I don't suppose anyone here has access to a tank, do they?

greg66_tri_v2.0

The soap dodgers camped on Waterloo Bridge are now annoying me. I would like to remove them.

shirley_basso

That's kind of their point. I guess that means they're winning.

monkimark

Great idea, overload the bridge by driving a tank over it and that'll be another one restricted to pedestrians and cyclists.

roger_merriman

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandela_Way_T-34_Tank

wolfsbane2k

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

The soap dodgers camped on Waterloo Bridge are now annoying me. I would like to remove them.

Why? You can still walk or cycle over it, can't you?

perfectmark

They seem to be making some of the least sense out of protest groups I have seen around London. They are intent on not just disrupting cars, but every form of transport (including trains). Considering the point of the protest, I would of thought they would want people using greener forms of transport.

j_mcd

I was pleasantly surprised to see that although they'd blocked parliament square they had left all the cycle lanes unobstructed.

Gallywomack

I've been able to get across a few times but when the coppers were arresting people yesterday lunchtime there was no way through. Have been using Blackfriars Bridge since. The few times I went over Waterloo Bridge were not unpleasant tbh.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

The soap dodgers camped on Waterloo Bridge are now annoying me. I would like to remove them.

Why? You can still walk or cycle over it, can't you?

Of the three crossings I have made so far, on all three I have been reduced to sub-walking pace; and on two I have had to thread a meandering route through them and their crap with one foot unclipped/paddling the ground.

So no.

Shirley Basso wrote:

That's kind of their point. I guess that means they're winning.

Yes. That's why I need the tank.

tgotb

oxoman wrote:

At least they didn't glue themselves to you like they did on the underground trains.

Technically speaking it was the DLR rather than the Underground. The fact they chose Canary Wharf to pull that stunt speaks volumes.

jamesco

It's tough, but having to walk a bike across a bridge doesn't seem a big deal compared to mass extinctions and environment degradation.

I rather respect these protestors - they're brave enough to face the consequences of arrest - and certainly support their goals. The protests are abrasive (and closing the DLR was questionable to me), but that's rather the point when it comes to raising awareness about how urgent the situation is.

This little fella is going to die along with the rest of his species (and a lot of others) due to climate change, unless big changes are made that involve some inconvenience:

pangolin

oxoman wrote:

I agree with trying to stop mass extinction, however the method they have chosen is not right. Over earths existence there has been many mass extinctions, this time though we have a hand in this one and can hopefully make a difference. But trying to change something overnight that took centuries to cause is a tall order.

We don't have centuries to put it right though, we've got a handful of years.

cougie

Good luck to the protesters. We've really screwed our planet up.

rower63

If they really wanted to disrupt the Capital's traffic they chose the wrong targets. They should've camped out on the A3 at Tibbet's Corner and blocked the various tunnels out Dartford way...

shirley_basso

Agree with protesters. Would be amazing if they inspired change.

Incredibly well organised as well.

tgotb

Apparently the protest organisers are hoping to continue into next week. When this was at the planning stage, did no-one think to point out the 4-day weekend?

shirley_basso

Maybe they saw that the weather was good so wouldn't be too gritty being glued to a lorry?

kingstongraham

TGOTB wrote:

Apparently the protest organisers are hoping to continue into next week. When this was at the planning stage, did no-one think to point out the 4-day weekend?

Maybe, just maybe, it coincides with the university holidays.

Gallywomack

I'd be interested to hear people's views on the knock on effect on traffic away from the protest sites themselves. Obviously there were big snarl-ups around Oxford Circus in particular and on the south side of Waterloo Bridge at times (particularly on Monday) but my admittedly vague impression is it hasn't quite caused the gridlock you might have expected. Although I suppose it is a quiet week what with school hols and perhaps things winding down slightly ahead of the long weekend.

My pipe dream reason for musing on this is that apart from the hordes of scruffy protesters, when I was able to get across Waterloo Bridge it was blimmin nice having it traffic free. I do wonder if at least some form of extensive segregation/traffic calming might be possible on the bridge which is currently amongst the worst for cycling.

Edit: and without getting all Boris about it, the 'garden bridge' concept could be very pleasant indeed if involved fewer people doing yoga and swaying to ambient trance music

tgotb

Gallywomack wrote:

I'd be interested to hear people's views on the knock on effect on traffic away from the protest sites themselves.

It's very hard to tell, because they've decided to disrupt a very non-typical week. My impressions of the traffic this week:
Richmond Park and surrounding area - much lighter than normal
Putney Bridge - similar to normal (presmuably because fewer people travelling, but Hammersmith Bridge is closed)
Albert Embankment - a bit lighter than normal
City of London - a bit lighter than normal
Office - a bit emptier than normal, except that today it is almost deserted; even the tumbleweed is working from home.

Gallywomack wrote:

I do wonder if at least some form of extensive segregation/traffic calming might be possible on the bridge which is currently amongst the worst for cycling.:

So long as you do it during the holidays.

rower63

Traffic this week has been the lightest I can remember for ages, including half-terms etc. And today was especially especially quiet.
The absolute worst traffic I've ever experienced in all my 30 years commuting was lately when the A3 was closed to repair a burst water main, and another time when there was an accident there. It's the arteries that need blocking to cause maximum chaos, but neither the A3 nor the Dartford Tunnel have quite the same iconic backdrop as Westminster.

Gallywomack

neither the A3 nor the Dartford Tunnel have quite the same iconic backdrop as Westminster.

Nor as easily accessible by public transport from all corners of the home counties, I suspect...

I used to commute by car via the Dartford crossing and all you really need is one broken-down car to cause major delays there. On one occasion, I think from memory caused by a big accident or perhaps accidents, I didn't really get free of the crossing and onto the A13 to work till about 11:30am. Given I'd set off at 6am, I remember thinking to myself that I could have driven to Cornwall in the same time.

Anyway, just been for an early lunchtime Boris bimble to take the air, and I'm talking rot re traffic - Stamford St is completely snarled up all the way across to Blackfriars Rd. Maybe it isn't time to shut Waterloo bridge to motor vehicles just yet.

tgotb

So a really efficient way to cause massive disruption would be to buy a handful of old bangers. Drive the first one into the critical tunnel of choice and arrange to break down. Wave a few banners around while waiting to get rescued; when you're finally extracted, call up your mate in the next old banger, who's waiting in a layby up the road; rinse and repeat.

I once knew a guy who claimed to have blocked the Rotherhithe tunnel completely, by colliding with an oncoming vehicle and ending up jammed sideways, across both carriageways.

greg66_tri_v2.0

jamesco wrote:

It's tough, but having to walk a bike across a bridge doesn't seem a big deal compared to mass extinctions and environment degradation.

While that statement is no doubt true, it doesn't have much application in reality.

First, I'm not really convinced we are looking at wave upon wave of mass extinctions any time soon. Google penguin extinction forex and you are told that maybe by 2100 a third of the ice on Antartica will have melted and maybe by then Emperor penguins could have fallen by a third.

Hmm. Just Hmm.

Second, and call me a tired old cynic, but I'd bet most of the Waterloo Bridge protesters didn't give a stuff about mass extinctions 5 years ago and will have moved onto the next fad in five years' time. I say this because: based on my observations about 80% of them are semi-professional* protesters. There are more CND signs visible on a pass-through than there are Greenpeace logos, for example. There are prominent signs on what to do if arrested. The air was properly thick with the smell of weed. These people are same people who will have been on the Occupy protests, the anti Brexit protests (disclaimer: I am anti Brexit), the anti Trump protests (he's a cunt IMHO) - basically anti-anything that is vaguely Establismentarian.

One of them was on the news being spiked on their "zero carbon emissions by 2025" desire. No cars, no planes, no fires, not much of anything, really. In six years' time. It's all fantasy stuff that originates from a weird desire to revert to some sort of agrarian economy minus the feudal overlords.

I bet they are anti-vaxxers too; most likely prefer that ludicrous water-that's-had-crystals-dipped-in-it-then-been-diluted to "so-called medicine". Nutters.

And another thing (this is helping, in case anyone was wondering). WTAF are the Police doing? If I decided to set up shop and block Waterloo Bridge for, oh, ten minutes, I am willing to bet a sizeable sum I'd be arrested and moved on forcibly. But here, for reasons that I find unfathomable, the Police are standing around watching. As they have been since Wednesday morning. There are no shortage of public order offences that could be used in a heartbeat to clear these people, but for whatever reason it seems that the Police, and presumably the Mayor and Home Sec, are content to allow these little settlements to sit there in the sunshine. I can only assume that someone has decided that this is school holiday week, so as lots of people are away from London, opening up the roads is a low priority. Perhaps I should take that approach to observance of, oh, bus lanes and speed limits in my car when August rolls around. I'm sure I'll be treated just as benevolently.

Now, where's that fucking tank? I am going away myself tomorrow, so time is running out!


*I use the term loosely. I don't think they are paid to do it.

ugo.santalucia

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Google penguin extinction forex and you are told that maybe by 2100 a third of the ice on Antartica will have melted and maybe by then Emperor penguins could have fallen by a third.

No need to worry then, leave it to the governments, which seem to do a great job.
Protest and campaign is at the very essence of every step forward of mankind... being that equal rights for women, LGBT, different ethnic groups, right of way on private land, democracy in general... you name it, it has been conquered with protest.
It wasn't long ago when in this very democratic country as a black woman you had pretty much zero human rights.

So my advice is to get off your bike, walk across the bridge, pay respect to those people who are a little bit less selfish than you and STFU...

wolfsbane2k

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

One of them was on the news being spiked on their "zero carbon emissions by 2025" desire. No cars, no planes, no fires, not much of anything, really. In six years' time.

There's a lot of personal opinion based on ancedata in the rest of that thread, so I've cut to the chase:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-45775309

""Scientists might want to write in capital letters, 'ACT NOW, IDIOTS,' but they need to say that with facts and numbers," said Kaisa Kosonen, of Greenpeace, who was an observer at the negotiations. "And they have.""

IPCC wrote:

The report says there must be rapid and significant changes in four big global systems:
◾energy • land use • cities • industry

But it adds that the world cannot meet its target without changes by individuals, urging people to:
◾buy less meat, milk, cheese and butter and more locally sourced seasonal food - and throw less of it away • drive electric cars but walk or cycle short distances • take trains and buses instead of planes • use videoconferencing instead of business travel • use a washing line instead of a tumble dryer • insulate homes • demand low carbon in every consumer product

greg66_tri_v2.0

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Google penguin extinction forex and you are told that maybe by 2100 a third of the ice on Antartica will have melted and maybe by then Emperor penguins could have fallen by a third.

No need to worry then, leave it to the governments, which seem to do a great job.
Protest and campaign is at the very essence of every step forward of mankind... being that equal rights for women, LGBT, different ethnic groups, right of way on private land, democracy in general... you name it, it has been conquered with protest.
It wasn't long ago when in this very democratic country as a black woman you had pretty much zero human rights.

So my advice is to get off your bike, walk across the bridge, pay respect to those people who are a little bit less selfish than you and STFU...

A few things:

Looks like you accept the “threat” isn’t really a threat. That’s good.

Steps forward for mankind include: the wheel, farming, commerce, technology (that thing you’re using to read this? It came from the space program). So the really big steps forward for mankind certainly didn’t come from protest.

On the theme of what these protesters want: did you use your central heating much this winter? Of course. Which pits you against these people. Use Amazon? Own a car? Don’t grow your own electricity? Breathe out? Well you’re a carbon producing bastard then. Good to know you like these guys, because they would *hate* you after five minutes of Q&A. Don’t think that riding a bike on weekdays makes you their hero.

You don’t take issue with the point that these protesters are basically rent a mob. That’s also good.

They’ve put a sign up now telling cyclists to dismount through their settlement. Fuck that shit.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

One of them was on the news being spiked on their "zero carbon emissions by 2025" desire. No cars, no planes, no fires, not much of anything, really. In six years' time.

There's a lot of personal opinion based on ancedata in the rest of that thread, so I've cut to the chase:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-45775309

""Scientists might want to write in capital letters, 'ACT NOW, IDIOTS,' but they need to say that with facts and numbers," said Kaisa Kosonen, of Greenpeace, who was an observer at the negotiations. "And they have.""

IPCC wrote:

The report says there must be rapid and significant changes in four big global systems:
◾energy • land use • cities • industry

But it adds that the world cannot meet its target without changes by individuals, urging people to:
◾buy less meat, milk, cheese and butter and more locally sourced seasonal food - and throw less of it away • drive electric cars but walk or cycle short distances • take trains and buses instead of planes • use videoconferencing instead of business travel • use a washing line instead of a tumble dryer • insulate homes • demand low carbon in every consumer product

Cut to the chase?

Do you not get that what the IPCC proposes is absolutely nothing like a zero carbon economy? This is like saying “I sympathise with gay rights activists because I go to a hairdresser who speaks funny”.

PS. find me an IPCC scientist who takes a train instead of a long haul flight and I have some magic beans to sell you for a very fair price.

itboffin

If you're wondering where all the diverted traffic is its here in Windshire, holy shite every tiny lane is like a busy A road, satnav madness

Stevo_666

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

The soap dodgers camped on Waterloo Bridge are now annoying me. I would like to remove them.

Why? You can still walk or cycle over it, can't you?

Of the three crossings I have made so far, on all three I have been reduced to sub-walking pace; and on two I have had to thread a meandering route through them and their crap with one foot unclipped/paddling the ground.

So no.

Shirley Basso wrote:

That's kind of their point. I guess that means they're winning.

Yes. That's why I need the tank.

Same for me, went over Waterloo Bridge on the bike at walking pace on Monday evening. A couple of them didn't seem too amused when I pointed out what a lovely cold day it was

They've had their day out; now they need to 'go forth' and protest in countries which contribute much more to Global warming than the UK - like China, for example.

jamesco

Stevo 666 wrote:

Same for me, went over Waterloo Bridge on the bike at walking pace on Monday evening. A couple of them didn't seem too amused when I pointed out what a lovely cold day it was

They've had their day out; now they need to 'go forth' and protest in countries which contribute much more to Global warming than the UK - like China, for example.

The UK - home of the coal-powered industrial revolution and former exploiter of the world's largest empire - exports much of its pollution to China because China actually makes stuff. The UK is rich; it can afford to lead the charge against climate change.

Interestingly, China is making big efforts to clean up its act and 'own' emerging technologies; among other things, if you visit Beijing you might notice that every scooter (and there's lots of them) is electric, while here in the UK 2-strokes still stink up the air. Solar panels are cost-effective, thanks to China, and now electric buses are, too.

Climate change and mass extinction are undeniably crises but the solutions are manageable and achievable; who do you trust - Donald Trump or the scientific community?