Can I get better trail bike than Boardman MHT 8.9 for the same price?

peug26

Looking to get my first bike and following advice on this forum I'm looking at a HT 29" around the £1000 pricemark.

So far I have looked at the Voodoo Bizango but I can't stand the neon orage colour it comes in so it's out of the question.
The Boardman MHT 8.9 looks like a decent option but before pulling the plug I wanted to check if there are any other brands/models I should consider? Maybe Vitus Sentier VR+?

I assume there won't be a 2019 geometry for the Boardman any time soon either?

figbat

How about the B-Twin Rockrider XC500? It has a shorter travel fork but is lighter than the Boardman and comes with a 1x12 drive train.

cowsham

Yes you can -- buy the cube acid it's lighter and has better equipment -- find a dealer with last years model and you'll get it for under £700 or sometimes under £600 -- if your bordering on a size/fit go for the smaller frame -- the opposite of what you'd be doing when buying a road bike.

billycool

Vitus?
Calibre?

Plenty of good options for a HT for £1000

JBA

The 2018 Marin Nail Trail 7 gets great reviews and is available for £999 from Paul's Cycles.
27.5 is available in Small and Medium and the 29er is only available in XL though.

peug26

Cowsham wrote:

Yes you can -- buy the cube acid it's lighter and has better equipment -- find a dealer with last years model and you'll get it for under £700 or sometimes under £600 -- if your bordering on a size/fit go for the smaller frame -- the opposite of what you'd be doing when buying a road bike.

How does the cube acid compare to the rest mentioned here? Particularly against Vitus and Marin?

figbat wrote:

How about the B-Twin Rockrider XC500? It has a shorter travel fork but is lighter than the Boardman and comes with a 1x12 drive train.

The one I can see has a 1x11 drive train

BillyCool wrote:

Vitus?
Calibre?

Plenty of good options for a HT for £1000

Which models please? And would they be better than the others mentioned here? I have read good reviews about the Vitus Sentier VR if that's what you mean? Or perhaps the Vitus Sentier VRS which looks rather nice in that metallic red (if that's what it is). The Calibre I have noticed is the Bossnut Evo but that is a FS.

JBA wrote:

The 2018 Marin Nail Trail 7 gets great reviews and is available for £999 from Paul's Cycles.
27.5 is available in Small and Medium and the 29er is only available in XL though.

I like that 29er but unfortunately the XL would probably be too big for me. I'm between 5'10" - 5'11" tall.

figbat

Peug26 wrote:

figbat wrote:

How about the B-Twin Rockrider XC500? It has a shorter travel fork but is lighter than the Boardman and comes with a 1x12 drive train.

The one I can see has a 1x11 drive train

This one states:

DRIVE TRAIN
Stay focused on your effort with this single chainwheel and SRAM Eagle technology
SRAM EAGLE GX drive train, 1x12 single chainwheel, for lighter weight, more precision, faster gear changing, and greater durability.
Easily replaceable 34 tooth chainwheel (limited to 36 teeth)
SRAM PG1230 cassette with 12 cogs: 11, 13, 15 ,17, 19, 22, 25, 28, 32, 36, 42, 50 teeth. The 50-tooth sprocket guarantees good gear reduction to help you climb the steepest sections

billycool

Vitus option at your price point. Yes, it's the VR.

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vit ... prod173162

Calibre - this is the review but can't find it in stock on their web-site:

https://www.mbr.co.uk/reviews/hardtail/ ... -10-review

Most bikes at the same price point will have similar specs. It's then down to you to try a few (where possible) to see what fits YOU. What we like is irrelevant to an extent, as it needs to work for what you want.

peug26

Can I check with you guys: do I definitely need a 29er? My riding will be mainly on towpaths and relatively flat terrains (not main road). I still am not quite sure what the differences are between a 27.5” and 29” tyre. I mean, I know that 29 is faster but is that all? Does the tyre size meaan that the bike geometry will be different too?

Might I be better with a 27.5 which is compatible with 29”? I am looking at the Vitus Sentier VRS...

peug26

JBA wrote:

The 2018 Marin Nail Trail 7 gets great reviews and is available for £999 from Paul's Cycles.
27.5 is available in Small and Medium and the 29er is only available in XL though.

Just heard back from them and the L won’t be back in stock. They’ve advised me to check the Giant Fathom 1 27.5” which seems to have drcent spec?

steve_sordy

Peug26 wrote:

Can I check with you guys: do I definitely need a 29er? My riding will be mainly on towpaths and relatively flat terrains (not main road). I still am not quite sure what the differences are between a 27.5” and 29” tyre. I mean, I know that 29 is faster but is that all? Does the tyre size meaan that the bike geometry will be different too?

Might I be better with a 27.5 which is compatible with 29”? I am looking at the Vitus Sentier VRS...

You have asked some simple questions, the answers are not simple though.

I don't believe that anyone definitely needs a 29er.

The difference between 27.5 and 29 is the wheel's diameter with the tyre on. It is not exactly 27.5 either, being closer to 26 than 29, but is called that because 27.5 is half way between 26 and 29 (the other two main wheel sizes) so that's close enough; we all know what is meant. In addition, which tyre you choose alters the overall measured diameter. Shortly after the 27.5 wheels first came out my mate got a new bike with them. He said it felt no different to what he rode before. We measured the wheel diameters. He used to have the same tyres as me, and my 26er measured 26.75". His 27.5 wheels with fast rolling low tread tyres measured 27.25. In other words, his new bigger wheels were only ½ an inch larger than before!

Why do people say that 29ers are faster? It is because the larger wheel diameter rolls over obstacles slightly better (its physics). But are they faster? In a straight line, probably. It may be why most of the XC racers use 29er wheels. But what is the downside? For similar tyres, a 29er wheel is heavier and takes more effort to accelerate, slow down and most importantly turn. The differences are marginal and many will say that most people especially beginners will not notice. There have been a lot of studies to try and determine which is faster over a trail. None of the studies I have seen are at all conclusive either way, but as I said above, most XC racers use 29ers.

I once swapped bikes for a few hundred yards with a guy I met on the trail. At the first bend I almost didn’t make it around on his 29er, but I noticed how easily it rolled over the bumpy stuff compared to my 26er. He thought my bike was twitchy, but was blown away at how rapidly it accelerated. Of course, after a short period of acclimatisation, “twitchy” becomes responsive!

As for geometry, yes it will be different. Just adding bigger wheels would raise the bottom bracket and contribute to an unstable feeling on corners. So on 29ers they tend to drop the BB below the centreline of the axles. Early 29ers were criticised for “steering like barges”. In that they tended to plough straight on rather than go round the bend. This was mostly fixed by altering the fork offset to make the steering more responsive. But as I mentioned above, if you get off a 26er and straight onto a 29er you will notice it. A few weeks ago I was riding my 29er with a mate on his 26er. On one section that was very twisty through the woods, he was right on my tail. I was having to strong arm the bike and he was just coasting.
Bigger diameter wheels must increase the minimum length of the chain stay and the shorter the chain stay the easier it is to lift the front of the bike. The positive side of longer chain stays is that the bike is less likely to lose front wheel grip or loop out on steep climbs. Wheel size still has an impact.

Final thoughts. If you really do intend to do only tow paths and relatively flat terrain then get a 29er. But if, within your planned ownership of the bike, you have any ambitions to ride proper MTB terrain then if it’s woodland, get a 27.5, if it’s rocky you could go either way. This is my opinion, not established fact!

I have ridden 26 and 27.5 for years. Right now I only ride a 29er. I could have had the same bike with 27.5+ tyres instead of 29. I chose a 29er mostly because I didn’t want the 2.8” wide tyres and partly because I’d not had a 29er before. Having owned the 29er now for over four months, I believe I should have gone for the 27.5 and put narrower tyres on it, say 2.5” (like I have now).

You refer to bikes that can take 29” wheels or 27.5”. It’s not quite that simple. The 29er will have larger diameter rims and may have 2.3" or 2.4” tyres. The 27.5 will have smaller diameter rims, but they will be wider rims, so that they can take a wider tyre (2.6”-2.8”). The wider rim is required so that the tyre does not roll off the rim when cornering hard. The larger volume tyre will also be a bit taller, so that the overall diameter approaches that of the 29er, which is why the bike geometry works for both, but it will always be a smaller diameter wheel. In addition, the seat and chain stays have to be wider to cope with the wider “plus” tyre of the 27.5+, maybe the fork also. This versatility enables you to keep your options open, but the options are only important if you are going to use that capability in the future. From everything you have posted over the past few weeks, I suspect that is unlikely. So, don’t compromise now for something that you may never ever need. Make a decision and get the best you can. Flexibility of that kind is expensive and will compromise the design of the bike you need now. It will be heavier for starters.

For your stated use, I restate the advice I gave a few weeks ago, get a gravel bike. You don’t have to have the curly bars. Go lightweight and fit bigger volume tyres. You will be blisteringly fast on the towpaths, but with comfort on the trails. Some guys on here will ride gravel bikes over severely rough and rocky trails and do it regularly, for fun! While not my idea of fun, it demonstrates what is possible.

billycool

Peug26 wrote:

Can I check with you guys: do I definitely need a 29er? My riding will be mainly on towpaths and relatively flat terrains (not main road). I still am not quite sure what the differences are between a 27.5” and 29” tyre. I mean, I know that 29 is faster but is that all? Does the tyre size meaan that the bike geometry will be different too?

Might I be better with a 27.5 which is compatible with 29”? I am looking at the Vitus Sentier VRS...

Depends who you ask.

29" take slightly longer to get going but cover the ground faster. Ideal for non-techincal riding and the sort of thing you want to do.

27.5 are slightly smaller (unless using +tyres) and are deemed by some a good compromise between 29" and the `older` 26" format. The smaller 26" wheels are good for quick repsonse and more technical riding. I still ride 26" because I ride tight and twisty XC singletrack and love the way I can throw the bike around. For that type of riding I find 29" a bit too much. 27.5" feels ok but I have so much invested in 26" across 2 bikes, 4 sets of wheels etc, that I'm not going to change.

I have friends who ride the South Downs who love 29'ers. Absolute mile munchers. When we go to Wales once a year and chuck them down big hills, they feel less assured. Arguably, 29" wheels flex a little more but again it's hardly noticeable for others. 29" cover the ground really well but just struggle on the tighter and twistier stuff.

There is a wheel size for every occassion/terrain and no right/wrong answer.

cowsham

Peug26 wrote:

Cowsham wrote:

Yes you can -- buy the cube acid it's lighter and has better equipment -- find a dealer with last years model and you'll get it for under £700 or sometimes under £600 -- if your bordering on a size/fit go for the smaller frame -- the opposite of what you'd be doing when buying a road bike.

How does the cube acid compare to the rest mentioned here? Particularly against Vitus and Marin?


I like that 29er but unfortunately the XL would probably be too big for me. I'm between 5'10" - 5'11" tall.

Because you started with a comparison to the Boardman MHT 8.9 I recommended the cube acid cos the boardman was one of the bikes I looked at and test rode (27.5) -- the boardmans gears weren't as slick as the cube and handle bars too wide for me but I also looked at the giant fathom 2 it had a dropper seat post but while it had decent equipment it was noticeably heavier than the cube and not as well equipped ( 2018 bike had slx groupset while the cube had XT )

The other thing I wanted was 2 front chain rings for speed over the road part of my 15mile commute ( it used to be all road but I decided to use some bridle paths and rougher ground routes for two reasons -- 1 I want to do a few mountain bike sportive events this year and want to be mountain bike fit ( they don't allow trail hybrids on the events I want to do) . 2 it's a lot safer and more fun since your not constantly wondering when your going to end up as road kill. ) this is why I bought the 2017 cube cos it had the two chain rings and still XT. The 2018 cube only has one.


I was advised at the time that 29er's were not as popular and could risk being sidelined so spares may be hard to get in the future and to be honest at my age I don't think there'll be any advantage putting heavier tyres on.

Had a ride on a carrera fury which was nice and light and cheap but I figured the skimpy rims were part of the weight loss . I didn't like the way the sram gear shifters work though the gear change was good ( push to change down push the other lever to change up but reaching around the other lever didn't make sense to me -- shimano have it right.)

It depends a lot on what level your at too -- I wouldn't be too fussy but my advise is much the same as most -- get a ride on a few bikes cos the one that suits me may not suit you although we are the same height.

Hope that all makes sense

The Rookie

For clarity, if you use the same measuring system by which a 26" IS a 26" (22"ish rim bead radius plus 2" tyre making an overall diameter of 26") then a 27.5 is 27" (the rim is 25mm bigger than a 26") and was likely selected for marketing reasons being half way between 26 and 29 except of course a 29 is really 28.5" (yes 38mm bigger than a 27.5).

https://www.tredz.co.uk/component-buyer ... yre-sizing
The ETRTO diameters being 559mm, 584mm and 622mm respectively.

29ers are showing no sign of going away at all.

peug26

Thank you very much for all the detailed replies guys. Very grateful. Can I check, is the speed difference between a 27.5 and a 29 that much noticeable? Bearing in mind this is from the perspective of someone who does not intend to do races but rather use the bike on dry days for a bit of exercising and leisurly riding.

figbat

If that's your perspective then surely a tiny speed difference is irrelevant? You go as fast as you go and you get faster as you get fitter.

My experience is unscientific and slightly relevant but not directly. I moved from an alloy 26" HT to a carbon fibre 29" HT and was instantly quicker over pretty much every Strava segment I ride. That's mostly byways, bridleways, the Ridgeway etc so nothing too technical but some decent climbs and descents. I got quicker again when I went tubeless on the 29er.

billycool

Peug26 wrote:

Thank you very much for all the detailed replies guys. Very grateful. Can I check, is the speed difference between a 27.5 and a 29 that much noticeable? Bearing in mind this is from the perspective of someone who does not intend to do races but rather use the bike on dry days for a bit of exercising and leisurly riding.

If you are riding at a leisurely pace then I doubt you will.

If you are chasing Strava segments, then a 29" should theoretically be quicker, but you are also looking at bike weight, tubed/tubeless etc and what sort of terrain you are on.

I still ride 26" and it's plenty fast enough for me. My fastest speed was 41.8mph in Afan. I'm sure 29" would go a bit quicker but I'd need clean underwear....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjm2BR4Cr9E

peug26

From all the reading so far I am leaning towards a 27.5". I will test drive a few (including some 29ers just in case) and ake a choice. The Cube Acid seems quite decent. The 2019 model seems to have quite decent kit. Out of curisoity is the Acid Eagle better than the Acid?

figbat

It looks like the only difference is Shimano 2x11 vs SRAM 1x12 - your choice. I’m not sure I am ready for 1x on a MTB, although I am aware of the arguments for it (I have 1x10 on my home-made gravel bike, so am not completely averse).

cowsham

Peug26 wrote:

From all the reading so far I am leaning towards a 27.5". I will test drive a few (including some 29ers just in case) and ake a choice. The Cube Acid seems quite decent. The 2019 model seems to have quite decent kit. Out of curisoity is the Acid Eagle better than the Acid?

Yes I think figbat is correct the sram seems to be the difference -- as I said I'd tried the sram and although the shifting was OK the triggers are both push with your thumb so there's more twisting of your wrist to make contact with the lower lever -- whereas the shimano is thumb to move the chain up onto the granny ring and pull with a finger to move to the smaller faster sprockets and this I find easier since there's less twisting to do none in fact. Some people prefer the sram maybe that's what the eagles about.

Not sure the new acid has 2 front chain rings though -- you'd need to check that -- mine was 2017 model which has 2

cowsham

Good gears, brakes, bearings are important but most important is fit -- make sure it's the right size -- too big and you'll always struggle to lug the thing about -- too small and you'll be uncomfortable and not get the power down. The cube has good enough gear for the money and I'm happy with it having ridden it from November last year the 30 miles round trip to work and back every other day. Get a scoot on one first. Oh and if your on road a lot or on bridle paths and hard trail put a pair of hybrid tyres or city tyres on -- I'm getting mine ready for a big camping trip and thought I'd put the smart Sam's back on to see if I could hack them -- but I put the city tyres back on again as the 30 road / trail miles on the Sam's was tough going.

peug26

Cowsham wrote:

Good gears, brakes, bearings are important but most important is fit -- make sure it's the right size -- too big and you'll always struggle to lug the thing about -- too small and you'll be uncomfortable and not get the power down. The cube has good enough gear for the money and I'm happy with it having ridden it from November last year the 30 miles round trip to work and back every other day. Get a scoot on one first. Oh and if your on road a lot or on bridle paths and hard trail put a pair of hybrid tyres or city tyres on -- I'm getting mine ready for a big camping trip and thought I'd put the smart Sam's back on to see if I could hack them -- but I put the city tyres back on again as the 30 road / trail miles on the Sam's was tough going.

According to quite a few websites I have seen they seem to recommend 18" or 19" for a 27.5 and 19" or L for the 29.

The Cube seems to have excellent gear for the money. The more I compare it to sub £1200 trail MTBs (HT) the more this seems to be the case). They mustn't be making a lot of money on it I would have thought.

I am leaning more towards the Acid Eagle since it has the SRAM gear and a 1x12 (opposed to the 2x11 Shimano on the Acid). A lot of people seem to sing praises to 1x and wherever I read they keep saying that 2x is pretty much out of fashion.

I don't intend to ride on tarmac so shouldn't need hybrid tyres on?

cowsham

Peug26 wrote:

Cowsham wrote:

Good gears, brakes, bearings are important but most important is fit -- make sure it's the right size -- too big and you'll always struggle to lug the thing about -- too small and you'll be uncomfortable and not get the power down. The cube has good enough gear for the money and I'm happy with it having ridden it from November last year the 30 miles round trip to work and back every other day. Get a scoot on one first. Oh and if your on road a lot or on bridle paths and hard trail put a pair of hybrid tyres or city tyres on -- I'm getting mine ready for a big camping trip and thought I'd put the smart Sam's back on to see if I could hack them -- but I put the city tyres back on again as the 30 road / trail miles on the Sam's was tough going.

According to quite a few websites I have seen they seem to recommend 18" or 19" for a 27.5 and 19" or L for the 29.

The Cube seems to have excellent gear for the money. The more I compare it to sub £1200 trail MTBs (HT) the more this seems to be the case). They mustn't be making a lot of money on it I would have thought.

I am leaning more towards the Acid Eagle since it has the SRAM gear and a 1x12 (opposed to the 2x11 Shimano on the Acid). A lot of people seem to sing praises to 1x and wherever I read they keep saying that 2x is pretty much out of fashion.

I don't intend to ride on tarmac so shouldn't need hybrid tyres on?

Fair enough but check out whether you could live with the way the shifters work on the sram gears -- get a ride on it and compare it to shimano -- I couldn't tolerate it especially if you were riding technical bits of a trail. I like the 2 rings as it gives me more top end speed plus I don't follow fashion or trends ( I like to think I set them -- or could be delusional ) with the 15 mile run to work I like to be able to horse on if I'm running a bit late or get a puncture and have to make up time.

figbat

My MTB has three rings up front - I are dinosaur.

In truth I rarely use anything other than the middle ring, but when I need the granny ring I really appreciate it, and occasionally on a stretch of road or smooth trail descent the big ring gets a workout. I could cover the range with a larger cassette and 2 or 1 rings but then the step between gears would get wider and I spend more time moving up and down the intermediates than I do crawling up a climb or flying down a hill.

steve_sordy

Cowsham wrote:

...................

Fair enough but check out whether you could live with the way the shifters work on the sram gears -- get a ride on it and compare it to shimano -- I couldn't tolerate it especially if you were riding technical bits of a trail. ...............

Shimano and SRAM shifters look similar and are mostly the same, At specific price points their performance is very similar to each other. SRAM and Shimnao compete with each other pretty ferociously after all. But they differ in a fundamental way in how the shifters work on the trail. You will either like this difference, loathe it, or get used to operating either after a moment's thought. I didn't realise there was such a difference until I bought a bike that had SRAM kit (after years of Shimnao only).

Shimano shifters operate with finger pull to release the chain to drop down to the smaller gears under mech spring pressure. They require a thumb push on the big lever to push the chain up the bigger gears against the spring pressure. Shimano shifters also allow you to push the small lever with your thumb, like SRAM. SRAM shifters are thumb only for both levers. No finger option.

This sounds like a disadvantage for SRAM because it isn't as versatile as Shimano. But Shimano is clearly set up for finger/thumb shifting and everything Shimano has done, from their I-spec mounts, to the shape of the lever bodies and the way they integrate with the Shimano brake bodies, all points to Shimano's design preference for finger/thumb shifting. If I try to use the thumb/thumb option on Shimano kit, then I cannot get the various levers (brake and shifter) in the right position for me, especially if using the I-spec mounts. Even if I revert to a separate clamp for brake and shifter, the newer body shapes interfere with each other such that I can't get the angular separation I'm looking for. So If I've got Shimano kit, I use it the way it was designed to be, and it works fine.

What I like about SRAM, is that it is set up for thumb/thumb operation. This allows me to keep my index finger on the brake lever 100% of the time, shifting only with my thumb. I have no problem getting all the various levers to work well with each other. This means that I can brake and shift at the same time if required. Until I got my first SRAM kit I had not realised what a restriction not being able to brake and shift at the same time had been. The only small downside of the thumb/thumb operation is that on rough trails when shifting down to smaller gears, under vibration my thumb can press the lever several times instead of once. Because it is trigger release and is powered by the mech spring, then I will get several shifts by accident. It doesn't happen often, but it has happened to me. This has never happened on Shimano finger/thumb operation.

Both systems work extremely well for me, but on balance I prefer SRAM and that is after most of my biking life being on Shimano. I had two bikes at the same time, one Shimano and one SRAM. I found that I couldn't make the mental adjustment fast enough at key times after switching from one bike to the other and I was missing crucial shifts. I had to decide which way to go and I converted both to SRAM; that is now my preference. But right now I'm down to one bike with Shimano kit and although I would have preferred SRAM, I wont be spending any money to convert it. As I said, both systems work extremely well for me.

JBA

Contrary to Steve's experience I have no problem at all using Shimano shifters as thumb-thumb or thumb-finger. I predominantly use thumb-thumb but quite often use thumb finger just for a change.
Maybe I have a Shimano-shaped and sized hand but have never had a problem with brake/shifter positions and I have used bar mount, iSpec B and iSpec II.
On my previous full susser (Specialized Stumpjumper FSR) I had SRAM kit and that never presented a problem either.

peug26

This might sound a daft question and side stepping but if I had the opportunity to buy the Marin nail Trail 7 2018 for £950 (discounted from £1600) would that be better than the Cube Acid Eagle 2019 (£800 discounted from £890)?

JBA

I’d say it is. Better forks, better brakes and comes with a dropper post.

peug26

Well I am the eagerly awaiting owner of a Marin Nail Trail 2018 (L, 27.5). After all various discounts got it for £909. Thank you very much for your patience and advice everyone

JBA

Great price.
Where did you get it from?

peug26

It's from Chain Reaction. I preferred the look and colourway of the Cube Acid but I couldn't say no to the Marin at that price.