New Bike Problem.

lodgey_3

Hey all,


Im relatively new to biking but decided i would like to get my own bike as i was previously borrowing a bike from a friend. I went to my local shop and settled on a Trek X-Caliber 7 (2019) which i have had for 6 months and for the most part am enjoying it.


I use the bike mainly cycling cycle ways and do a 12 mile cycle daily on a compact gravel surface which is fairly smooth for the most part however even cycling this fairly smooth path i have already had to replace two spokes, after the second spoke went they replaced the wheel last month and no issues so far. Now i know this is not even close to top of the range when it comes to bikes but i am not throwing it down mountains or doing any jumps or tricks i just cycle as fast as i can from point a to point b.


Today i was cycling on the fairly smooth compact gravel path and the bike just locks up and i cant peddle anywhere, i look back to see my derailleur looking like it does in the picture (the picture was taking in the car as i got picked up) took the bike to the shop and they said that it is a common thing to happen to bikes, so is it a common thing to happen to bikes? I thought a mountain bike was built to take punishment the sort you would get going down a mountain trail not on a fairly smooth cycle track.

https://imgur.com/VL5b44n
https://imgur.com/2UcaSrx


The shop said it was common but is not covered by warranty and after the spokes have gone and now this im kind of regretting buying this bike.


Is this a common problem that a derailleur does this? Is it common for spokes to snap in the first 6 months? (They snapped at the center hub which the shop said it was because i must have cause it on something, which i did not) Is the bike i brought just not good?


Any help and/or advise would be great.



Thank you.

cooldad

Bikes need cleaning, routine regular maintenance and TLC. Yours looks like it gets none of the above.

lodgey_3

cooldad wrote:

Bikes need cleaning, routine regular maintenance and TLC. Yours looks like it gets none of the above.

Thank you for the response, in what way do you see there not being regular maintenance and TLC? The picture i took was before i dropped it off at the shop, i was forced to cut the cycle short due to the derailleur breaking and the shop was on route home so i took it straight there covered in all the dirt you see in the picture.

monkimark

Looks like the chain has gone off the back of the cassette into the spokes, which suggests the rear mech wasn't set up properly

lodgey_3

monkimark wrote:

Looks like the chain has gone off the back of the cassette into the spokes, which suggests the rear mech wasn't set up properly

The back wheel was the one they replaced due to broken spokes would that cause the rear mech to have an issue?

The shop set the bike up for me but dont know if they did or needed to do that again if they replaced the wheel, they also used the same mech that was on the bike when i brought it.

figbat

monkimark wrote:

Looks like the chain has gone off the back of the cassette into the spokes, which suggests the rear mech wasn't set up properly

This. I wouldn't say it is "common", but it isn't unheard of. The derailleur has moved too far to the left, got too close to the spokes, caught one and been ripped apart by the wheel. It is possible that this also contributed to your previous spoke failures.

The derailleur should be prevented from moving too far left by the 'L' limit screw, which needs adjusting as part of the derailleur set up. Any half-compentent bike shop should be able to do this easily. Who set the bike up for you? And have you 'fiddled' with the derailleur screws at all? I've never known one to move on its own so either it came to you like that and you have got away with it for 6 months or something has upset the derailleur mounting or settings. I guess it is also possible the wheel wasn't mounted straight.

lodgey_3

figbat wrote:

monkimark wrote:

Looks like the chain has gone off the back of the cassette into the spokes, which suggests the rear mech wasn't set up properly

This. I wouldn't say it is "common", but it isn't unheard of. The derailleur has moved too far to the left, got too close to the spokes, caught one and been ripped apart by the wheel. It is possible that this also contributed to your previous spoke failures.

The derailleur should be prevented from moving too far left by the 'L' limit screw, which needs adjusting as part of the derailleur set up. Any half-compentent bike shop should be able to do this easily. Who set the bike up for you? And have you 'fiddled' with the derailleur screws at all? I've never known one to move on its own so either it came to you like that and you have got away with it for 6 months or something has upset the derailleur mounting or settings. I guess it is also possible the wheel wasn't mounted straight.

Thank you for the reply. The bike shop setup the bike and i havent touched the derailleur. Havent had the back wheel off since they changed the spokes so maybe they didnt mount it straight.

Anyway thank you for the information.

larkim

If you've been riding trouble free and selecting a full range of gears for a period of time and then this happens, it's highly unlikely to be down to anything the bike shop did or didn't do when it was sold to you. Derailleurs go into the spokes because:-
- they are badly set up in the shop (but then, that becomes apparent quite soon if you use all of the gears)
- they are badly tweaked / tuned by the rider
- they have been maliciously or incompetently tweaked / tuned by someone else
- the rear mech has taken a knock and bent the cage
- the mech hangar has taken a knock and moved the position of the rear mech
- some other accident like a stick going through the wheel catching the mech and dragging it into the wheel (had this happen to me)
- some other reason I've not thought of

Broadly it's highly unlikely that anything the shop did has caused this, but equally it might just be "one of those things" which could only have been prevented if you'd noticed some damage prior to riding it - and it's not always obvious.

Not what you want to hear of course, but replacing a rear mech isn't too troublesome or expensive. And yes, MTBs are designed to be ridden hard, but components break if they get hit / damaged.

robertpb

It's your responsibility to check the bike over every ride and adjust where necessary.

The failure here is yours so no warranty cover, the only reason the bike shop would help towards the cost is for good customer relations.

lodgey_3

larkim wrote:

If you've been riding trouble free and selecting a full range of gears for a period of time and then this happens, it's highly unlikely to be down to anything the bike shop did or didn't do when it was sold to you. Derailleurs go into the spokes because:-
- they are badly set up in the shop (but then, that becomes apparent quite soon if you use all of the gears)
- they are badly tweaked / tuned by the rider
- they have been maliciously or incompetently tweaked / tuned by someone else
- the rear mech has taken a knock and bent the cage
- the mech hangar has taken a knock and moved the position of the rear mech
- some other accident like a stick going through the wheel catching the mech and dragging it into the wheel (had this happen to me)
- some other reason I've not thought of

Broadly it's highly unlikely that anything the shop did has caused this, but equally it might just be "one of those things" which could only have been prevented if you'd noticed some damage prior to riding it - and it's not always obvious.

Not what you want to hear of course, but replacing a rear mech isn't too troublesome or expensive. And yes, MTBs are designed to be ridden hard, but components break if they get hit / damaged.

Thank you for the information.

I guess i'll just have to put this down to "one of those things" and see what the shop comes back with repair wise.

lodgey_3

robertpb wrote:

It's your responsibility to check the bike over every ride and adjust where necessary.

The failure here is yours so no warranty cover, the only reason the bike shop would help towards the cost is for good customer relations.

I do check the bike over every ride as much as i can, i check tire pressures, check the cassette for big particles in it like stones or twigs, check the chain and oil it, i wash the bike with the hose daily specially as the surface i ride is very gritty and give it a sponge bath at the weekends.

Is there a way i could have seen the derailleur misaligned? or felt it whilst riding the bike?

larkim

Noisy gears or the gear at the back not matching the gear indicator on the shifter would be decent proxies for whether everything was right. I've certainly not done a full check of the rear mech alignment etc before I lift the bike down for a ride, but if it was making different noises to usual I'd look - and when I change to the lowest or highest gears (biggest and smallest sprockets) it wouldn't be unheard of for me to glance down and check that they are in fact shifted into the right gear etc - and perhaps just visually note if the rear mech appeared in line with the cassette etc.

Having maintained my son's bike through a learning curve over the last 5 or 6 years, often with advice and support on here, I can understand that sometimes things happen without you being aware that they were likely to happen, but of course the more you know the better equipped you are to prevent problems happening.

shirley_basso

I think, unfortunately it is just one of those things. Great to hear you are enjoying cycling though.

On the plus side, this gives you an excellent opportunity to fit a new one and learn some really useful maintenance skills.

It can appear quite daunting and a bit fiddly first time, but knowing how to replace cables and adjust the gears at the back will save you a lot of headache and money in the long run.

billycool

That bottom jockey wheel looks like a Ninja throwing star, so that could encourage the chain to slip.

bmxgod

Shirley Basso wrote:

I think, unfortunately it is just one of those things. Great to hear you are enjoying cycling though.

On the plus side, this gives you an excellent opportunity to fit a new one and learn some really useful maintenance skills.

It can appear quite daunting and a bit fiddly first time, but knowing how to replace cables and adjust the gears at the back will save you a lot of headache and money in the long run.

Yup. This. Ever since i started MTB again i also gained skills id never thought id have. Also id recommend to check out some of the tecchis here or there. I learned a lot of them just by reading and reproducing small projects. I wouldnt call myself skilled by any means, but one have to start at some point, i guess:)

mark~p

I did have something similar happen on my commuter bike where a twig somehow jammed in the cage and forced it into the wheel. Both twig and cage broke but I found the twig as it was close by and was taken aback at how small it was. The problem is that if the cage does get pushed into a spoke then it is game over pretty much instantly.

Having had to unpick the shambles that my teenage son has "just happen" on his bike (as well as his mates), nothing much surprises me.

1. Rear derailleurs that last years for me disintegrate in months.
2. Spokes break or fall out (how the hell that happens who knows)
3. Bottom brackets fail and are so full of muck they are like a cement mixer
4: Brake pads eat them selves

The solution to these, having given up buying new parts are:
1. Second hand XT derailleurs
2. They pay to get the wheel fixed (that one is very effective)
3. Use one with standard ball race bearings that can be replaced easily. I ended up using threadlock to keep the shells in and the bearing can be bought from a bearing supplier locally for a few pounds.
4. Expensive sintered pads, they claim they don't work as well but at least they don't need replacing every week.

They still have fun, it just costs you less overall in time and money.

larkim

Some handy tips there for parents!!

lodgey_3

I got the bike back today, i asked them to do the work for me as i wouldnt have had time right now. I got a new gearset, crank and chain.

I was talking to one of the guys who works then and he did say it was a common thing round here as the cycle path is so gritty, he also said he changes his chain every two to three months is this a something that is normal? he said that it helps eliminate wear on the gearset.

Also i would like to ask how many of you are running your original gearset and crank? and if so how long have you been using them for?

I believe that although the bike is only 6 months old i have to look at the mileage and terrain i have been riding on, that contributes more to the wear and tear rather then thinking its only 6 months old things shouldnt break this soon.

I wanted to say thank you all for the tips and insight into how this could have happened it was helpful to get an idea of what went wrong from more experienced people.

mark~p

On the mountain bikes it is difficult to put a mileage on the replacement as the conditions vary so much. A chain gauge and inspection of the cassette for saw-tooth cog profiles is the best. I have had chains replaced after 2 weeks hard work in Wales and then others last a year as the conditions are better. As the chain stretches it increases the wear on the cassette & chain ring. Tooth wear is driven by conditions and mileage. I have tried many different chains and have come to the following conclusions for 10 speed:
Shimano HG81, not bad
Sram, useless, very soft metal that stretches quickly
KMC gold, best.

On my commuter bike, 3000 miles a year in all weathers. The route is 70% cyclepath and the remainder road. The chain and gears would get a slurp of oil but it is not rigorously maintained as ive winter it did not make a huge difference.
This was a 10 x 3 with only the outer 44 tooth front sprocket user. Shimano XT/Alivio mix
Chain would generally need replacing every 6 months (after winter) with KMC lasting the longest.
Shimano cassette usually yearly
Front chainring yearly or every 2 years depending on the brand. Steel lasts longer, posh alloy would be shot after a winter. In the alloy ones, the best I had was a Middleburn Hardcoat that lasted 2 years with KMC chains.

The last time it all died I though I would try a belt drive, Cube Hyde Race with Alfine 8. So far it has been pretty good with no maintenance at all, however I remain unconvinced that the geared hub will be any cheaper in the long run. When it does expire it is a new wheel or re-spoke. From a commuting perspective, changing whilst stationary is good and not having an oily chain.

bonzo_banana

One thing that is worth considering is a spoke guard/protector commonly called a dork disc. It sits between the cassette/freewheel and wheel and prevents the chain slipping into the gap which then forces the derailleur into the spokes. Many bikes actually come with them fitted as they are cheap and help reduce warranty claims however many people and shops remove them as they are seen as unfashionable/undesirable hence the name dork disc. Worth considering though to protect your drivetrain and wheel. Trek was one of the manufacturer's who used to fit them but probably not on their mountain bikes, more likely city bikes, hybrids and children's bikes. The limit screws can go out of adjustment over time on some cheap derailleurs, either the screws move or the end of the screw gets flattened with use. The dork disc is a good indicator of the limit screw being out of adjustment if it starts to get scratched up. In the old days you used to get stylish aluminium sheet dork discs but now they are pretty much low grade plastic. They make sense on a beater bike which you aren't regularly maintaining that much and treat badly. A good quality mountain bike you expect to be getting regular maintenance pretty much as it's used off road normally.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Durable-Bike ... 3270858677