Why do so few people race?

redvision

Aberdeen_lune wrote:

£15-20 for a race is not expensive.

A single race no. But when you want a season of racing, and include travel expenses and insurance it gets expensive.

Aberdeen_lune wrote:

Most races are not put on for profit

Don't think anyone has suggested they are, just that the fees are relatively high for individuals to afford across the season. The main point being BC should be doing more to support local organisers, and reduce the cost of both staging and of entering a race.

imposter2.0

ugo.santalucia wrote:

pastryboy wrote:

Given the number of 'keen' cyclists who put a lot of time and money into the hobby, why do you think so few people give racing a try?

I'm thinking crit/road racing in the main. I know last year a lot of races in my area struggled to muster enough entries.

Fear of crashing, fear of getting dropped, time/cost of getting to races, simply not interested?

Possibly because they realise that at 45 they won't make it in the PRO tour and they will be confined to race at Hillingdon circuit, which is a dump?

That's a somewhat myopic view there, ugo...

imposter2.0

redvision wrote:

A single race no. But when you want a season of racing, and include travel expenses and insurance it gets expensive.

Some people do a 'season' of sportives for significantly more cost than that.

redvision wrote:

Don't think anyone has suggested they are, just that the fees are relatively high for individuals to afford across the season. The main point being BC should be doing more to support local organisers, and reduce the cost of both staging and of entering a race.

Not sure what else you think BC should be doing? Insurance and policing costs are the main reason for higher road entry fees over the last few years - not necessarily for any genuine safety concerns, but more because of the increasingly litigious society which we now live in.

DeVlaeminck

I think for most it's fear of crashing and fitness. The last 3 races I did ended with people being taken away in ambulances and one of these races had to be abandoned as people were still being treated on the road next lap - it was a 13 mile lap too. In between those one race I entered but didn't make had a fatality. I would race again if I got the fitness but probably only LVRC.

OnTheRopes

@ Imposter - Organising a race is difficult and the police are less than helpful in some areas. BC could be helping smooth the way for organsers to get their races accepted, so many traffic lights now that many circuits have gone. Derbyshire won't allow right turns whatsoever, not even in the neutralised zone. Races like Tour of the Peak would be very difficult to put on nowadays for amateurs. BC could help fund the supply of a police outrider and also help raise the profile of grass roots racing perhaps?

joe2008

Imposter wrote:

redvision wrote:

A single race no. But when you want a season of racing, and include travel expenses and insurance it gets expensive.

Some people do a 'season' of sportives for significantly more cost than that.

I haven't ridden a sportive in years, but from what I remember they were generally ridden over a continuous loop of undulating roads in an area of outstanding natural beauty, where as most races are held over a number of short laps of some godforsaken A road.

OnTheRopes

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I think for most it's fear of crashing and fitness. The last 3 races I did ended with people being taken away in ambulances and one of these races had to be abandoned as people were still being treated on the road next lap - it was a 13 mile lap too. In between those one race I entered but didn't make had a fatality. I would race again if I got the fitness but probably only LVRC.

I only race LVRC these days and yes they do seem much safer with a good level of experience in the bunch.
The worst races I have seen for crashes have been lower category events on short closed circuits, I always avoided such courses sticking to proper road circuits. Inexperienced riders in a tight bunch on a short circuit with lots of corners seems a recipe for disaster to me.

OnTheRopes

joe2008 wrote:

Imposter wrote:

redvision wrote:

A single race no. But when you want a season of racing, and include travel expenses and insurance it gets expensive.

Some people do a 'season' of sportives for significantly more cost than that.

I haven't ridden a sportive in years, but from what I remember they were generally ridden over a continuous loop of undulating roads in an area of outstanding natural beauty, where as most races are held over a number of short laps of some godforsaken A road.

Well that's because you aren't usually too interested in the scenery in a race

svetty

As a competitive sport, cycle racing has a higher bar to entry than many others. Local Badminton leagues, Golf, Squash leagues etc etc can be played competitively at a comparatively low level and anyone with the drive and enthusiasm can compete with someone at a similar standard. To be competitive at even 3rd/4th Cat you need to be a pretty strong cyclist - especially once you're into your 40s and above. Thus the 'pool' of potential racers is fairly small before the other factors - fear of crashes, cost etc comes in. Also other more skill based sports mean that accumulated experience and nous means you can remain at a comparatively high standard as your physical abilities start to wane. This does hold for cycling but to a lesser degree.

imposter2.0

OnTheRopes wrote:

@ Imposter - Organising a race is difficult and the police are less than helpful in some areas. BC could be helping smooth the way for organsers to get their races accepted, so many traffic lights now that many circuits have gone. Derbyshire won't allow right turns whatsoever, not even in the neutralised zone. Races like Tour of the Peak would be very difficult to put on nowadays for amateurs. BC could help fund the supply of a police outrider and also help raise the profile of grass roots racing perhaps?

Agree that police can sometimes be less than helpful, but it does vary from force to force. Which is why groups like the NEG are so important - the more places that NEG are accepted, the less need there is for police outriders.

imposter2.0

OnTheRopes wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

Imposter wrote:

redvision wrote:

A single race no. But when you want a season of racing, and include travel expenses and insurance it gets expensive.

Some people do a 'season' of sportives for significantly more cost than that.

I haven't ridden a sportive in years, but from what I remember they were generally ridden over a continuous loop of undulating roads in an area of outstanding natural beauty, where as most races are held over a number of short laps of some godforsaken A road.

Well that's because you aren't usually too interested in the scenery in a race

Agreed - local scenery was not usually my first priority when entering a race...

Vino'sGhost

Imposter wrote:

OnTheRopes wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

Imposter wrote:

redvision wrote:

A single race no. But when you want a season of racing, and include travel expenses and insurance it gets expensive.

Some people do a 'season' of sportives for significantly more cost than that.

I haven't ridden a sportive in years, but from what I remember they were generally ridden over a continuous loop of undulating roads in an area of outstanding natural beauty, where as most races are held over a number of short laps of some godforsaken A road.

Well that's because you aren't usually too interested in the scenery in a race

Agreed - local scenery was not usually my first priority when entering a race...

local hills were a definite consideration in mine. i.e. any scenic hilly routes were def not for me lololol

timothyw

To me it all feels a little counterproductive, in as much as, you start at Cat4, work your arse off to get to a level where you place top ten in a few races, then potentially before you've even managed to podium, you have to move up to Cat 3.

You now face another harsh adjustment to racing against stronger riders, and again, have to work your arse off just to place.

Once you do get to a competitive level in cat 3, you are now faced with the fresh dilemma of whether you press on and get to cat 2 - a level which some of your clubmates simply won't be able to reach, so you are more likely to be riding alone or needing to change team - and you will be finding yourself as an also-ran again.

I mean, compared to sprinting for the village sign, dropping your clubmates on the big climbs, it's a lot of hard work and there will only be so much pay off in terms of results.


I also have to be somewhat realistic about my own prospects - I am of an extremely heavy build (the only cat 2 racer in our club is half my weight) so I can only really be competitive on flat courses.

Then there is the question of timing - giving I mainly cycle to and from work I'm usually far from fresh legged for Saturday morning crits, and weekday evenings it can be hard enough just getting my son into bed and myself fed after a long day.

Anyhow, I'm obviously a glutton for punishment as I've bought myself a track bike and will be entering the local outdoor track league this summer (500m velodrome at Welwyn) which will hopefully suit my build more, and is a lot easier for me to get to than Hillingdon.

shamrock134

I tried a season of racing last year. I managed to get to Cat3 after 7 races but haven't renewed my race licence for this year. In 6 of the 8 crits I raced there were crashes with one resulting in a spinal injury for one poor guy.

I really enjoy the competitive aspect of cycling but I don't perceive much value in risking my body and bike for £15-20 a race. I'll probably look at doing more TTs this year since the risk of crashing is lower and depends on your handling more than some chopper in the bunch.

That said, I'd like to try an actual road race which is open to Cat3 to see how it compares to a crit.

cougie

Been there and done that when younger. It's fun but also very time consuming. Nowadays I prefer just riding my bike.

joe2008

Imposter wrote:

OnTheRopes wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

Imposter wrote:

redvision wrote:

A single race no. But when you want a season of racing, and include travel expenses and insurance it gets expensive.

Some people do a 'season' of sportives for significantly more cost than that.

I haven't ridden a sportive in years, but from what I remember they were generally ridden over a continuous loop of undulating roads in an area of outstanding natural beauty, where as most races are held over a number of short laps of some godforsaken A road.

Well that's because you aren't usually too interested in the scenery in a race

Agreed - local scenery was not usually my first priority when entering a race...

I'm sure it's not, but I was referring to why people might be willing to pay more to do a 'season of sportives'.

thegreatdivide

cougie wrote:

Been there and done that when younger. It's fun but also very time consuming. Nowadays I prefer just riding my bike.

What he said.

OnTheRopes

shamrock134 wrote:

I tried a season of racing last year. I managed to get to Cat3 after 7 races but haven't renewed my race licence for this year. In 6 of the 8 crits I raced there were crashes with one resulting in a spinal injury for one poor guy.

I really enjoy the competitive aspect of cycling but I don't perceive much value in risking my body and bike for £15-20 a race. I'll probably look at doing more TTs this year since the risk of crashing is lower and depends on your handling more than some chopper in the bunch.

That said, I'd like to try an actual road race which is open to Cat3 to see how it compares to a crit.

It's very different, less crashes and more interesting racing in my opinion though crits are great if that is your strength I guess, give it a try but try and avoid the race track road races which are not much more than a crit and can be just as dangerous with inexperienced riders

OnTheRopes

cougie wrote:

Been there and done that when younger. It's fun but also very time consuming. Nowadays I prefer just riding my bike.

It is very time consuming if you aim to be competitive which is why I tend to swing in and out of the sport

keef66

I've never really come across bike racing beyond watching it on the telly, probably because I've never joined a club. THB I've never fancied it because I've never been a particularly strong or fast rider, and feared I'd just end up finishing last or bailing completely. Even on the odd sportive I seem to spend the entire ride being overtaken, which is quite demoralising.

Darts or Scrabble is when my competitive streak emerges!

OnTheRopes

Imposter wrote:

OnTheRopes wrote:

@ Imposter - Organising a race is difficult and the police are less than helpful in some areas. BC could be helping smooth the way for organsers to get their races accepted, so many traffic lights now that many circuits have gone. Derbyshire won't allow right turns whatsoever, not even in the neutralised zone. Races like Tour of the Peak would be very difficult to put on nowadays for amateurs. BC could help fund the supply of a police outrider and also help raise the profile of grass roots racing perhaps?

Agree that police can sometimes be less than helpful, but it does vary from force to force. Which is why groups like the NEG are so important - the more places that NEG are accepted, the less need there is for police outriders.

LVRC have now made using outriders compulsory for all road races. They do a great job in making the race safer, There are quite a few similar escort groups out there.

thistle_

+2 for cost
+1 for the other riders
+1 for getting up early/taking up most of the day

I used to do the MTB marathons, but over 2-3 years the cost went from £20 to just shy of £40 with fewer marshals, less signage and food stops turning into water stops if you were lucky so packed it in. They always advertised riding on non public routes but often it was 1 or 2 miles on a 50 mile route so you could just do it yourself for free anytime.

I tried a couple of the BC XC races but they were pretty expensive, not much fun and piss poor organised.

I tried circuit racing, but £25 for 30 mins of riding with a bunch of unfriendly people who think they should be in the tdf but are slow af put me off that.

I've got into time trialling which is ok: weekly club ones are only £3 a go (now £4), although it adds up if you do it every week. The open events are ok, but still see you getting up at 4am sometimes only for a 10-25 mile ride. Charging £15 for a 10 is taking the wee wee a bit especially when there's no food/drink on offer and it's all done by volunteers.

Pross

My thoughts, I raced a lot in the 90s and crashes were rare. It was easier to get into races and they were easier to organise so there were more of them. There were often usually 2 races (a 3rd / Junior and a 1/2/3 cat) meaning newcomers got a chance to race over shorter distances in a race that may be easier (not always as juniors included all levels including internationals). Cycling was far less common but other than CTC types it felt like everyone who cycled did some racing.

After a 12 year break I tried to get back into it. Racing on the roads had dried up quite significantly and the bulk of the 'road racing' calendar was run on sterile purpose built circuits, even the majority of crits that used to be run on town centre circuits had disappeared. The overall fitness of those riding was better which had the negative impact that people new to the sport could hang in on races but didn't necessarily have the group riding and bike handling skills to match and it went from seeing a crash in every third or fourth race when I first raced to seeing at least one in pretty much every race. The final straw for me was being involved in a race where a rider died after riding into an oncoming vehicle then turning up at a race a couple of weeks later to see many of the riders that witnessed it happening still overtaking on the wrong side of the road with cars and even lorries coming towards them. That race ended up having 4 or 5 crashes in it, I got taken down hard in the first one and afterwards decided I couldn't afford the risk of losing my income for a few weeks or longer but that there was a fair chance it would happen as there were a good few riders who didn't seem to value their own safety let alone anyone else's. I did one more race after that, a vets only that was a bit more sensible, but just no longer enjoyed it.

Cost may play a part but as pointed out by others there are plenty who will ride a sportive at 3-4 times the cost of a race (or will run a marathon / half marathon at £35 - £60 a time). Despite what some may think the cost of racing isn't that high when you take into account all the costs of running one.

I think the other issue is that there are a lot of people who have come into cycling and like to act like a pro getting Strava KoMs with massive tailwinds or racing on Zwift but know that they will get a hammering if they actually go head to head with serious racers so would rather just go around trying to look big by sprinting past commuters and leisure cyclists.

Pross

Imposter wrote:

craker wrote:

Strikes me that in a running event your aim is to get the best time you can.

If it's a 'race' then the objective will be the same as a cycle race - ie to cross the line first. If it isn't a race, then it's a 'fun run' - for which a sportive would be the cycling equivalent..

Not really, running doubles up as a massed race and a time trial effectively. Most of us will never win a half marathon but will be running as hard as possible to get a PB - it certainly doesn't feel like a fun run. When you race regularly you get to know those of a similar ability and you'll race to try to get the better of them. It would be like saying a cyclist doing a time trial who has no chance of reaching the podium (i.e. pretty much all of us) is really just doing a sportive.

Judging by the time differential I may well be regularly 'racing' craker!

Ben6899

Playing football for several years has been my fill of competitive sport. From the run of the mill blisters and bruised toenails to torn ligaments, tendinitis, chipped teeth, broken nose, limping everywhere for weeks at a time... its nice to cruise about and not jostle for position in an amateur crit while doing ~45kph.

That's why I don't race. I've had enough.

Moonbiker

You lot should try fell running.

Races usually less than £5 to enter & often free cakes & soup, and you don't have much regulations apart from ocassional kit checks. Anyone can just turn up & enter on the day, but often very low numbers for some races & I think just like cycle racing numbers are decreasing....

Simialar to club cycling/racing its an aging demographic.

Whilst commercial trail running events that go along often boring tracks as routes cost £35 plus & get 1000's of entries.

imposter2.0

Pross wrote:

Imposter wrote:

craker wrote:

Strikes me that in a running event your aim is to get the best time you can.

If it's a 'race' then the objective will be the same as a cycle race - ie to cross the line first. If it isn't a race, then it's a 'fun run' - for which a sportive would be the cycling equivalent..

Not really, running doubles up as a massed race and a time trial effectively. Most of us will never win a half marathon but will be running as hard as possible to get a PB - it certainly doesn't feel like a fun run. When you race regularly you get to know those of a similar ability and you'll race to try to get the better of them. It would be like saying a cyclist doing a time trial who has no chance of reaching the podium (i.e. pretty much all of us) is really just doing a sportive.

Judging by the time differential I may well be regularly 'racing' craker!

Point taken, I think. Just disputing, I suppose, that the objective of 'racing' is to log a good time. Certainly true of TTs, but not of bunch racing.

Pross

Moonbiker wrote:

You lot should try fell running.

Races usually less than £5 to enter & often free cakes & soup, and you don't have much regulations apart from ocassional kit checks. Anyone can just turn up & enter on the day, but often very low numbers for some races & I think just like cycle racing numbers are decreasing....

Simialar to club cycling/racing its an aging demographic.

Whilst commercial trail running events that go along often boring tracks as routes cost £35 plus & get 1000's of entries.

I've recently started. Did one last week £6 entry and that included sausage and chips in the pub afterwards and a bobble hat. Did my first one before Christmas and that was £5 which gave you beer and chips when you finished. I'm terrible at the uphills and not great coming down compared to the experienced runners but manage to gain a few places. Got more planned including a possible this Sunday and a 15 miler in March.

nicklong

I race a bit but with most of the above. I did 3 seasons racing UFOLEP in France some years back (somewhere between BC and TLI) and there would be between 80 to 180 racers across 2 to 4 separate category races on the season course, either at the same time with their own outriders and safety cars or split, first race at 2pm and next at 4pm.

The atmosphere was relaxed, the roads were always closed to oncoming traffic, the quality of riding was high and because it was so accessible the lower categories weren't crazily fast.

When I moved back to the UK I noticed,

A) races were a lot more aggressive
they were a lot shorter
C) they were a lot less tactical (probably because of the shorter length)
D) they got booked up ages in advance
E) they were more expensive
F) oncoming traffic wtf

I've gone from 25 races a season to maybe 6 or 7. I'm still competitive though, the time trial and CX scene is really good in Shropshire and the West Midlands has a similar volunteer vibe as what I experienced in France.

The main thing which puts me off road racing is the oncoming traffic and the riders who ride into traffic just to move up the pack.

Cheshire Cat

Because...many folk feel threatened at the thought of exposing their weakness, rather than just giving it a go and embracing the challenge. Easier to hide in the garage playing zwift. The best introduction to racing is via the TLI, where you race against aged related peers, for very little cost.