MTB tool recommendations

pikeman65

My tool kit is increasing week on week but I need some help with what shock pump to buy that's compatible with the Whyte t-130 s, in fact I could do with knowing which BB tool I need and which cassette tool I need too please, if possible some links would be really helpful, thank in advance.

Sean.

JBA

A shock pump is a shock pump. Get whichever one is in your price range / you like the look of.

What year is the bike? Whyte changed the spec a few times so different bottom brackets and cassettes have been used.

pikeman65

I've not got it yet but I'm planning on getting a 2018 model, thanks for pointing that out about the model change, I'm glad I asked this because I was going to buy one that could have been wrong, and thanks for the advice on the shock pump, I'll buy one that I like the look of then, cheers mate

Sean.

JBA

The 2018 model has a GXP XR bottom bracket and an XD drive rear hub so you need the appropriate tools to fit them.

Parktool BBT-9 will do it.

A standard splined cassette tool is all that’s needed for the cassette, plus a chain whip.

There are quite a few stories of XD cassettes being nearly impossible to unscrew so it’s a good idea to remove it as soon as you get the bike and grease the threads.

pikeman65

Nice one, thanks for the link, and thanks for the knowledge too, I've already got the chain whip, bought one late last year, I'll order myself one of those BB tools, thanks again.

Sean.

pikeman65

Sorry to be a pain but I can't find the cassette tool, I've ordered the BB tool but I can only find the tool for the 11 speed cassette, any chance you can send me a link please, or is it the same as the 12 speed on the t-130 s, thanks.

Sean.

JBA

It’s a standard cassette lock ring tool.

Carve

Cheap(ish) shock pump, you wont use it that much, dont be fooled by brands its all plastic made in china.

JBA

My Fox shock pump was cheap, about £20 I think, but has a nice quality alunimium body. It’s about 7 years old snd still works perfectly.

JBA

I looked at the 2019 spec, sorry.

The 2018 model has a SRAM XR GXP bottom bracket.
I have updated my post above.

Cancel your order!

spangoolies

One thing I recommend with the shock pump is get one with a 2 stage removal system. This basicly allows you to unscrew the pump without losing any air. I've had numerous pumps that often lose a lot of air as it can take a few seconds to unscrew them meaning I had to over inflate to compensate. I bought a very small Topeak micro pressure-rite anti air loss shock pump and it's great as you lose no air at all and it's so small and lite I keep it in my pack on long rides. Only problem is it doesn't have a gauge but I set my suspension up using visual sag. There are many larger pumps out there with this system with gauges though.

larkim

It's that not an urban myth that you lose pressure like that? I thought the explosion of air when your remove valves is just the pressure in the pump itself being released? I could be utterly wrong here!!!

JBA

There’s a lot of pressure in a small volume in bike suspension and you normally do lose a few psi when you remove the pump, but not a lot.
To minimise the loss don’t over-tighten the adaptor when you screw it on to the valve. Screw it on slowly until the gauge shows pressure and then just add a quarter of a turn.

The Rookie

larkim wrote:

Is that not an urban myth that you lose pressure like that?

Yup, and because when they reconnect the pump they see a lower pressure, they forget that air has just come out the shock to pressurise the hose and gauge and so the pressure will always show a drop when you reconnect, it's not from when you disconnect!

Only time I've had an issue disconnecting was once when the valve just didn't close for some reason and dumped all the pressure, nothing would have saved that.

steve_sordy

I had a faulty Schrader valve on the shock on a new bike a few years ago. It always let out 20-30 psi, no matter how fast or carefully I removed the hose. On the 6 week check, the LBS replaced the valve - problem solved.

swod1

just don't press the button on the shock pump as I found out one time when I first got air forks. thought you pressed it and then could take the pump off.

spangoolies

The Rookie wrote:

larkim wrote:

Is that not an urban myth that you lose pressure like that?

Yup, and because when they reconnect the pump they see a lower pressure, they forget that air has just come out the shock to pressurise the hose and gauge and so the pressure will always show a drop when you reconnect, it's not from when you disconnect!

Only time I've had an issue disconnecting was once when the valve just didn't close for some reason and dumped all the pressure, nothing would have saved that.

No it's not a myth as topeak and other companies wouldn't have spent so much into a development of a system that I and some of my friends find really effective. Some people have no problems with air loss, some people do. I did have problems with my old spesh enduro which had their own brand suspension that I think was developed with Fox. Both the forks and shock had problems with too much air loss on pump removal. Didn't over tighten and every time I lost lots of air before I could fully remove the pump and trust me I'm a very confident amateur mechanic and I can tell the difference between the amount of air that's stored in the pump and hose and that of which is in the shock/fork. I build all my own bikes, build/lace and true my wheels and service all my suspension and been doing this for over 25 years (less on the suspension). If you didn't unscrew the pump in time the suspension would literally dump all of the air from the unit. I changed the valves and still no change. Tried 3 different pumps and the only thing that worked was a 2 stage pump and it made suspension set up faultless every time. I can only imagine the spacing of the valve and the o-ring seal on the pump wasn't spaced well. I also had similar problems on a BOS VIP-r shock and some friend of mine have had similar experiences with marzocchi and rockshox suspension in the past and all have 2 stage pumps now. My current bike with 2018 lyriks and super deluxe works perfect with a standard pump, no air loss at all but I know excessive air loss isn't a myth and it's not down to stupidity. It happens and it's easily controlled with the pumps that have been developed to combat it

The Rookie

Not sure how you 'unscrew a pump in time' if both are correctly sized the valve is shut before the valve is unscrewed enough to leak, I've got three different pumps including a topeak and none has a 2 stage system (which hardly costs a lot to develop but would be a nice earner I guess), they all just unscrew.

Some may have a sizing issue, either the schrader valve not sitting in far enough or the pin in the pump longer than it should be and leaving the valve open longer. I too build all my own and have never had an issue with any air fork or shock with any of the pumps except that one time when it lost the lot (and was whooshing out for a few seconds with the pump right off).

spangoolies

The Rookie wrote:

Not sure how you 'unscrew a pump in time' if both are correctly sized the valve is shut before the valve is unscrewed enough to leak, I've got three different pumps including a topeak and none has a 2 stage system (which hardly costs a lot to develop but would be a nice earner I guess), they all just unscrew.

Some may have a sizing issue, either the schrader valve not sitting in far enough or the pin in the pump longer than it should be and leaving the valve open longer. I too build all my own and have never had an issue with any air fork or shock with any of the pumps except that one time when it lost the lot (and was whooshing out for a few seconds with the pump right off).

Unscrew it time means exactly that, unscrewing it in time. Don't know how I can describe it any better for you. They must have been poorly spaced as like i said, I tried multiple pumps and even changed the valves and no I didn't over tighten. Also had a similar problem with a bos shock where it would proceed to empty the air from the shock from half way unscrewed until the pump was completely removed from the valve. Like I also said, I know of other people who have experienced this, people who are also competent mechanics and people who are not stupid who know the difference between air from the pump and excessive lost air from the shock. Topeak and other companies must also know of this and have developed a solution, not just for a little earner. Just because you and your friends have not experienced it does not mean it's a myth or doesn't exist.

larkim

I do think you're giving a bit too much credit to the pump companies. "Features" can commonly be sales tools rather than real practical benefits.

I don't doubt your experience, and you've got me curious to try out a couple of schraeder valves tonight on the basis of slowly removing them and seeing if the tyre or pump deflates.

It should be incredibly trivial to engineer a pump screw head not to lose air though, I can't imagine its a real design challenge for a pump manufacturer.

spangoolies

larkim wrote:

I do think you're giving a bit too much credit to the pump companies. "Features" can commonly be sales tools rather than real practical benefits.

I don't doubt your experience, and you've got me curious to try out a couple of schraeder valves tonight on the basis of slowly removing them and seeing if the tyre or pump deflates.

It should be incredibly trivial to engineer a pump screw head not to lose air though, I can't imagine its a real design challenge for a pump manufacturer.

I can only put it down to spacing of the valve and the pin in the pump not being inside the tolerances with the seal spacing on those particular shocks/forks. Also don't forget a shock is highly pressured compared to a tyre. It's not like I saw the 2 stage pump and thought what could I use that for. I didn't know they existed and I was having a crap time for a year any time I adjusted the suspension. Whilst out on a ride my mate lent me his pump that had the anti air loss system and I thought it was great, solved my problem. He originally bought his for the same reason. Like au also said, my current suspension works fine and doesn't leak a bit when pumping with a standard pump, but I've had 2 shocks and 1 fork in my many bikes have a substantial air loss problem. It's real, trust me

pikeman65

Sorry for the late reply guys, firstly a massive thanks for all the replies and thanks for taking the time and writing such in depth information it’s very much appreciated.

Sean

The Rookie

The valve closes on position not time, I can unscrew my pumps slowly or quickly, makes no odds, so while I understand the concept of unscrew in time, it has no meaningful application to what we are discussing, hence you can’t ‘unscrew in time’ or not.

pikeman65

In the end I bought a Kamasa Shock pump, I've got some of their tools and they've been great so I hope this pump is as good, I hope it doesn't suffer with the problems some of you guys have suffered with your pumps, fingers crossed.

Sean.

spangoolies

The Rookie wrote:

The valve closes on position not time, I can unscrew my pumps slowly or quickly, makes no odds, so while I understand the concept of unscrew in time, it has no meaningful application to what we are discussing, hence you can’t ‘unscrew in time’ or not.

I must have been imagining the whole thing. Thanks for clearing that up.
Wasn't air that was running out of the shock as I was removing the pump but rather the 'spirit' of the shock and it didn't change shape and deflate in front of me, it was all an illusion built into the shock by the pump companies to make me think of buying ridiculous invention that cured the problem I wasn't having. Damn supernatural suspension. And there was me thinking it was something plausible and simple like a spacing issue where the pin in the pump was still depressing the schrader valve after a few turns on removal and the seal on the pump was no longer engaged on the shock there fore no longer an air tight situation allowing the air from the shock to fully exit until the pump was unscrewed far enough to disengage the schrader valve. Possibly the thread bore on the shock not being deep enough on manufacturing allowing the valve to sit higher possibly. Damn stupid topeak inventing a pump valve that allows you to fully disengage the valve under a full air tight environment before releasing the pump from the shock. But no, your right, you haven't experienced this so couldn't possibly happen. Phantom suspension has to be the answer. All those poor people out there suffering like I did from haunted suspension. I'll consider advice from ghostbusters next time

steve_sordy

You are not imagining it spangoolies. It is a real issue. I have no idea how rare it is, but I have only had six bikes with a shock (Giant Anthem, Kona Dawg, Norco Sight, YT Capra, Whyte T130, Focus Jam2) and I have had this problem twice, Once on the Norco, fixed with a new valve and now on a recent purchase of the Focus. I have temporarily solved that by over pressurising and then measuring the sag. That can wait for a fix until I get back to the LBS.

I too tried uncoupling the shock pump as fast as possible to try to limit the air loss, ie trying to do it "in time" to stop the problem. It never worked well enough, but doing it slowly made it worse. The LBS told me that the pin in the middle of the valve was too long, so it held the valve open for longer when the shock pump was being removed.

spangoolies

steve_sordy wrote:

You are not imagining it spangoolies. It is a real issue. I have no idea how rare it is, but I have only had six bikes with a shock (Giant Anthem, Kona Dawg, Norco Sight, YT Capra, Whyte T130, Focus Jam2) and I have had this problem twice, Once on the Norco, fixed with a new valve and now on a recent purchase of the Focus. I have temporarily solved that by over pressurising and then measuring the sag. That can wait for a fix until I get back to the LBS.

I too tried uncoupling the shock pump as fast as possible to try to limit the air loss, ie trying to do it "in time" to stop the problem. It never worked well enough, but doing it slowly made it worse. The LBS told me that the pin in the middle of the valve was too long, so it held the valve open for longer when the shock pump was being removed.

Thankyou. I was starting to worry I might have had to contact the church to exorcise my bikes if they ever have this impossible unreal mythical problem(that isn't a problem as it's not possible) I tried changing the valves in the shock but didn't work for me. I genuinely think the thread bore for the valve in the fork/shock wasn't machined deep enough so the valve pin sat too high resulting in it still being depressed after the seal on the pump was no longer in contact during removal. Glad I'm not going crazy so thanks again
P.s, get yourself a topeak anti air loss pump, they are the bollocks and you will never have this non possible mythical problem that isn't a problem again!

Vino'sGhost

just trim the valve pin or replace. problem sorted 2mins. mythical or otherwise No need to invoke the spirit of christmas past.

The Rookie

So one was a proven faulty valve, the other we don’t know fix the issue not the symptom!