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“Future Proof Value for Money” Aerobike (Canyon, Specialized, Cervélo, etc.)

heinzbushheinzbush Posts: 6
edited February 2019 in Road buying advice
Hi All,

I’m an avid reader on this forum and have read about a million posts. Still I’m left a bit confused (maybe even more confused than before).

Background:
Hobby cyclist doing about two 70.3 Ironmans a year... just for fun, to stay fit, etc.

I used an old road bike until now, and want to buy my first “proper bike”. It should be an Aero, to give me a good mixture / balance between Tri-bike and Training bike. I wont buy two. I will keep the bike for a long time.
Plus, I admit, they look awesome which will lead me to use it often :)

There are many guides about “the best” bike, but not a lot about “value for money”. Here was my thinking...

I was pretty much set on buying the plain vanilla Canyon Aeroad 2019 for 2,800 Euro... then I thought:
- I should upgrade to discs... or better...
- I should upgrade to disc + electric DI2 —> 4,700 Euro

Then I was in a local bike shop and looked at
- 2019 Specialized Venge Disc + DI2 —> 7,200k
As well as a
- 2018 Cervélo S3 Disc DI2 Enve —> 5,500k

These are basically my main options... As I want to keep the bike for a long time, my thinking was to buy a bike which ticks all the boxes of “good specs/trends today”, i.e. disc, DI2, integrated cables)... but only the 7,2k can do this... a 4,400k price up to the plain vanilla Canyon Aeroad!

Just curious to hear your thoughts :)

Posts

  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    Spend a grand or so on a TT bike. The position it puts you in is worth more than any fancy aero frame. You're the biggest cause of drag.

    Using a road bike even if it is aero is throwing away speed.

    7k for a bike is crazy and it'll be out of fashion next year. The trends of today won't be in vogue in the future. Very much diminished returns once you get past 3k or so.
  • cougie wrote:
    Spend a grand or so on a TT bike. The position it puts you in is worth more than any fancy aero frame. You're the biggest cause of drag.

    Using a road bike even if it is aero is throwing away speed.

    If you're tri-focused then go for the TT bike. Race and train on it to dial your position. If you ride with a bunch regularly (or at all) then go the aero road bike. I wouldn't bother with discs as most tri legs are pretty flat so you don't need them (I could be wrong here). Electric shifting is pretty awesome, again personal preference.
  • stueysstueys Posts: 1,332
    So, the quick answer is that value for money is the aeroroad, yep it’s an older design now but the most recent tour test shows it’s aero performance is still up there with the latest Venge, systemsix, etc. Canyon will probably replace that design later this year or next.

    Slightly longer answer is that any new bike is going to depreciate like a brick. Whether you buy the Venge, etc, etc, when you sell it most of that new purchase price has disappeared. So future proofing from a resale value means getting something in the sale (for instance a 2018 c5 from sigma which is heavily discounted). Of the new trends, DI2 is nice but not essential, integrated cabling looks nice but doesn’t make that much difference to aero if your front end is reasonably tidy, discs work better and I suspect most of the new wheel development will be disc centric going forward. But only you can answer whether you want to drop an extra 2-3k over an already highly optimised aero bike to get the latest and greatest.

    The new Venge does look epic though.....
  • For an Ironman 70.3 even a reasonably basic TT bike will be faster than a flash aero road bike. You can narrow the gap with tribars but that's a bodge and the rest of the geometry won't be quite right e.g. the seat post angle, top tube length etc. For a Tri, it's just easier to hold speed on a TT bike which saves you for the run.

    Personally I think you should relax your "one bike" rule and get an Aeroad and a Speedmax, which would cost you the same as a Venge. I bet you that after 5 years you'd get more for selling both of them than a single Venge too.
  • arlowoodarlowood Posts: 2,519
    Nothing is ever really future proof. Fashions and technology change - so if you are buying a bike to guarantee it will hold it's value into the future then you are definitely into crystal ball territory.

    If you're really after value for money in an aero bike then one option is the Planet X EC130. Available in various build options from around the £1300 mark including a Campagnolo EPS vesion at £2000. If you don't fancy Campag then they may be prepared to offer a Di2 or Etap build if you talk to them.

    At £2000 you would have loads left from your budget to upgrade wheels etc if you have a mind to.

    Aero bike of the year in 2017 according to Cycling Weekly

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCBZJrRUbB4
  • stueysstueys Posts: 1,332
    super_davo wrote:
    Personally I think you should relax your "one bike" rule and get an Aeroad and a Speedmax, which would cost you the same as a Venge. I bet you that after 5 years you'd get more for selling both of them than a single Venge too.


    This. Great idea
  • Wow! So much feedback already and great comments...

    Reading all of this, I wonder about the speedmax, yet I read so many articles about the marginal difference between a TT bike vs a road/aero bike with tribars. I understood that on the Aeroad you can turn around the seat post and mount tribars to get more of a tri position.

    So wouldn’t I heavily comprise comfort on speedmax for just a “few seconds” advantage compared to an Aeroad with Tribars?
  • joey54321joey54321 Posts: 1,297
    heinzbush wrote:
    Wow! So much feedback already and great comments...

    Reading all of this, I wonder about the speedmax, yet I read so many articles about the marginal difference between a TT bike vs a road/aero bike with tribars. I understood that on the Aeroad you can turn around the seat post and mount tribars to get more of a tri position.

    So wouldn’t I heavily comprise comfort on speedmax for just a “few seconds” advantage compared to an Aeroad with Tribars?

    It's FAR more than a few seconds when you take into account proper body position that you can get with a TT bike. Between the bikes by themselves in a wind tunnel, yeah, it's probably seconds, but over an iron man type distance with a person on, I would have thought it could be upwards of 10-15 mins over an iron man bike leg.

    If you have the storage get two bikes. If you don't have storage for 2, get an older aero bike. I got a Scott Foil (previous gen) a few years ago, the frame cost ~£200 after I sold some of the bits that came with it, then built it up with Zipp 404s and DI2, all in it was < £1500 or so and probably doesn't lose much to top end bikes these days.
  • 2 bikes.

    A decent TT one for your races, plus anything you can then afford with the money you have left for group rides and cafe runs.

    Sorted.
  • philbar72philbar72 Posts: 2,228
    go the cheap tt frame (that fits) for the ironman, and a decent road bike for general training.
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Future-proof, value for money, and aero are terms that don't really belong in the same sentence. VFM + aero is the best you can aim for, as suggested above.
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    Can you even fit Tri bars to the aeroad ?
  • gsk82gsk82 Posts: 2,905
    Future proof = round tubes not aero tubes
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • cougie wrote:
    Can you even fit Tri bars to the aeroad ?

    Yes indeed... based on my research, many offer a solution, either by using a different bar, or by offering tribars that fit the custom aero shape... e.g Canyon offers special Profile Design tribars for their H36 cockpit...
  • Well, if you're by chance anything resembling 6ft or so, I'd seriously consider that Epoca TT bike for sale in the Classifieds here...
  • lakesludditelakesluddite Posts: 1,332
    I think if you really don't want to buy two bikes, then a proper aero road bike with clip-on's is the next best option. I would say to get the best you can afford, but don't put too much emphasis on being future proof - the next innovation will be just around the corner!
    I would say electronic groupset and hydro disc brakes is about as up to date as it goes, along with aero frame. The Aeroad fits the bill nicely, and it looks pretty great as well.

    As far as I can see, those Profile Design aerobars for the H36 bars are the short, ITU legal (ie drafting legal) type, not the sort that you would need for long distance non-drafting triathlon. I think you would need to get alloy bars, as it's not recommended that you put clip-ons onto carbon bars.

    For what it's worth, I am putting a similar thing together at the moment - ie aero frame road bike for tri/TT with clip-ons, but at a much smaller budget. I chose the Planet X EC180 frame and am putting cheap(ish) ebay components and some 60mm wheels on there. This is mainly because the triathlons I do are in hilly areas, so a road bike makes more sense - changing gear from the shifters/brakes as opposed to reaching for the extensions to change gear all the time.
  • Thanks so much for all your comments, highly appreciated!

    As I live fairly close to Canyon Headquarter, I will go there tomorrow to check out the bikes.

    Based on your feedback, I narrowed it down to 2 options:
    - Aeroad with a tribar option
    - speedmax cf
    ...likely without DI2 to stay around/ below 3k...

    I am (still) not sure / convinced how much the difference on a 90km HIM ride would be. Im aware that Joey mentioned earlier it’s „far more than few secs“, but interestingly there seem to be no tests to compare aero with tribar vs TT bike...

    Anyway, will go with my guts on Saturday ;)
  • Speedmax with a DI2 it is!

    Will use it mainly for Tri and training for Tris, so it makes sense..


    Instead of converting a road bike to a TriBike, I might think of doing it the other way around for the occasional just for fun tour... e.g. getting the bar higher, removing the aero bars, different saddle angle, etc... will have a Look at this Later on...


    Thanks for all your input!
  • gsk82gsk82 Posts: 2,905
    heinzbush wrote:
    Speedmax with a DI2 it is!

    Will use it mainly for Tri and training for Tris, so it makes sense..


    Instead of converting a road bike to a TriBike, I might think of doing it the other way around for the occasional just for fun tour... e.g. getting the bar higher, removing the aero bars, different saddle angle, etc... will have a Look at this Later on...


    Thanks for all your input!

    That would require changing the handlebars and all the cables. I've never heard of anyone doing that
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    That's a really poor decision. You race twice a year ? A Tri bike is great for racing but not great on the road.
  • cougie wrote:
    That's a really poor decision. You race twice a year ? A Tri bike is great for racing but not great on the road.

    A tri bike is a poor choice for road riding in a group, long tours, mountain passes etc. but if your primary goal is training for triathlons... I don't see the issue. I definitely wouldn't attempt to convert it to a road bike, though, just keep your existing bike for that until your budget stretches to get that Aeroad as well.
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    Don't get me wrong the tt bike is great for racing but he's not a hardened racer. I love my TT bike but the road bike gets far more mileage. It's nicer to ride.
  • If you just a hobby cyclist think carefully about getting a TT bike. I know a few triathletes that bought them, never rode them (bit of a learning curve, tricky to handle, not versatile) and sold them. Another good option aero bike is the Merida Reacto, cheaper than other aero bikes. Get the cheaper version without aero handle bars and you can fit clip on TT bars. That goes for the Aeroad too.
  • chippykchippyk Posts: 529
    cougie wrote:
    Don't get me wrong the tt bike is great for racing but he's not a hardened racer. I love my TT bike but the road bike gets far more mileage. It's nicer to ride.

    Unless I’m training for or in an triathlon, I won’t use the word race at my speed, my TT bike stays in the garage collecting dust and being the focal point of my wife ask ‘what do you need another bike for when you have all these you barely use?’. I did IM Wales last year and used my Ridley Noah because of the hills.

    On the subject of TT bikes, at my speed and age, I’m not sure how much difference say a new Bolide would make over my Planet X. Difference with a TT bike is I find it harder to get off and run than, I had surgery on my back a few years ago and I’m nowhere near as flexible as I was.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    No new road bike has good resale value. To get it sold you end up selling for less than you want. That why I keep on collecting bikes I bare to to part with one for what it would actually sell for.

    Aero is not a trend it also real. the OP position, and clothing are very important but wheesl even the right tyres for the wheels and the bike frame all add up. the difference is pace with wheels alone compared to say mavic kyrseriums is tangeable. It not just on paper or in ones head.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
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