Israel Folau

shirley_basso
shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
edited May 2019 in The cake stop
Thoughts?

Personally I think they made the right decision.

Although reading his comments, he comes across as what I would read as 'radicalised' if I read the same from a non-christian.

Strange fellow.
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Comments

  • laurentian
    laurentian Posts: 2,380
    Heard an intersting comment from an Australian journalist on this. He reckoned that Folau, having just become the highest try scorer in Super Rugby knew exactly what he was doing with this and, having been warned about 12 months ago for someting similar, that he knew he would be sacked by Australia and that an English or French club side would snap him up on a huge salary regardless of how toxic his "brand" had become.

    Folau's comments are obviously repugnant and, even if genuinely held, should not be posted on social media. Australian rugby had nowhere else to go other than sack him and did the right thing.
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Interesting idea, it's an action calculated to earn the guy more money. Obviously playing for one's country doesn't earn you as much as your club based earnings if that's his goal. International appearances are your shop window but if you're a regular on the international scene for your country then you're a known individual who doesn't need the shop window as much now.

    Whatever that theory, if true, would need careful costing out to take the risk I reckon. I think it's more likely he's a Christian radical with abhorrent views who thought a year was long enough to not get into serious trouble spouting your offensive comments publicly. And money has nothing to do with it.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    Don't be surprised when religious people hold religious views. Although I strongly disagree with his opinions, I'm still a little uneasy about it being a sacking offence. Especially as saying the exact opposite (regarding homosexuals) would have been a sacking offence not so long ago.
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    He only said what religion teaches - i'd imagine the vast majority of religious people believe the same - or at least they should if they follow their religion as it is taught. Luckily a lot of religions seem to be reforming these days.

    I'm baffled as to how anyone can believe in any religion (i don't mind that they do so long as their views don't harm anyone)
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    That's a dangerous generalisation.

    Religion is changing quickly and the vast majority of religious people aren't fundamentalists.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    Chris Bass wrote:
    He only said what religion teaches - i'd imagine the vast majority of religious people believe the same - or at least they should if they follow their religion as it is taught. Luckily a lot of religions seem to be reforming these days.

    I'm baffled as to how anyone can believe in any religion (i don't mind that they do so long as their views don't harm anyone)


    I think you're not far off. In terms of Christianity the most generous reading of it is that homosexual acts are a sin among others and it's up to God to decide. Certainly it would be difficult to say that it's condoned by God
  • Lagrange
    Lagrange Posts: 652
    I don't think what he said was extreme, incautious yes. Sacked - well probably as he is an ambassador.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    nickice wrote:
    I think you're not far off. In terms of Christianity the most generous reading of it is that homosexual acts are a sin among others and it's up to God to decide. Certainly it would be difficult to say that it's condoned by God

    The imaginary sky fairy moves in mysterious ways, apparently...
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    nickice wrote:
    Chris Bass wrote:
    He only said what religion teaches - i'd imagine the vast majority of religious people believe the same - or at least they should if they follow their religion as it is taught. Luckily a lot of religions seem to be reforming these days.

    I'm baffled as to how anyone can believe in any religion (i don't mind that they do so long as their views don't harm anyone)


    I think you're not far off. In terms of Christianity the most generous reading of it is that homosexual acts are a sin among others and it's up to God to decide. Certainly it would be difficult to say that it's condoned by God

    As explained by a nutter on R5 this morning the issue is about having sex outside of marriage. She then confirmed that marriage can only be between a man and woman. She also clarified that she saw the law of God as being above the law of the land.

    They she give these Moggites more airtime in which to hang themselves.

    On a more positive note could he not come and play for England as part of our overseas quota. I can’t believe the delightful Billy Vunipola will get more than a slap on the wrist for agreeing with him.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 6,915
    nickice wrote:
    Chris Bass wrote:
    He only said what religion teaches - i'd imagine the vast majority of religious people believe the same - or at least they should if they follow their religion as it is taught. Luckily a lot of religions seem to be reforming these days.

    I'm baffled as to how anyone can believe in any religion (i don't mind that they do so long as their views don't harm anyone)


    I think you're not far off. In terms of Christianity the most generous reading of it is that homosexual acts are a sin among others and it's up to God to decide. Certainly it would be difficult to say that it's condoned by God

    As explained by a nutter on R5 this morning the issue is about having sex outside of marriage. She then confirmed that marriage can only be between a man and woman. She also clarified that she saw the law of God as being above the law of the land.

    They she give these Moggites more airtime in which to hang themselves.

    On a more positive note could he not come and play for England as part of our overseas quota. I can’t believe the delightful Billy Vunipola will get more than a slap on the wrist for agreeing with him.

    Hmm, not sure your 'overseas quota' comment is appropriate either. Billy was born in Wales and move to England aged 3 or thereabouts.
    Which other England players are you suggesting form part of the 'overseas quota'?
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    Imposter wrote:
    nickice wrote:
    I think you're not far off. In terms of Christianity the most generous reading of it is that homosexual acts are a sin among others and it's up to God to decide. Certainly it would be difficult to say that it's condoned by God

    The imaginary sky fairy moves in mysterious ways, apparently...

    God is probably a black Jewish homosexual just teasing the world and revelling in the daily awkward moments at the pearly gates.
  • proto
    proto Posts: 1,483
    Dorset Boy wrote:
    Hmm, not sure your 'overseas quota' comment is appropriate either. Billy was born in Wales and move to England aged 3 or thereabouts.
    Which other England players are you suggesting form part of the 'overseas quota'?

    He was born in Australia (Tongan parents). Moved to Wales when he was three years old. Moved to England when he was awarded a scholarship to Harrow School. Subsequently claimed English nationality through residency.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    Dorset Boy wrote:
    nickice wrote:
    Chris Bass wrote:
    He only said what religion teaches - i'd imagine the vast majority of religious people believe the same - or at least they should if they follow their religion as it is taught. Luckily a lot of religions seem to be reforming these days.

    I'm baffled as to how anyone can believe in any religion (i don't mind that they do so long as their views don't harm anyone)


    I think you're not far off. In terms of Christianity the most generous reading of it is that homosexual acts are a sin among others and it's up to God to decide. Certainly it would be difficult to say that it's condoned by God

    As explained by a nutter on R5 this morning the issue is about having sex outside of marriage. She then confirmed that marriage can only be between a man and woman. She also clarified that she saw the law of God as being above the law of the land.

    They she give these Moggites more airtime in which to hang themselves.

    On a more positive note could he not come and play for England as part of our overseas quota. I can’t believe the delightful Billy Vunipola will get more than a slap on the wrist for agreeing with him.

    Hmm, not sure your 'overseas quota' comment is appropriate either. Billy was born in Wales and move to England aged 3 or thereabouts.
    Which other England players are you suggesting form part of the 'overseas quota'?

    The intl rugby authorities obviously agree with me as they tightened up the eligibility by residency criteria.

    And if we had any pride the coach and the bloke who drives the coach to the game would be English.
  • Lagrange
    Lagrange Posts: 652
    john80 wrote:

    God is probably a black Jewish homosexual just teasing the world and revelling in the daily awkward moments at the pearly gates.


    Grown up comment.
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Lagrange wrote:
    john80 wrote:

    God is probably a black Jewish homosexual just teasing the world and revelling in the daily awkward moments at the pearly gates.


    Grown up comment.
    His son was in his likeness and he's really only hanging around with male disciples. He's Jewish and there's some discussion that he was darker skinned too. If that's true then why not? It's so far after the events that we really will never know. BTW if those events actually happened of course.

    Prove John's jokey post at the expense of religion is wrong. :D
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,731
    Going back to the original post I think he had to be sacked but part of me does feel that it's a way of suppressing freedom of thought which makes me a little conflicted. I guess suppressing freedom to think and express repugnant views is on balance a good thing though.

    Equally do his other targets drunks, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters deserve society's protection.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Equally do his other targets drunks, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters deserve society's protection.

    Presumably, if he's consistent, he will be calling for adulterers to be put to death next.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,731
    Morality is contestable and changing isn't it. In our society right now insulting people for being gay is unacceptable and possibly illegal - not something I have an issue with - but saying followers of some religions (idolators) , people with an illness (alcoholics), and people who choose a particular lifestyle (fornicators - not sure that constitutes a lifestyle unless you are very lucky though) are fair game.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    The most morally bankrupt people in society are often the most religious, ironically.
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    Most companies will fire you for saying reprehensible things.

    He was given a warning and told to remove the post and didn't.

    I hope it delivers a very strong message that these attitudes are not tolerated - particularly among young people who are fans of his, but also shows support for other male or female homosexuals in any sport or walk of life - particularly for a superstar from that sport's national governing body.
  • laurentian
    laurentian Posts: 2,380
    Equally do his other targets drunks, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters deserve society's protection.

    That is most of Australia to be fair . . .
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    laurentian wrote:
    Equally do his other targets drunks, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters deserve society's protection.

    That is most of Australia to be fair . . .

    Unfortunately, I suspect a lot of Folau's fans will actually agree with his comments. Not because they are committed christians, but because they are bigoted simpletons. The irony would be palpable...
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    so we seem to be in agreement that Mr Folau deserved to be sacked for expressing his beliefs

    Now how about Billy Vunipola - endorsing Mr Folau's opinions does not seem as bad - what if any punishment would be appropriate?
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    so we seem to be in agreement that Mr Folau deserved to be sacked for expressing his beliefs

    Now how about Billy Vunipola - endorsing Mr Folau's opinions does not seem as bad - what if any punishment would be appropriate?

    Refer to my answer above. All he has to do is disassociate himself from the remarks - in a way which he has significantly NOT done yet. In my book, that puts him in the same category as Folau.
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    Imposter wrote:
    so we seem to be in agreement that Mr Folau deserved to be sacked for expressing his beliefs

    Now how about Billy Vunipola - endorsing Mr Folau's opinions does not seem as bad - what if any punishment would be appropriate?

    Refer to my answer above. All he has to do is disassociate himself from the remarks - in a way which he has significantly NOT done yet. In my book, that puts him in the same category as Folau.

    Which group of fans are more bigoted and simple - UK or Aus? I think the UK has quite a few openly gay high profile figures in Rugby so I'd hope that most people disagree with Vunipola.

    Agree that he has not really disassociated himself from his remarks. I wonder what will happen. I do applaud the Aussies for how they have handed this issue - from what little I have read on the matter.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    Imposter wrote:
    so we seem to be in agreement that Mr Folau deserved to be sacked for expressing his beliefs

    Now how about Billy Vunipola - endorsing Mr Folau's opinions does not seem as bad - what if any punishment would be appropriate?

    Refer to my answer above. All he has to do is disassociate himself from the remarks - in a way which he has significantly NOT done yet. In my book, that puts him in the same category as Folau.

    Which group of fans are more bigoted and simple - UK or Aus? I think the UK has quite a few openly gay high profile figures in Rugby so I'd hope that most people disagree with Vunipola.

    Agree that he has not really disassociated himself from his remarks. I wonder what will happen. I do applaud the Aussies for how they have handed this issue - from what little I have read on the matter.

    Chapeau to the Aussies for banning one of their most influential players.

    In a thoroughly British way the rugby authorities are dragging their feet whilst the crowd at Vunipola's first match booed him incessantly and at the end the PA played "It's Raining Men"
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    In a thoroughly British way the rugby authorities are dragging their feet whilst the crowd at Vunipola's first match booed him incessantly and at the end the PA played "It's Raining Men"

    Hadn't heard that. Classic :D
  • laurentian
    laurentian Posts: 2,380
    Imposter wrote:
    In a thoroughly British way the rugby authorities are dragging their feet whilst the crowd at Vunipola's first match booed him incessantly and at the end the PA played "It's Raining Men"

    Hadn't heard that. Classic :D

    Me neither - great stuff!
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    Vunipola given 'official warning'.

    I guess the RFU need to show some backbone in the wake of the Aus decision.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Vunipola given 'official warning'.

    I guess the RFU need to show some backbone in the wake of the Aus decision.

    It's a shame they didn't, then...