Overrated, Overpriced, Inferior Quality

earth

Had the Valiant boiler serviced this morning. Was loosing pressure over a period of a month and it was found that a valve was weeping. Came to £372 to fix. That's the second large bill for that boiler. First was for £500 to replace internal rubber connecting hoses that were perished for copper pipes.

German products.

robert88

earth wrote:

Had the Valiant boiler serviced this morning. Was loosing pressure over a period of a month and it was found that a valve was weeping. Came to £372 to fix. That's the second large bill for that boiler. First was for £500 to replace internal rubber connecting hoses that were perished for copper pipes.

German products.

Vaillant?

Ve haf ze Weissmann. Zehr gut!

capt_slog

earth wrote:

Had the Valiant boiler serviced this morning. Was loosing pressure over a period of a month and it was found that a valve was weeping. Came to £372 to fix. That's the second large bill for that boiler. First was for £500 to replace internal rubber connecting hoses that were perished for copper pipes.

German products.

Just for interest, how old is it?

earth

Capt Slog wrote:

earth wrote:

Had the Valiant boiler serviced this morning. Was loosing pressure over a period of a month and it was found that a valve was weeping. Came to £372 to fix. That's the second large bill for that boiler. First was for £500 to replace internal rubber connecting hoses that were perished for copper pipes.

German products.

Just for interest, how old is it?

Well it's a bit like Trigger's broom

rolf_f

And I thought this was a thread about iPhones....!

earth

Rolf F wrote:

And I thought this was a thread about iPhones....!

Never had one but perhaps it could be

FocusZing

Rolf F wrote:

And I thought this was a thread about iPhones....!

I thought it was about Brexit.

mr_goo

Take out Brit Gas service contract. It might cost you £200 to 300 per year but done monthly treat it as an insurance. Covers your whole heating system and all parts and labour plus a service every year. None of those horrid big bills. It's peace of mind and you'll get an engineer within 24hrs.

I've had new hotwater tank and header tank out of it.

rjsterry

earth wrote:

Capt Slog wrote:

earth wrote:

Had the Valiant boiler serviced this morning. Was loosing pressure over a period of a month and it was found that a valve was weeping. Came to £372 to fix. That's the second large bill for that boiler. First was for £500 to replace internal rubber connecting hoses that were perished for copper pipes.

German products.

Just for interest, how old is it?

Well it's a bit like Trigger's broom

Boilers are only intended to have a 10-15yr lifespan so if it is approaching that then it has done its bit.

rolf_f

Not that it helps here but Vokera have a nice line in fixed price repairs. You pay a couple of hundred quid and they repair everything that needs repairing up to about £550 in parts and unlimited labour. If it's a screw needing replacing you do badly but if your boiler (like mine) needs a stack of repairs then it works out a real bargain. I pretty much maxed out the parts cost and had the bloke spend a couple of hours fixing it.
I don't spend anything else. It's a bit like Mr Goos contract only you only pay for it when you need it.
It's worth double checking that Vailiant doesn't do the same. For me it's a strong incentive to stick with Vokera; certainly I wouldn't buy from a manufacturer that didn't offer this whilst Vokera does.

I think my boiler must be at least 15 years old by now! I doubt I'll have another repair on it as the flue is rusted and strictly speaking it is slightly dodgy; they won't fix it again but the part apparently isn't available.

step83

Mr Goo wrote:

Take out Brit Gas service contract. It might cost you £200 to 300 per year but done monthly treat it as an insurance. Covers your whole heating system and all parts and labour plus a service every year. None of those horrid big bills. It's peace of mind and you'll get an engineer within 24hrs.

I've had new hotwater tank and header tank out of it.

We had the BG cover but had no end of trouble actually getting them to service it, ended up waiting 18 months for the annual service by which point I ended up doing a standard call out as the pilot wouldnt ignite. Was just a build up or crud around the pilot light electrode or similar.
the BG engineer then told me I should have it serviced annually to stop the build up. I showed him my service plan and he went a bit quiet.

Swapped to CORGI boiler plan an had no problems since.

capt_slog

rjsterry wrote:

Boilers are only intended to have a 10-15yr lifespan so if it is approaching that then it has done its bit.

oh :oops:

earth

I used to be with BG for gas and electricity way back when I first rented a flat. It was above a shop and I realised I had been reading the wrong meter when I had to quote. I ended up hundreds in credit on my account. When the mistake came to light BG said they would send a cheque. Never got one then they said I had spent all the over payments on gas during the winter months. Then when I complained that I was still overpaying and accruing credit they said they only evaluated the payments every six months or every three months if it was in their favour. Whenever I submitted a meter reading before the six month evaluation they ignored it. Never returned to BG but boiler cover did spring to mind this morning. I'm selling the house though so anything I do will be in relation to the new property.

bonzo_banana

earth wrote:

Had the Valiant boiler serviced this morning. Was loosing pressure over a period of a month and it was found that a valve was weeping. Came to £372 to fix. That's the second large bill for that boiler. First was for £500 to replace internal rubber connecting hoses that were perished for copper pipes.

German products.

I used to think the same about German stuff but seems like quality has dropped hugely and nowadays they are some of the worst products for quality vs value especially as repair costs seem so uncompetitive.

https://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer

Also BMW are the least reliable motorbikes.

MIele while reliable have horrific and uncompetitive repair costs.

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.miele.co.uk

Not so much an issue with bicycles though because most of the German brand bikes are pretty much made in the far east with only assembly in Germany, sometimes they only get boxed in Germany to get a 'Made in Germany' sticker. The EU was going to stop it but never did instead pretty much all European manufacturers make great efforts to conceal the real manufacturing location nowadays.

https://www.businessinsider.com/made-in ... 012-1?IR=T

I take the view the best engineered stuff is Japanese and if I'm not buying Japanese I make more effort to actually check what has the best reliability, value and servicing costs without making assumptions either way. Maybe in 20 years my assumption that Japanese engineering is the best engineering will change to as they also decide they can't compete due to high prices and cash in on the assumption that Japanese products are the best engineered even though the products themselves have dropped considerably in quality. The current German model seems to be huge profiteering on spare parts.

Don't get me wrong there are still great German products it's just the assumption nowadays that anything German is good is ridiculous they have both good and bad manufacturing quality. Every country of Europe I'm sure has both great engineering companies and appalling ones.

robert88

I've a bicycle that's British. It was made 32 years ago. When I say bicycle I guess that has to mean mostly just the frame now.

It was designed by Barry Hoban and built by a co-operative of ex-coal miners. Or something like that.

A bicycle made by ex-coal miners is a lot more eco-friendly than a boiler.

rjsterry

Robert88 wrote:

I've a bicycle that's British. It was made 32 years ago. When I say bicycle I guess that has to mean mostly just the frame now.

It was designed by Barry Hoban and built by a co-operative of ex-coal miners. Or something like that.

A bicycle made by ex-coal miners is a lot more eco-friendly than a boiler.

Difficult to heat your home with it, though. Or ride a boiler to work for that matter.

DeVlaeminck

Or put another jumper on and walk to work.

norvernrob

Capt Slog wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Boilers are only intended to have a 10-15yr lifespan so if it is approaching that then it has done its bit.

oh :oops:

Just shows the shite they make these days. We replaced our old boiler last year purely because it was inefficient, but it was 45 years old and worked perfectly.

timothyw

I've tried wearing a jumper in a cold bath, I still feel really cold and it's harder to wash my armpits.

rjsterry

NorvernRob wrote:

Capt Slog wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Boilers are only intended to have a 10-15yr lifespan so if it is approaching that then it has done its bit.

oh :oops:

Just shows the shite they make these days. We replaced our old boiler last year purely because it was inefficient, but it was 45 years old and worked perfectly.

Apart from chucking half the heat generated up the flue.

Pross

Found the BG cover useless. Our old back boiler went and we called them out. They wouldn't touch it because the ventilation in our 40 year old house didn't comply with the latest Building Regs. Instead they condemned the boiler and turned it off in the middle of winter with a young child undergoing chemo at the time. Worked out in the end as our daughter was getting DLA so we were able to have the boiler replaced for free luckily.

robert88

Pross wrote:

Found the BG cover useless. Our old back boiler went and we called them out. They wouldn't touch it because the ventilation in our 40 year old house didn't comply with the latest Building Regs. Instead they condemned the boiler and turned it off in the middle of winter with a young child undergoing chemo at the time. Worked out in the end as our daughter was getting DLA so we were able to have the boiler replaced for free luckily.

Did you still have to fix the ventilation issue? The engineer checks our ventilation routinely. It's just a hole in the floor really. Boilers can kill so It is necessary. I can imagine BG being unhelpful though, I.wouldn't let them in the house.

Pross

Robert88 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Found the BG cover useless. Our old back boiler went and we called them out. They wouldn't touch it because the ventilation in our 40 year old house didn't comply with the latest Building Regs. Instead they condemned the boiler and turned it off in the middle of winter with a young child undergoing chemo at the time. Worked out in the end as our daughter was getting DLA so we were able to have the boiler replaced for free luckily.

Did you still have to fix the ventilation issue? The engineer checks our ventilation routinely. It's just a hole in the floor really. Boilers can kill so It is necessary. I can imagine BG being unhelpful though, I.wouldn't let them in the house.

When the boiler was changed it had a new flue installed in the roof. The previous back boiler relied on a chimney and vent in the wall that didn't have sufficient area for 2010 building regs but was presumably fine when the house was built and boiler installed in 1972.

rjsterry

In 1972 - pre-oil crisis - nobody gave much thought to draughts; if it was cold you just turned the heating up. Once fuel costs had rocketed, people started worrying a lot more about insulating and draughtproofing homes. That saved on heating bills but dramatically reduced the degree of ventilation in homes. With this reduced ventilation, any type of boiler or open fire that takes combustion air from the room becomes unsafe as it relies on people remembering not to obstruct air bricks, etc.

secretsam

earth wrote:

Had the Valiant boiler serviced this morning. Was loosing pressure over a period of a month and it was found that a valve was weeping. Came to £372 to fix. That's the second large bill for that boiler. First was for £500 to replace internal rubber connecting hoses that were perished for copper pipes.

German products.

Perished pipes suggests it's old. 15 years max, then it's new boiler time.

awavey

rjsterry wrote:

In 1972 - pre-oil crisis - nobody gave much thought to draughts; if it was cold you just turned the heating up. Once fuel costs had rocketed, people started worrying a lot more about insulating and draughtproofing homes. That saved on heating bills but dramatically reduced the degree of ventilation in homes. With this reduced ventilation, any type of boiler or open fire that takes combustion air from the room becomes unsafe as it relies on people remembering not to obstruct air bricks, etc.

they drilled a tea plate size hole in the room where my back boiler is when I had the house insulated, Ive never found the previous ventilation hole they claimed appears in the garden somewhere

rjsterry

awavey wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

In 1972 - pre-oil crisis - nobody gave much thought to draughts; if it was cold you just turned the heating up. Once fuel costs had rocketed, people started worrying a lot more about insulating and draughtproofing homes. That saved on heating bills but dramatically reduced the degree of ventilation in homes. With this reduced ventilation, any type of boiler or open fire that takes combustion air from the room becomes unsafe as it relies on people remembering not to obstruct air bricks, etc.

they drilled a tea plate size hole in the room where my back boiler is when I had the house insulated, Ive never found the previous ventilation hole they claimed appears in the garden somewhere

This is the thing: to achieve sufficient air flow you need quite a big hole in the wall. Which creates a hell of a draught, so people tend to block them up... then wonder why the plumber condemns their boiler.

Pross

rjsterry wrote:

awavey wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

In 1972 - pre-oil crisis - nobody gave much thought to draughts; if it was cold you just turned the heating up. Once fuel costs had rocketed, people started worrying a lot more about insulating and draughtproofing homes. That saved on heating bills but dramatically reduced the degree of ventilation in homes. With this reduced ventilation, any type of boiler or open fire that takes combustion air from the room becomes unsafe as it relies on people remembering not to obstruct air bricks, etc.

they drilled a tea plate size hole in the room where my back boiler is when I had the house insulated, Ive never found the previous ventilation hole they claimed appears in the garden somewhere

This is the thing: to achieve sufficient air flow you need quite a big hole in the wall. Which creates a hell of a draught, so people tend to block them up... then wonder why the plumber condemns their boiler.

Don't know about that but in my case the original was still there just not big enough to meet current building regs. The boiler had been serviced several times by BG and others without lack of ventilation being raised as an issue. When I first moved in the hole was papered over and the first I knew of it was when I was stripping the wall paper and my hand went straight through it into the cavity where I found a dormant wasps nest!

As with any insurance policy the first thing the company try to do is find a way to avoid paying out and with BG that involved applying modern standards to an old system as a reason not to fix it at their cost.

rjsterry

Pross wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

awavey wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

In 1972 - pre-oil crisis - nobody gave much thought to draughts; if it was cold you just turned the heating up. Once fuel costs had rocketed, people started worrying a lot more about insulating and draughtproofing homes. That saved on heating bills but dramatically reduced the degree of ventilation in homes. With this reduced ventilation, any type of boiler or open fire that takes combustion air from the room becomes unsafe as it relies on people remembering not to obstruct air bricks, etc.

they drilled a tea plate size hole in the room where my back boiler is when I had the house insulated, Ive never found the previous ventilation hole they claimed appears in the garden somewhere

This is the thing: to achieve sufficient air flow you need quite a big hole in the wall. Which creates a hell of a draught, so people tend to block them up... then wonder why the plumber condemns their boiler.

Don't know about that but in my case the original was still there just not big enough to meet current building regs. The boiler had been serviced several times by BG and others without lack of ventilation being raised as an issue. When I first moved in the hole was papered over and the first I knew of it was when I was stripping the wall paper and my hand went straight through it into the cavity where I found a dormant wasps nest!

As with any insurance policy the first thing the company try to do is find a way to avoid paying out and with BG that involved applying modern standards to an old system as a reason not to fix it at their cost.

In BG's defence the regs have been tightened up relatively recently.

robert88

Pross wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

awavey wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

In 1972 - pre-oil crisis - nobody gave much thought to draughts; if it was cold you just turned the heating up. Once fuel costs had rocketed, people started worrying a lot more about insulating and draughtproofing homes. That saved on heating bills but dramatically reduced the degree of ventilation in homes. With this reduced ventilation, any type of boiler or open fire that takes combustion air from the room becomes unsafe as it relies on people remembering not to obstruct air bricks, etc.

they drilled a tea plate size hole in the room where my back boiler is when I had the house insulated, Ive never found the previous ventilation hole they claimed appears in the garden somewhere

This is the thing: to achieve sufficient air flow you need quite a big hole in the wall. Which creates a hell of a draught, so people tend to block them up... then wonder why the plumber condemns their boiler.

Don't know about that but in my case the original was still there just not big enough to meet current building regs. The boiler had been serviced several times by BG and others without lack of ventilation being raised as an issue. When I first moved in the hole was papered over and the first I knew of it was when I was stripping the wall paper and my hand went straight through it into the cavity where I found a dormant wasps nest!

As with any insurance policy the first thing the company try to do is find a way to avoid paying out and with BG that involved applying modern standards to an old system as a reason not to fix it at their cost.

..and maybe get the opportunity to fit a modern one for (IME) a lot more than their nearest rival.

pblakeney

Robert88 wrote:

..and maybe get the opportunity to fit a modern one for (IME) a lot more than their nearest rival.

My experience was to get a few quotes from Corgi registered plumbers to compare to BG.
Doubt I will ever be a direct BG customer ever again. Rip off merchants trading on history.