Dura ace front shifter tension

Tim F

Hi all,

Building a new bike at the moment, trying to get the front derailleur working, doesn't seem to tension on the shifter. Anything I'm missing?

Thanks, Tim

akh

Not sure quite what you're describing. If you're talking Dura Ace 9000 (previous version, 11 speed, silver and black), there's no way to tension the cable without an in-line or frame mounted barrel adjuster. If you're talking Dura Ace 9100 (current version, 11 speed, black), there a tension adjuster built into the front derailleur, but it's fairly limited as to how much slack it can take up.

Try downloading the dealer manual from the shimano website, it's far more detailed and useful than the instructions that come in the box.

https://si.shimano.com/#/en/search/Seri ... &type=ROAD

Tim F

Thanks v much for the link, that's very useful.

The shifters are not pulling on the cable at all. The cable set up I have in terms of slack is correct and when I pull down on the cable the front derailleur is moving. This is 9100 (current version). Any ideas?

pilot_pete

Tim F wrote:

Thanks v much for the link, that's very useful.

The shifters are not pulling on the cable at all. The cable set up I have in terms of slack is correct and when I pull down on the cable the front derailleur is moving. This is 9100 (current version). Any ideas?

A bit hard to say from your description, what do you mean by “the cable set up 8n terms of slack is correct?”

Did you follow the dealer manual guidance for installing the cable? Make sure the shifter is shifted to the ‘small ring’ position, i.e. all tension off, ensure the cable routing is correct from the shifter to the derailleur, then pull up the slack and clamp the cable as per the DM. Then follow the set up instructions for tension, limit adjustments etc.

PP

Tim F

I mean there is no cable movement when pressing the shifters. The cable does not move at all. Despite all set up options I would expect some pull. Even without bothering with alignment and exact gear shifting at this stage, I am simply looking for the cable to work.

I have followed the Shimano set up instructions for both the front and rear derailleurs. The front shifter is "clicking" as if something should happen, the rear shifter is jammed and won't click at all.

Looking closer I may have made a mistake with the way the cable sits within the shifter, there are two ends to the cable in the gorilla cable, I've used the larger which I don't think is sitting correctly in the shifter. On my Ultegra equipped bike I can feel the cable being pulled and it seems to be sat deeper.

pilot_pete

I reckon you are right there, sounds like the shifter is not pulling the cable at all which points to either knackered internals of a jam due to incorrect routing etc. Are the components new?

PP

Tim F

Yeah all components are brand new and they were working (clicking through without a cable installed). I think I have the front derailleur working (ish) now although it's not perfectly moving. The rear shifter is stuck in it's highest position (cable completely removed from the shifter). I can see the cable guide isn't moving. Can you damage these shifters by clicking them without a cable in? That's all I've done and I've not forced anything. Would WD40 or something help or is there some trick to moving the internals by prodding them?

sloppyschleckonds

Tim F wrote:

Yeah all components are brand new and they were working (clicking through without a cable installed). I think I have the front derailleur working (ish) now although it's not perfectly moving. The rear shifter is stuck in it's highest position (cable completely removed from the shifter). I can see the cable guide isn't moving. Can you damage these shifters by clicking them without a cable in? That's all I've done and I've not forced anything. Would WD40 or something help or is there some trick to moving the internals by prodding them?

Dont prod them with anything or wd40 them.

It sounds like you haven't routed the cable correctly. They are a bit fiddly on 9100.
Look at a youtube guide

Tim F

Will do. Do you think I've damaged them? I really haven't done much other than click them a few times!

rafletcher

If you're running DA I don't understand why you don't just run Shimano cables - the cost is minimal. Bog standard (NOT DA polymer coated, nor "Optisllick" are necessary) like this https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-st ... 57503.html are fine. Then you've no issues with proper seating.

No, you can't damage the shifters by using them without cables in.

Front mech - screw the downtube/inline adjuster(s) in fully (this applies equally to the rear, but with the rear leave the adjuster on the mech itself around mid-position), put shifter into lowest gear (small ring), route the cable through the mech, and pull hard on the free end (I use a pair of pliers) and tighten the clamp. You'll then need to screw out the adjuster(s) to fully tension the cable so it shifts out properly.

If the rear shifter is not working then have you checked that the hood is clear of all the mechanical parts? I ask because I have on occasion had the lower part of the hood under the front of the shifter (when I've turned back the hood to access the cable entry point) jam part of the shift mechanism and stop the internal springs from doing their job! :oops: I'm also assuming you haven't any broken bits of cable inside it.

WD40 won't help, and anyway it's shit stuff as when it dries out it get sticky and attracts dirt. Avoid. It's a Water Dispersant, not a lubricant. And lubricant won't help much either as it'll also attract dirt. In general avoid getting anything in the shifter mechanisms. If they've been lubricated before then possibly some spray degreaser might help, but that's a last resort before a new shifter IMO.

StillGoing

Are you sure you haven't inadvertently crossed the two cable inners and have got the rear going to the front shifter (hence why nothing is visibly happening to the front mech when operating it) and the rear shifter connected to the front mech (hence why it is too stiff to operate)?

Tim F

Thanks all, I'll check all of that.

- I have bought some Shimano inner gear cable so will try it. I was running more expensive cables as they were lighter.

- I don't think I'm cross threading the cables (rear shifter connected to the front mech). The set up is the same as on my Ultegra set. Is there ever any case of Shimano switching the left and right on these leavers or are they all universally the same?

- Need to double check that the hood is free from the mechanicals.

- Glad you can't damage them by just clicking, seems likely that I can undo whatever is going on then. The smaller inner gear shift leaver is doing nothing at the moment.

Will keep trying!

photonic69

If you have no cables installed at all then the LHS shifter "should" shift up and down with no problems, especially if brand new. However, if they have been compromised with some badly installed cables then they might stick and need to use the cable tension to help it shift down.

Are the cables internally or externally routed? If external then pull the cable inner away from the down tube with your fingers and operate the shifter up and down to see if the cable is actually moving.

If no cable movement is detected then you have probably threaded the cable wrong. Is it possible you shifted the lever into the 'big ring' position before installing the cable? I almost did something similar when installing some 105 shifters as my son was playing with them when my back was turned and shifter them up.

Hope you solve the issue soon. Good luck

Tim F

PhotoNic69 wrote:

If you have no cables installed at all then the LHS shifter "should" shift up and down with no problems, especially if brand new. However, if they have been compromised with some badly installed cables then they might stick and need to use the cable tension to help it shift down.

Are the cables internally or externally routed? If external then pull the cable inner away from the down tube with your fingers and operate the shifter up and down to see if the cable is actually moving.

If no cable movement is detected then you have probably threaded the cable wrong. Is it possible you shifted the lever into the 'big ring' position before installing the cable? I almost did something similar when installing some 105 shifters as my son was playing with them when my back was turned and shifter them up.

Hope you solve the issue soon. Good luck

Thanks for this. I've ordered the Shimano inner cable to see if that fixes the problem. I think you may be correct on the sticking bit. Cables are internally routed and I can pull them however I think the cable isn't connecting properly at the moment, the end piece may be too large and (this is the best I can see) is stuck inside the shifter body rather than connecting properly. It is very likely I've shifted into the big ring (rear derailleur), looking inside the shifter it appears to have rotated round. I hope that makes sense!

I'm using Alliagtor shift cables (the standard ones), does anyone know if there are compatibility issues with the supplied internal wires and shimano shifters?

photonic69

Cable end should look like D in this link

https://www.bikeman.com/bicycle-repair- ... -a-housing

Tim F

UPDATE!

So I got the Shimano inner cable, managed to push this into the shifter and pull the cable around a bit. Then nothing happened. I then took the shifter off the bike along with taking all the cables out to take it to a mechanic. Now it is off the bike it is now WORKING!. I have no idea what's going on now.

Will try and hook this up again tonight, but something very odd is going on!

rafletcher

As I said upthread, check carefully that the hood isn't fouling any of the mechanism - in particular on the "inside" face of the shifter near the bottom. It only needs slight pressure to disrupt the ratchet action.

photonic69

rafletcher wrote:

As I said upthread, check carefully that the hood isn't fouling any of the mechanism - in particular on the "inside" face of the shifter near the bottom. It only needs slight pressure to disrupt the ratchet action.

^^^^^^^
This - you have the hood pulled forward to install the cable and it will foul the smaller lever preventing it from fully returning.

mugensi

Tim F wrote:

UPDATE!

So I got the Shimano inner cable, managed to push this into the shifter and pull the cable around a bit. Then nothing happened. I then took the shifter off the bike along with taking all the cables out to take it to a mechanic. Now it is off the bike it is now WORKING!. I have no idea what's going on now.

Will try and hook this up again tonight, but something very odd is going on!

Why would you take the shifter only to the mechanic, take the whole bike as I would say that you haven't set it up correctly and the LBS can set it up properly for you but only so long as they have the full bike to work with.

Alejandrosdog

PhotoNic69 wrote:

rafletcher wrote:

As I said upthread, check carefully that the hood isn't fouling any of the mechanism - in particular on the "inside" face of the shifter near the bottom. It only needs slight pressure to disrupt the ratchet action.

^^^^^^^
This - you have the hood pulled forward to install the cable and it will foul the smaller lever preventing it from fully returning.

wot these guys said

Tim F

I know about the small lever guys, I can clearly see it. I can categorically tell you it wasn't that. Appreciate it may seem like the hoods were blocking this but I think it's more likely that when I got the new Shimano cable and put some pressure on it (it fitted correctly) this freed up the mechanism.

I was taking the shifter off as the bike, is in bits being built, and the shops I spoke to were happy just to take a look at the shifter on its own.

Anyway at the moment BIG thanks to all your suggestions and help. Hopefully I'll get no more problems

svetty

PhotoNic69 wrote:

rafletcher wrote:

As I said upthread, check carefully that the hood isn't fouling any of the mechanism - in particular on the "inside" face of the shifter near the bottom. It only needs slight pressure to disrupt the ratchet action.

^^^^^^^
This - you have the hood pulled forward to install the cable and it will foul the smaller lever preventing it from fully returning.

I agree - sounds like the rubber hood fouling the mechanism