Which DD turbo?

aserota

Hey all,

I've been turbo training on a non-smart rig for the last 3 years (when the weather's horrid) and it's time to get into zwift. The market's flooded with new smart direct drive turbos so I'm a little lost in terms of what's actually good Vs better marketed.

The tacx flux looks pretty great, but for half the cost I can get a Elite Turbo Muin Smart trainer. Is the elite good enough for the average Joe or is it worth spending £500+ on a Tacx or Kickr model? I've read a lot of reviews but am interested in real world reviews from non pro riders!

StillGoing

Direct Drive is better than wheel on.

Top end direct drive is better than lower end direct drive.

The TACX Neo is the one to get if you want hassle free use with no need to calibrate, high resistance and gradient simulation, quick response and quite running. Yes it's expensive, but search for complaints about all of the turbos and you'll find the Neo is barely mentioned, if at all.

wongataa

I have had no issues with my Elite Direto.

scotlandtim

wongataa wrote:

I have had no issues with my Elite Direto.

Elite Direto not a truly "smart" trainer though? ERG only, no smart resistance>?

joey54321

I love my Neo, I don't do Zwift but have no complaints about it. I tried a Wahoo Kickr and sent it back before I got the Neo.

alex222

The Muin is infamous for massively over-reading wattage.
I have an Elite Direto, which I am pleased with, but the Wahoo Kickr Core looks like the best value for money option at the moment.

StillGoing

I've had and wasted money on;

A TACX Bushido Smart - terrible in every sense of the word.
An Elite Kura Fluid "smart" - not truly smart
An Elite Direto - Suffered with connection loss, over resistance and communication issues with Elite

Now have a TACX Neo - perfect

hairy_boy

I bought the Elite Drivo back in February discounted from Halfords - still £650 and I got my British Cycling discount off that at my local halfords, so I paid £585.

https://www.halfords.com/cycling/turbo- ... bo-trainer

Worth a look, I've used it with Trainerroad (not Zwift) and been very happy with it.

wongataa

scotlandtim wrote:

wongataa wrote:

I have had no issues with my Elite Direto.

Elite Direto not a truly "smart" trainer though? ERG only, no smart resistance>?

What do you mean by 'smart resistance'?

N0bodyOfTheGoat

scotlandtim wrote:

wongataa wrote:

I have had no issues with my Elite Direto.

Elite Direto not a truly "smart" trainer though? ERG only, no smart resistance>?

Direto will simulate slopes up to 14% slope, it's why I got one, due to best simulation for my absolute highest budget at time of purchase.

chris_bass

Hairy Boy wrote:

I bought the Elite Drivo back in February discounted from Halfords - still £650 and I got my British Cycling discount off that at my local halfords, so I paid £585.

https://www.halfords.com/cycling/turbo- ... bo-trainer

Worth a look, I've used it with Trainerroad (not Zwift) and been very happy with it.

I also have one of these but i find the resistance changes to be very laggy and can often miss quick changes in gradient in zwift.

Compared to the tacx neo and even the original flux it is really noticeable. (i spend too much money on bike stuff!!)

Erg mode isn't the best on it either

it is ok but quite old now and showing it's age.

hairy_boy

Chris Bass wrote:

Hairy Boy wrote:

I bought the Elite Drivo back in February discounted from Halfords - still £650 and I got my British Cycling discount off that at my local halfords, so I paid £585.

https://www.halfords.com/cycling/turbo- ... bo-trainer

Worth a look, I've used it with Trainerroad (not Zwift) and been very happy with it.

I also have one of these but i find the resistance changes to be very laggy and can often miss quick changes in gradient in zwift.

Compared to the tacx neo and even the original flux it is really noticeable. (i spend too much money on bike stuff!!)

Erg mode isn't the best on it either

it is ok but quite old now and showing it's age.

Not used it with anything other than Trainerroad in ERG mode and found it to be great - but not got your experience of comparison with the Flux or Neo with Zwift.

Annoyingly it sounds like any issues it has with Zwift could be ironed out with a firmware update if Elite pulled their finger out.

bigmitch41

Happy with my Kickr

chris_bass

Hairy Boy wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

Hairy Boy wrote:

I bought the Elite Drivo back in February discounted from Halfords - still £650 and I got my British Cycling discount off that at my local halfords, so I paid £585.

https://www.halfords.com/cycling/turbo- ... bo-trainer

Worth a look, I've used it with Trainerroad (not Zwift) and been very happy with it.

I also have one of these but i find the resistance changes to be very laggy and can often miss quick changes in gradient in zwift.

Compared to the tacx neo and even the original flux it is really noticeable. (i spend too much money on bike stuff!!)

Erg mode isn't the best on it either

it is ok but quite old now and showing it's age.

Not used it with anything other than Trainerroad in ERG mode and found it to be great - but not got your experience of comparison with the Flux or Neo with Zwift.

Annoyingly it sounds like any issues it has with Zwift could be ironed out with a firmware update if Elite pulled their finger out.

i don't think it can, it is to do with the way it changes resistance, it uses a motor to move something in and out (hence the robotic noise when it starts up and changes between erg modes) and i don't think it can move much faster.

Erg mode is ok as long as you don't change resistance quickly, 30 second intervals seems to be about the limit, and keep your cadence steady

norvernrob

scotlandtim wrote:

wongataa wrote:

I have had no issues with my Elite Direto.

Elite Direto not a truly "smart" trainer though? ERG only, no smart resistance>?

Direto is as ‘smart’ as any other smart trainer. Works with everything. I used to use mine with Trainerroad, now with Zwift. Never had a dropout or any other issue with it in over a year of use, and the power matches my Power2max within a couple of watts. It’s been a great buy.

super_davo

NorvernRob wrote:

scotlandtim wrote:

wongataa wrote:

I have had no issues with my Elite Direto.

Elite Direto not a truly "smart" trainer though? ERG only, no smart resistance>?

Direto is as ‘smart’ as any other smart trainer. Works with everything. I used to use mine with Trainerroad, now with Zwift. Never had a dropout or any other issue with it in over a year of use, and the power matches my Power2max within a couple of watts. It’s been a great buy.

+1 on the Direto, had mine 15 months and it has been great.

Dropouts are as much to do with the device its connected to as the trainer itself. I've had dropouts on my old Android TV box, never on my new one or phone and never on my PC. Don't think it is an endemic issue.

Though if I were in the market today I would definitely get an £860 Neo1, best bang for buck right now.

StillGoing

super_davo wrote:

NorvernRob wrote:

scotlandtim wrote:

wongataa wrote:

I have had no issues with my Elite Direto.

Elite Direto not a truly "smart" trainer though? ERG only, no smart resistance>?

Direto is as ‘smart’ as any other smart trainer. Works with everything. I used to use mine with Trainerroad, now with Zwift. Never had a dropout or any other issue with it in over a year of use, and the power matches my Power2max within a couple of watts. It’s been a great buy.

+1 on the Direto, had mine 15 months and it has been great.

Dropouts are as much to do with the device its connected to as the trainer itself. I've had dropouts on my old Android TV box, never on my new one or phone and never on my PC. Don't think it is an endemic issue.

Though if I were in the market today I would definitely get an £860 Neo1, best bang for buck right now.

Not true in my case. Never suffered a drop out with the Bushido, Kura or the Neo, but the Dirt I had had them regularly. TrainerRoad, Sufferfest even Zwift had connection issues. The response to increases in slope/power was way too slow to do any kind of short interval work too. The Neo has been the best bang for buck trainer by far. Yes it's expensive, but you do get what you pay for.

dannbodge

I've had a Flux (well 3 of them) and a Neo.

The Neo is incredible. Super quiet, can do wattages down to single figures (others have a floor that they can't go below), super responsive and tonnes of resistance.

I've never had a dropout in 2 years, and some of that time is 5 rides a week (always had the ANT+ dongle on an extension lead, sat next to the trainer)

FatTed

I have a Neo.it is very good and not noisy like my Le Mond! I use it for sufferfest and Big Ring VR. It takes a bit of time change power if its very large like some of the 10 second sprints in the Sufferfest videos, but it mostly tracks pretty well.

dowtcha

Sportpursuit has a Direto for 460.

https://www.sportpursuit.com/catalog/product/view/id/1704206?click=eyJxdWVyeSI6InR1cmJvIiwicGFnZSI6MSwicGFnZVNpemUiOjE4LCJwb3MiOjV9

londoncommuter

Dowtcha wrote:

Sportpursuit has a Direto for 460.

https://www.sportpursuit.com/catalog/product/view/id/1704206?click=eyJxdWVyeSI6InR1cmJvIiwicGFnZSI6MSwicGFnZVNpemUiOjE4LCJwb3MiOjV9

Apologies for asking for basic guidance but I could drown in reviews for turbos! I was mulling over getting a semi reasonable turbo and notice as Tacx Vortexs seem to be being dumped new for well under £200 they seemed a good option. How much better is it to go to £450 for one of these? How much better is it to go to silly money for a high end direct turbo?

Money is "no object" in that I don't want to scrimp to have to upgrade later but if it's diminishing returns and they don't practically offer that much more then there's no point wasting it.

Will probably be able leave a bike permanently on it and no idea what software I'd use yet. Probably a more training focused thing than Zwift (although never used it so maybe unfair). Not that bothered about noise. Too busy to be faffing with warranties and sending back so reliability is important.

Thanks

StillGoing

The TACX Vortex being a wheel on turbo will not be as good as a DD turbo in terms of response, feel and almost certainly resistance.

The Elite Direto has suffered with good and bad ownership. In my experience with it, it was slow to respond to resistance changes in ERG mode for short intervals and overcompensated with represented gradients making 3% feel more like 10%. I also suffered with repeated dropouts via BTE and ANT+ no matter which software programs I used. Communication with Elite Support was at best problematic. I'd describe it as a high mid range DD turbo.

The NEO ver 1 or 2 is the best turbo for me and at the top of the high end turbo tree. No calibration issues and bang on in comparison tests with power meters. Almost instantaneous response to resistance changes and pretty accurate gradient representation. Quiet as anything also. It can also be used outdoors with no power source up to 220 watts. With the ver 2 now released, old stock ver 1 NEOs can be picked up pretty cheap and not far off the £450 quoted for a Direto. The downside of the NEO is its size and weight. I have the room for a permanent set up so it isn't an issue for me. If you've got to put it away after use every time you've used it, you may be better off with the KickR. The NEO also doesn't pair correctly with Wahoo head units, but then neither does the direto. In fact, only Kickr turbos seem to.

londoncommuter

philthy3 wrote:

The TACX Vortex being a wheel on turbo will not be as good as a DD turbo in terms of response, feel and almost certainly resistance.

The Elite Direto has suffered with good and bad ownership. In my experience with it, it was slow to respond to resistance changes in ERG mode for short intervals and overcompensated with represented gradients making 3% feel more like 10%. I also suffered with repeated dropouts via BTE and ANT+ no matter which software programs I used. Communication with Elite Support was at best problematic. I'd describe it as a high mid range DD turbo.

The NEO ver 1 or 2 is the best turbo for me and at the top of the high end turbo tree. No calibration issues and bang on in comparison tests with power meters. Almost instantaneous response to resistance changes and pretty accurate gradient representation. Quiet as anything also. It can also be used outdoors with no power source up to 220 watts. With the ver 2 now released, old stock ver 1 NEOs can be picked up pretty cheap and not far off the £450 quoted for a Direto. The downside of the NEO is its size and weight. I have the room for a permanent set up so it isn't an issue for me. If you've got to put it away after use every time you've used it, you may be better off with the KickR. The NEO also doesn't pair correctly with Wahoo head units, but then neither does the direto. In fact, only Kickr turbos seem to.

Wow - where are they that price (maybe PM me if there's one left )

Thanks for the feedback either way. Guess I should have added, I don't have a separate power meter.

wongataa

londoncommuter wrote:

Wow - where are they that price (maybe PM me if there's one left )

Thanks for the feedback either way. Guess I should have added, I don't have a separate power meter.

The direct drive smart turbos such as the Direto & Neo will also have way more accurate internal power meters than wheel on trainers.

woodythecaddie

Never had any complaints with Wahoo kickr. You should maybe look at a second hand one