2000 Specialized Allez Comp - Modern Equivalent (Scottish Weather)?

voicycle

Anyone familiar enough with the early 2000s Specialized Allez to make some 2019 Carbon Disc equivalent recommendations? I can't find a geometry chart but I know it was popular so hopefully some on here remember it.

TL:DR I'm a relatively new roadie looking for recommendations on a low to mid level Ultegra carbon disc race bike. I spent a lot of last year on a 19 year old Allez and loved it, though I found it a tiny bit harsh.

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Too many details to tell the story fully, but the oversimplified (and still rather long) version is: I got into road cycling around this time last year after years of Hardtail MTB touring, couriering, then road touring. In August I decided I'd outgrown my "best value of the year" 105 equipped B'Twin and upgraded it to an alloy Synapse 105 disc - a perfect year-round bike for Glasgow and surrounds.

Around the same time my dad was dying of cancer in California, so I spent a big chunk of the year there. He has/had a model year 2000 Specialized Allez A1 Comp (9spd Ultegra). He was a man that liked the idea of being into hobbies far more than he actually liked doing the hobbies themselves, so other than swapping out for an XT rear mech plus larger cassette and double wrapping the bar tape, he didn't do much with the bike. I'd be surprised if he put 100 miles on it. So I had it cleaned up by the LBS, put some GP4000s on to replace the brittle OEM tyres (25c 4000s were a bit too big, so on the most recent trip I put a 25c GP5000 on the rear which solved clearance issues), and then rode the bike as part of my self-care regime whilst he was dying. Only other thing I've done to it is strip the bar tape entirely and put some DSP on. I put about 1000 miles on it in 2018, which was nearly a third of all my mileage and more than double the time I spent on the Synapse.

At first I found the Specialized really stiff and immensely racey in position, but I adapted quick. My hands still go numb on rides over 60mi/100k so it does make me fatigue faster than I'm used to, but I think I might actually prefer the position overall. Now that the illness/death/funeral/etc. are all done and I'm finally home in Glasgow for a while, I keep finding myself wishing I still had access to the Allez (I could bring it here but then wouldn't have anything to ride when visiting mum). I expect a big part of it is down to the fact that road quality is sh!t here compared to CA. Also, especially in the last few months I've essentially been riding in summer conditions in CA and winter conditions in Scotland - sometimes just 2 or 3 days apart - so it's a major shift in clothing, mudguards, tyre choice/size, etc. It adds up to an instantaneous difference of about 3mph average speed over 40ish miles, which obviously has a major effect on my perception of my abilities.

Too many details Alex, cut to the chase:

Anyway, the point is that n+1 wasn't satisfied for long by the Synapse. I've got to wait at least 6 months til I pay off the current finance plan, but I'm already starting to watch sales, year end closeouts, etc. for a 'Summer Bike' and am looking for tips on geometry/handling/etc. I'm thinking I probably want a carbon frame for comfort. Given our 'summer' weather I'd also like it to have disc brakes (and I'd like to be able to swap wheelsets between the two road bikes - have already had a pair built for the Synapse which would be very utilitarian on a summer racer in certain conditions).

My first thought was an Orbea Orca Disc (M20 or M20i), but they sure do stack up on the expensive end of the spectrum. Similar with Tarmac, which I expect is the most direct comparison to the old Allez. Seems like all the top makes only do a disc racer in their ultralight (rather than standard) carbon layup which puts the price point somewhere around £3.5-4k. I noticed someone link to last year's Genesis Z1 disc in another buying advice thread - it seemed like a great deal, but I realised I didn't have anything to compare the geometry to. Same with Wiggle/CRC's Vitus Vitesse Disc (sold out for last model year but presumably coming back soon in 2019 edition). I'm sure the other usual suspects have equivalent options too, and I'd be open to consider any of them.

I think my spec is:
- Carbon disc
- Race or relaxed race geo
- Ultegra or Ultegra Di2 groupset
- £2k target spend, but I'm a sucker for a great deal, can probably be a bit flexible, and am looking to make the purchase 6-10 months down the line.
- Used is totally fair game but disc race bikes are new enough that I don't expect to find much out there.
- I enjoy doing my own maintenance and am relatively competent at most things, so I'd definitely have fun building up from scratch, but if a built bike is cheaper for the same spec then I'd rather do that.
- 52cm Y2K Allez is perfect for me, but on the 2019 Synapse it's a 54 (I've shortened the stem on the Synapse but don't feel I need to on the Allez).

Best Allez Links I can find are as follows:
https://www.bikepedia.com/QuickBike/Bik ... item=46272
https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/searchl ... x?id=46272
https://www.roadbikereview.com/product/ ... -comp.html

I'm sure I'm forgetting something so just let me know what other details I ought to provide in order to get your recommendations. Thanks and happy riding!

philbar72

so you want a carbon disc bike equivalent of a 2000 allez in terms of fit? is that what I'm reading. whats the size you have there and stem length/ bars etc?

voicycle

Aye I think so. It’s a 52cm frame. I’m away from it just now but it definitely has whatever stem and bar sizes came stock. Based on feel I think the bars must be 420mm wide (wider than a set of 400s I used to ride and not noticeably different from either my synapse or Dawes galaxy, which are both 420). Cockpit is all Ritchey Logic Pro. Has full drops but obviously anything modern will be compact and that’s fine.

keef66

https://www.rutlandcycling.com/bikes/ro ... lsrc=aw.ds

Does that tick enough of your boxes?

voicycle

Thanks Keef - that's a pretty good shout! I'm not a fan of Giant's hybrid braking system, but it's not necessarily a deal breaker. Definitely adding that bike to the list.

Do you have experience with that Giant hydraulic system? Am I right to be wary of it?

keef66

Hadn't actually looked at the spec of the brakes; no personal experience of that or Giants I'm afraid. They are pretty well regarded on here though.

How about a Cube? My son got a full carbon + mostly Ultegra 6800 rim braked bike for a penny under a grand in the sales. His was their sportive geometry but they do race bikes too, and I'd have thought you'd get what you want for £2k.

keef66

https://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m7b67s6p9 ... -DISC-2018

Here's a bargain if the sizes suit you. Son got his from Paul's.

keef66

If you'd be happy with mail order, check out Rose, Canyon, Ribble etc?

https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-aero-883-disc/
https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/bikemodel/x ... ur-disc/51
https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultim ... c-8-0.html

arlowood

keef66 wrote:

If you'd be happy with mail order, check out Rose, Canyon, Ribble etc?

https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-aero-883-disc/
https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/bikemodel/x ... ur-disc/51
https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultim ... c-8-0.html

+1 for the Rose X-lite Four Disc. It's a bit above your budget for the Ultegra version (~£2.5K) but the 105 version is closer (~£2.2K). I've recently taken delivery of the rim braked 105 model and I'm delighted with it. It's light and stiff and comfortable and will take 28mm tyres easily so I suspect the disc version will take at least 28 if not bigger

I was a little nervous about the "mail order from Germany" issue but there was no need. Good comms via email and order progress and delivery tracking were spot on.

voicycle

Thanks - the Rose and the Canyon there both look excellent. Not sure about the Ribble as I hadn't necessarily thought about an aero bike - also if you pick any wheels other than the Aksiums the price gets up there pretty fast on that guy. Cube looks good if found in the sales, but the Rose and Canyon are the two that really stand out in terms of spec (unless I'm mistaken).

The Rose looks like very slightly more aggressive geometry (a likely unnoticeable reach and stack difference of only 2-4mm), seems to have marginally better wheels, and less fancy bars. Guessing the fact that it weighs less than the Canyon means that difference is probably mostly in the frame?

Also thinking with the Rose it might make sense to buy in 105 spec - everything else is the same, weight penalty is minimal, and it would make for a slightly more exciting Di2 upgrade down the line. Unfortunately it looks like if you drop to 105 on the Canyon you also downgrade your wheels, which is a shame.

Anyone know if Rose or Canyon let you do 0% finance with V12 or similar? That might not affect what I buy but it could certainly make a difference in WHEN I buy. I do have good credit so I suppose I could always get one of those 0% intro offer cards and set up a d/d to make my own finance scheme.

Also does anyone recall roughly what time of year Canyon and Rose turn over their model year and start discounting the old ones? Is it August/September like most manufacturers?
Do either of them ever have other kinds of sales?

arlowood

The X lite 4 and 6 are relatively new additions to the Rose range so maybe unlikely they will be discounted at the moment. Rose however do seem to offer sales on an ongoing basis. The link below shows what's on available currently.

https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/bikes/sale/road

Don't seem to offer finance but you could take up your option of a 0% credit card with a DD to clear the balance over 12 months

voicycle

2 Updates:

First, I emailed Specialized and they sent me the 2001 Allez Geometry charts. Looks like stack and reach weren't common use measurements then but these numbers are still really helpful in comparisons. (I've not tried to embed a photo on this forum yet but hopefully it's below)



Second, I know I was looking to buy 6-10 months down the line but I got trigger happy. The Vitus I mentioned in my original post showed up again in 52cm briefly and I bought it on 0% finance. Maybe a foolish decision - I'm in no danger of missing payments but unless it's a good financial year I might end up dipping into savings that I shouldn't really be using for bikes. Anyway it's this: http://vitusbikes.com/products/vitesse- ... egra-2018/ and was £1649 on Wiggle. I just couldn't see finding a deal like that again til at least September and thought it would be nice to use this summer. It's also the only Vitus Vitesse paint scheme I've liked from the last couple years, so unless the 2019 model is a totally new (and superior) frame design I thought it a safe bet that I'll like this one more than next year's.

I don't know much about geometry but from what I can tell it's overall just a bit more relaxed than the old Allez (and the current Allez/Tarmac too it seems). Only potential red flag for me is the chainstay length. It's unusually long for this class of bike at 415mm. The old Allez was 400 (though I struggled to get 25c GP4000 in it). Rose/Canyon/Orbea/Spesh/etc. all seem to have chainstays in the 405-410mm range. It makes for a wheelbase 14mm longer than the Allez overall, and a bit longer than most of the bikes it's designed to compete with.

No test ride guarantee on the Vitus, but I'm guessing I can get away with setting it up on the turbo to get a sense for fit etc, and only pay the £25 return shipping fee if I don't like it. That should be relatively enlightening I hope. Only issue is it means I really won't know how it handles until after I've taken it out on the road and bought it for good. Anyone have thoughts they want to share about differences in the two geometry charts? Anything else you'd expect me to notice comparing the two bikes to one another?

Alternately, does anyone think I might get my hands on the Rose or Canyon for anywhere near the same price if I'm patient enough? My guess is no.

If all else fails and I don't like the Vitus I figure it's got a nice enough component list that I could strip it down and build everything up on a new frameset a year or two down the line.

Cheers!

voicycle

Vitus arrived with cracked FD braze on mount. Back to Square One:

I chased Wiggle at the beginning of the week to see why the Vitus still showed as 'not yet processed.' No explanation but they got it shipped in 24 hours. Arrived on Thursday and at first look was pretty excellent. Didn't really pedal on it, but I got position set up and sat on it and it felt like exactly what I was looking for. Looked ace too.

It came with 420mm bars and 172.5mm cranks, and was missing its chain catcher (52cm is spec'd as 400mm and 170mm), so I sent an email about these things.

When I went to double check fine tuning/indexing though I discovered that the front derailleur braze-on had a crack in it and had about 5 degrees of lateral play. I can't tell for sure but it looks like maybe it was repaired before. This would also explain why the chain catcher was left off (and if there was a crash or transit damage then perhaps also an explanation for the outsize bars and cranks). It was the very last 52cm and availability only showed up after it had already been sold out for a while, so I imagine my copy was either returned or damaged or something and got put back into the mix later on.

Have now sent a follow up email to Wiggle advising that I'll be re-boxing the bike over the weekend to send back for good. Hopefully they'll be accommodating and I won't have to fight them over the return shipping costs. Too bad since I'd really come round to the bike, but maybe a sign I shouldn't have spent the money so soon after all.

Back to watching out for other deals as and when they come up.

Klaus B

Focus izalco race disc 9.9. I think it's got the right geometry and seems to be good quality at a good value. Don't forget that they were in the pro peloton on the podium of the tour de france couple of years ago, and they produce nice cross bikes.