cold bath, I still feel really cold and it's harder to wash my armpits.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,713
    NorvernRob wrote:
    Capt Slog wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:

    Boilers are only intended to have a 10-15yr lifespan so if it is approaching that then it has done its bit.

    oh :oops:

    Just shows the shite they make these days. We replaced our old boiler last year purely because it was inefficient, but it was 45 years old and worked perfectly.

    Apart from chucking half the heat generated up the flue. :)
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,559
    Found the BG cover useless. Our old back boiler went and we called them out. They wouldn't touch it because the ventilation in our 40 year old house didn't comply with the latest Building Regs. Instead they condemned the boiler and turned it off in the middle of winter with a young child undergoing chemo at the time. Worked out in the end as our daughter was getting DLA so we were able to have the boiler replaced for free luckily.
  • robert88robert88 Posts: 2,696
    Pross wrote:
    Found the BG cover useless. Our old back boiler went and we called them out. They wouldn't touch it because the ventilation in our 40 year old house didn't comply with the latest Building Regs. Instead they condemned the boiler and turned it off in the middle of winter with a young child undergoing chemo at the time. Worked out in the end as our daughter was getting DLA so we were able to have the boiler replaced for free luckily.


    Did you still have to fix the ventilation issue? The engineer checks our ventilation routinely. It's just a hole in the floor really. Boilers can kill so It is necessary. I can imagine BG being unhelpful though, I.wouldn't let them in the house.
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,559
    Robert88 wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Found the BG cover useless. Our old back boiler went and we called them out. They wouldn't touch it because the ventilation in our 40 year old house didn't comply with the latest Building Regs. Instead they condemned the boiler and turned it off in the middle of winter with a young child undergoing chemo at the time. Worked out in the end as our daughter was getting DLA so we were able to have the boiler replaced for free luckily.


    Did you still have to fix the ventilation issue? The engineer checks our ventilation routinely. It's just a hole in the floor really. Boilers can kill so It is necessary. I can imagine BG being unhelpful though, I.wouldn't let them in the house.

    When the boiler was changed it had a new flue installed in the roof. The previous back boiler relied on a chimney and vent in the wall that didn't have sufficient area for 2010 building regs but was presumably fine when the house was built and boiler installed in 1972.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,713
    In 1972 - pre-oil crisis - nobody gave much thought to draughts; if it was cold you just turned the heating up. Once fuel costs had rocketed, people started worrying a lot more about insulating and draughtproofing homes. That saved on heating bills but dramatically reduced the degree of ventilation in homes. With this reduced ventilation, any type of boiler or open fire that takes combustion air from the room becomes unsafe as it relies on people remembering not to obstruct air bricks, etc.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • secretsamsecretsam Posts: 4,864
    earth wrote:
    Had the Valiant boiler serviced this morning. Was loosing pressure over a period of a month and it was found that a valve was weeping. Came to £372 to fix. That's the second large bill for that boiler. First was for £500 to replace internal rubber connecting hoses that were perished for copper pipes.

    German products.

    Perished pipes suggests it's old. 15 years max, then it's new boiler time.

    It's just a hill. Get over it.
  • awaveyawavey Posts: 2,368
    rjsterry wrote:
    In 1972 - pre-oil crisis - nobody gave much thought to draughts; if it was cold you just turned the heating up. Once fuel costs had rocketed, people started worrying a lot more about insulating and draughtproofing homes. That saved on heating bills but dramatically reduced the degree of ventilation in homes. With this reduced ventilation, any type of boiler or open fire that takes combustion air from the room becomes unsafe as it relies on people remembering not to obstruct air bricks, etc.

    they drilled a tea plate size hole in the room where my back boiler is when I had the house insulated, Ive never found the previous ventilation hole they claimed appears in the garden somewhere
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,713
    awavey wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    In 1972 - pre-oil crisis - nobody gave much thought to draughts; if it was cold you just turned the heating up. Once fuel costs had rocketed, people started worrying a lot more about insulating and draughtproofing homes. That saved on heating bills but dramatically reduced the degree of ventilation in homes. With this reduced ventilation, any type of boiler or open fire that takes combustion air from the room becomes unsafe as it relies on people remembering not to obstruct air bricks, etc.

    they drilled a tea plate size hole in the room where my back boiler is when I had the house insulated, Ive never found the previous ventilation hole they claimed appears in the garden somewhere

    This is the thing: to achieve sufficient air flow you need quite a big hole in the wall. Which creates a hell of a draught, so people tend to block them up... then wonder why the plumber condemns their boiler.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,559
    rjsterry wrote:
    awavey wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    In 1972 - pre-oil crisis - nobody gave much thought to draughts; if it was cold you just turned the heating up. Once fuel costs had rocketed, people started worrying a lot more about insulating and draughtproofing homes. That saved on heating bills but dramatically reduced the degree of ventilation in homes. With this reduced ventilation, any type of boiler or open fire that takes combustion air from the room becomes unsafe as it relies on people remembering not to obstruct air bricks, etc.

    they drilled a tea plate size hole in the room where my back boiler is when I had the house insulated, Ive never found the previous ventilation hole they claimed appears in the garden somewhere

    This is the thing: to achieve sufficient air flow you need quite a big hole in the wall. Which creates a hell of a draught, so people tend to block them up... then wonder why the plumber condemns their boiler.

    Don't know about that but in my case the original was still there just not big enough to meet current building regs. The boiler had been serviced several times by BG and others without lack of ventilation being raised as an issue. When I first moved in the hole was papered over and the first I knew of it was when I was stripping the wall paper and my hand went straight through it into the cavity where I found a dormant wasps nest!

    As with any insurance policy the first thing the company try to do is find a way to avoid paying out and with BG that involved applying modern standards to an old system as a reason not to fix it at their cost.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,713
    Pross wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    awavey wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    In 1972 - pre-oil crisis - nobody gave much thought to draughts; if it was cold you just turned the heating up. Once fuel costs had rocketed, people started worrying a lot more about insulating and draughtproofing homes. That saved on heating bills but dramatically reduced the degree of ventilation in homes. With this reduced ventilation, any type of boiler or open fire that takes combustion air from the room becomes unsafe as it relies on people remembering not to obstruct air bricks, etc.

    they drilled a tea plate size hole in the room where my back boiler is when I had the house insulated, Ive never found the previous ventilation hole they claimed appears in the garden somewhere

    This is the thing: to achieve sufficient air flow you need quite a big hole in the wall. Which creates a hell of a draught, so people tend to block them up... then wonder why the plumber condemns their boiler.

    Don't know about that but in my case the original was still there just not big enough to meet current building regs. The boiler had been serviced several times by BG and others without lack of ventilation being raised as an issue. When I first moved in the hole was papered over and the first I knew of it was when I was stripping the wall paper and my hand went straight through it into the cavity where I found a dormant wasps nest!

    As with any insurance policy the first thing the company try to do is find a way to avoid paying out and with BG that involved applying modern standards to an old system as a reason not to fix it at their cost.

    In BG's defence the regs have been tightened up relatively recently.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • robert88robert88 Posts: 2,696
    Pross wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    awavey wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    In 1972 - pre-oil crisis - nobody gave much thought to draughts; if it was cold you just turned the heating up. Once fuel costs had rocketed, people started worrying a lot more about insulating and draughtproofing homes. That saved on heating bills but dramatically reduced the degree of ventilation in homes. With this reduced ventilation, any type of boiler or open fire that takes combustion air from the room becomes unsafe as it relies on people remembering not to obstruct air bricks, etc.

    they drilled a tea plate size hole in the room where my back boiler is when I had the house insulated, Ive never found the previous ventilation hole they claimed appears in the garden somewhere

    This is the thing: to achieve sufficient air flow you need quite a big hole in the wall. Which creates a hell of a draught, so people tend to block them up... then wonder why the plumber condemns their boiler.

    Don't know about that but in my case the original was still there just not big enough to meet current building regs. The boiler had been serviced several times by BG and others without lack of ventilation being raised as an issue. When I first moved in the hole was papered over and the first I knew of it was when I was stripping the wall paper and my hand went straight through it into the cavity where I found a dormant wasps nest!

    As with any insurance policy the first thing the company try to do is find a way to avoid paying out and with BG that involved applying modern standards to an old system as a reason not to fix it at their cost.

    ..and maybe get the opportunity to fit a modern one for (IME) a lot more than their nearest rival.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,749
    Robert88 wrote:
    ..and maybe get the opportunity to fit a modern one for (IME) a lot more than their nearest rival.
    My experience was to get a few quotes from Corgi registered plumbers to compare to BG.
    Doubt I will ever be a direct BG customer ever again. Rip off merchants trading on history.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
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