Rounded Hex Head

ayjaycee
ayjaycee Posts: 1,277
edited March 2019 in Workshop
I can't remember doing it but the RD Hanger on my Kinesis 4S seems to have got bent and it needs a new one - even if it could be bent back, I suspect it will only be putting of a problem that will need to be sorted at a later date.. The issue is that the person that I got the frame from (or maybe the bike shop before him) has over-tightened both of the countersunk hex bolts which fix the hanger to the dropout (2.5mm key required). Both have been completely rounded and are impossible to shift (and, I suspect, anti-seize wasn't used either ).

I have seen a number of different extractor tools on-line but few seem suitable for such small fixings. Has anybody had any experience of using them please - successfully or otherwise? Any other ideas would be much appreciated.
Cannondale Synapse Carbon Ultegra
Kinesis Racelight 4S
Specialized Allez Elite (Frame/Forks for sale)
Specialized Crosstrail Comp Disk (For sale)

Comments

  • shiznit76
    shiznit76 Posts: 640
    Have you tried using a bigger but it even a torx headed bit?
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    ayjaycee wrote:
    I can't remember doing it but the RD Hanger on my Kinesis 4S seems to have got bent and it needs a new one - even if it could be bent back, I suspect it will only be putting of a problem that will need to be sorted at a later date.. The issue is that the person that I got the frame from (or maybe the bike shop before him) has over-tightened both of the countersunk hex bolts which fix the hanger to the dropout (2.5mm key required). Both have been completely rounded and are impossible to shift (and, I suspect, anti-seize wasn't used either ).

    I have seen a number of different extractor tools on-line but few seem suitable for such small fixings. Has anybody had any experience of using them please - successfully or otherwise? Any other ideas would be much appreciated.


    If its completely rounded out and seized drill it with a 1.5mm drill but go in from the back.
  • ayjaycee
    ayjaycee Posts: 1,277
    Shiz - Been there but didn't get the T shirt - also tried superglueing the hex key in and a rubber band around the end to get more grip!
    Dog - Thanks for the suggestion - that's getting towards the 'brute force end' of solving the problem but I suspect that's where I'll be in the end. I also thought of trying to drill away the metal of the hanger around the back of the screws (or cut with a Dremel and diamond disk as far as possible) to expose the end of the bolt itself. What I don't know is whether the bolt holes through the actual drop out on the bike are threaded or not. Common sense tells me that only the hanger itself should be / needs to be threaded but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong................

    If the bike dropouts are not threaded, I really don't mind destroying the hanger to get the bolts free as once the hanger has gone, they should just fall out - that's my theory anyway.

    Grateful for any other ideas and whether or not anybody thinks the bolt holes mentioned above would br threaded.
    Cannondale Synapse Carbon Ultegra
    Kinesis Racelight 4S
    Specialized Allez Elite (Frame/Forks for sale)
    Specialized Crosstrail Comp Disk (For sale)
  • proto
    proto Posts: 1,483
    Hammering a Torx key is a good shout.
    If that fails, use a Dremel and a thin cut off wheel to grind a slot into the screw head. Then you might get it out with a flat blade screwdriver.
    In both cases, maybe try some gentle heat. The alum will expand more than the steel and might just break the bond.
    If all else fails, drill through the screw, increasing sizes, until the screw falls apart.
  • faster97
    faster97 Posts: 33
    If you can get good access with a drill (ie the head is on the outside of the frame), it's usually not worth the bother of heating/cutting slots/hammering in a torx bit. I wouldn't even try.

    I would also say using an extractor is an absolute last resort, especially on little stuff like this. There is a really good chance that the extremely hard and brittle extractor will snap off in the hole, which is a much bigger problem than you started with.

    The safest way is to use a drill bigger than the diameter of the threaded portion of the bolt and drill the head straight down the middle until it falls off. If it is the hanger that is threaded, you're home and dry. If it's the frame, there is every chance that the remaining thread will turn out easily once the head is off, as there will no longer be any pressure on the threads.
  • lesfirth
    lesfirth Posts: 1,382
    If you have a friendly garage ( there are some) or access to a MIG welder, protect the frame and weld the thread end of another small bolt to the damaged socket The heat from welding will help free the seized bit . The heat will be very localised and should cause little paint damage. I have not tried this on a bike but I have used this method loads of times on cars.
  • Matthewfalle
    Matthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    remove rear mech and just drill the rounded head off.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • jermas
    jermas Posts: 484
    If your hanger is this one http://www.3654bikes.co.uk/kinesis-racelight-4s-rear-mech-hanger.html the frame isn't threaded. The bolts are like chainring bolts. You might be able to unscrew it from the non-hex side (nut side) with a screw driver. Use penetrating fluid first. If it won't budge, drilling should be easy as you already have a guide hole.
  • edward.s
    edward.s Posts: 219
    If you are going to drill it out, buy a left-handed drill bit. Worst case it will still drill the bolt out but if you are lucky the drill will catch and wind the screw out. LH drill bits are useful things to have around in any case.
  • ayjaycee
    ayjaycee Posts: 1,277
    MF - The problem with that approach is that the heads of the bolts are inside and the other dropout stops you from getting a straight shot at them.

    Jermas - Thanks but it's not that one.

    In any event, job now jobbed. As I suspected the dropouts themselves were not threaded and I drilled the bolts out from the back end after which the bits left (with the rounded heads) just popped out - I sweated a bit doing it but don't think I damaged anything in the process (I'm much better at destroying things than repairing them). The only problem with that is that I have now cattled the bolts and can't tell what size they were to get replacements in. Also there does not seem to be any stocks of replacement hangers anywhere in the country and Kinesis tell me that they won't have any in until late next week which is a bit of a pain.

    Thanks for all the suggestions anyway.
    Cannondale Synapse Carbon Ultegra
    Kinesis Racelight 4S
    Specialized Allez Elite (Frame/Forks for sale)
    Specialized Crosstrail Comp Disk (For sale)
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    Just measure the hanger / frame width for the length but hangers normally come with the bolts.
  • ayjaycee
    ayjaycee Posts: 1,277
    Dog - That's what I thought but I asked Kinesis when I spoke to them and they weren't sure but were going to try to find out and, if not, will advise me of he bolt size. Still waiting for their email.
    Cannondale Synapse Carbon Ultegra
    Kinesis Racelight 4S
    Specialized Allez Elite (Frame/Forks for sale)
    Specialized Crosstrail Comp Disk (For sale)
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    https://www.westbrookcycles.co.uk/kines ... at-p332975 have them in stock. if youre not a Disc user i think its number 12 you need but they dont get listed anywhere so compare visually for a match.
  • ayjaycee
    ayjaycee Posts: 1,277
    https://www.westbrookcycles.co.uk/kinesis-uk-dropout-15-cx-race-evo-tripster-at-p332975 have them in stock. if youre not a Disc user i think its number 12 you need but they dont get listed anywhere so compare visually for a match.
    Actually, the Westbrook website did not have them in stock and they confirmed that when I phoned them yesterday BUT, the helpful chap that I spoke to went into the workshop and found one - he said 'give it 10 minutes and I will put it on the website for you to order' and was true to his word. I ordered yesterday at 1330 hrs, had an email at 1532 saying that UPS would deliver today and another 5 minutes ago saying that it would be here between 1114 and 1214 today. OK, so the P&P was £3.99 but I reckon that's a bargain if it arrives as they say and, in any event, the total was still cheaper and with much quicker delivery than I would have got from Kinesis. All in all, I would give Westbrook Cycles 5 stars all round and will definitely be using them again.
    Cannondale Synapse Carbon Ultegra
    Kinesis Racelight 4S
    Specialized Allez Elite (Frame/Forks for sale)
    Specialized Crosstrail Comp Disk (For sale)
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    ayjaycee wrote:
    https://www.westbrookcycles.co.uk/kinesis-uk-dropout-15-cx-race-evo-tripster-at-p332975 have them in stock. if youre not a Disc user i think its number 12 you need but they dont get listed anywhere so compare visually for a match.
    Actually, the Westbrook website did not have them in stock and they confirmed that when I phoned them yesterday BUT, the helpful chap that I spoke to went into the workshop and found one - he said 'give it 10 minutes and I will put it on the website for you to order' and was true to his word. I ordered yesterday at 1330 hrs, had an email at 1532 saying that UPS would deliver today and another 5 minutes ago saying that it would be here between 1114 and 1214 today. OK, so the P&P was £3.99 but I reckon that's a bargain if it arrives as they say and, in any event, the total was still cheaper and with much quicker delivery than I would have got from Kinesis. All in all, I would give Westbrook Cycles 5 stars all round and will definitely be using them again.

    Thats proper service! Ive always found them helpful. Bricks and morter is not dead after all
  • ayjaycee
    ayjaycee Posts: 1,277
    Properly proper - it actually arrived at 1101 hrs (and came with bolts!).
    Cannondale Synapse Carbon Ultegra
    Kinesis Racelight 4S
    Specialized Allez Elite (Frame/Forks for sale)
    Specialized Crosstrail Comp Disk (For sale)
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    nice. :)
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Westbrooks were similarly quick off the mark when my CR1 fell over in the garage bending the hanger. Scott original complete with threadlocked screws the next day. Top shop!

    Think my Racelight Tk hanger is one of those held on with a chunky chainring type bolt. I must buy a spare; the original has been persuaded back into alignment twice after comedy clipped-in falls. It's living on borrowed time I suspect...
  • ayjaycee
    ayjaycee Posts: 1,277
    Keef - Mine had already been bent back into line once and I suspect that the metal had softened enough that it didn't take much to bend it out of shape again which is why I didn't realise that I had done it.
    Cannondale Synapse Carbon Ultegra
    Kinesis Racelight 4S
    Specialized Allez Elite (Frame/Forks for sale)
    Specialized Crosstrail Comp Disk (For sale)