Which groupset

andyh01

Looking at the Mason Bokeh as a do it all adventure bike/commuter. As standard options are SRAM or Shimano was looking at Ultegra 8020 mechanical disc, however was looking at self build and no one seems to have 8020 in 170 semi compact in black in stock so started looking at compy chorus, then 12 speed Record for £1500 which would go well with the Italian frameset.
Never used it is the thumb shift any good?
Is the 12 speed worth it?
Is campy suitable for off road/fat bike or for more racing?
I've also seen the Rotor hydraulic gear shifting which looks interesting.
Which group set to go for..?

Midlands Grimpeur

Just purely from personal experience I wouldn't use campy on an off road bike. Having used various campy groupsets over the years I have found that as soon as it gets a little bit dirty the shifting gets affected quite easily (mis-shifts in particular on the rear cogs). I use sram on my gravel bike, still shifts accurately when pretty muddy, as does shimano 105 which i had on an old cyclocross bike. Others may well have had different experiences though.

andyh01

Appreciate that thanks. Yes bike will get dirty and as much as I say I'll clean each night after a week or so I won't. So needs be hard wearing and work.

neeb

Midlands Grimpeur wrote:

Just purely from personal experience I wouldn't use campy on an off road bike. Having used various campy groupsets over the years I have found that as soon as it gets a little bit dirty the shifting gets affected quite easily (mis-shifts in particular on the rear cogs). I use sram on my gravel bike, still shifts accurately when pretty muddy, as does shimano 105 which i had on an old cyclocross bike. Others may well have had different experiences though.

I think it's better than it used to be in that respect - there was a time when the RD spring on Campagnolo was quite gentle, which made for easier shifting when well set up but did mean that it was quite sensitive to cable routing and dirt. The springs in the last few years have been stronger I think though (since the 2014 upfate at least), and I think it's a bit less sensitive.

andyh01

Tbh the thumb shift puts me off a bit, although I don't particularly like the sidewides movement on the brake lever you sometimes get with Shimano.

ajkerr73

Buy 8020 in 172.5mm crank from ProBike for £750 and pick up a new second hand 170mm crank set and sell the 172.5 for similar.

andyh01

Tbh I'm sure 172.5 be fine anyway, having looked on probikekit either colour (I want black) front crank wrong ratio (want semi compact I think) rear cassette (11-28) and/or stupid crank length.
For easy gonna just buy complete built bike

kirkee

If the shifting is poor its probably not set up correctly, Campag if set up well it's as good as any other makes or better. If buying Campag for a new bike build, it's more expensive generally and wheel choices can be less than if you were running Shimano. If you want Campag go for it while accepting the possible higher over all costs, less easy maintenance and compatibility restrictions.
Agreed, far easier and better value to buy a complete bike...not much on offer with Campagnolo though.

andyh01

My brief thoughts were it'll be cheaper to buy individual bits and self build with Shimano then complete bike if could get a decent discount on the groupset as
Frameset £1150 (frame, fork, headset)
Ultegra £750
Hunt wheels £350
Finishing kit £500
Total under £3k
Full bike £3100
However as couldn't find ultegra in stock at the cheapest prices I started looking at other groupset (are Shimano bringing out another update or something?)
As an Italian frame I looked at compy chorus with an extra gear but at £1500 getting a bit much as a commuter (mainly)
In the end for ease and stock issues just bit Ng the full bike as standard pre built
Just ordering an extra set of Hunt wheels and upgrading the bars to 3T carbon, with a view to eventually match the stem and post with 3T too.

akh

I've been considering a Mason and also looked at building it up myself as you've considered. The Mason frames are very nice, I saw them at the cycle show this year and all the staff on the stall seemed friendly and helpful.

Ultegra isn't due a replacement for a couple of years yet, so I don't think it's that. Since release the hydraulic groupsets have had crap availability, and the prices are extortionate compared to mechanical. I assume Mason are such a small volume buyer, they probably aren't getting a significant discount from the wholesaler, what they're paying for the groupset and finishing kit might be about what you or I would pay on Wiggle, and they have to charge labour and VAT on the finished product.

If the discounts on complete bikes were better, or hydraulic groupsets cheaper, I'd order a Mason. Sadly I'm learning towards something like a ROSE backroad. For the price of the Mason with mechanical, I could get Di2 and also customise the groupset so all rations, crank length, etc were exactly what I wanted as delivered. I know the Mason is a quite different bike, but that's just my thinking.

andyh01

In a moment of madness, I've put a significant deposit down on a Mason Bokeh, they've got the colour/size frame that I need. As they are built to order, you can specify the gears/wheels.
I've personally opted for a semi compact 11-28 and a second set of 650b wheels with 11-34 cassette.
I've also got them to add a clutched rear derailleur.
According to their machanic this will work.
As my listing above I don't think there is that much in it whether individual brought or brought as full bike. It depends how much discount you can get on group set or move stuff like very from one bike to the new.

I know they'll only 'buy back' wheels for £150 as I was looking to move away from the Hunts but apparently they're decent.

I also splashed out on 3T carbon gravel bars, I could buy for £202 on chain reaction in 44 width but been 'charged' £270 Inc fitting, I also get the original Dida bars. My plan was to then source a 3t stem and car on post but might just 'absorb" the additional cost in the "balance' depending how much extra they want to charge.

I didn't know Mason now also have a retailer bike Trek in lake District, they can't discount the bike either but might be able to do a package. Although they wanted to charge over £5k for additional wheelset, Inc rotors cassette and tyres their £150 frame wrapping service and accessories Inc lights. I've got the whole lot for just over £4k bar the protective tape as a diy. Job.

andyh01

In a moment of madness, I've put a significant deposit down on a Mason Bokeh, they've got the colour/size frame that I need. As they are built to order, you can specify the gears/wheels.
I've personally opted for a semi compact 11-28 and a second set of 650b wheels with 11-34 cassette.
I've also got them to add a clutched rear derailleur.
According to their machanic this will work.
As my listing above I don't think there is that much in it whether individual brought or brought as full bike. It depends how much discount you can get on group set or move stuff over from one bike to the new.

I know they'll only 'buy back' wheels for £150 as I was looking to move away from the Hunts but apparently they're decent.

I also splashed out on 3T carbon gravel bars, I could buy for £202 on chain reaction in 44 width but been 'charged' £270 Inc fitting, I also get the original Dida bars. My plan was to then source a 3t stem and carbon post but might just 'absorb" the additional cost in the "balance' depending how much extra they want to charge.

I didn't know Mason now also have a retailer bike Trek in lake District, they can't discount the bike either but might be able to do a package. Although they wanted to charge over £5k for additional wheelset, Inc rotors cassette and tyres their £150 frame wrapping service and accessories Inc lights. I've got the whole lot for just over £4k bar the protective tape as a diy. Job.

Tiesetrotter

The Campag option is fine. Used it in all sorts of shit with no issues. This idea it is more delicate is rubbish. You basically have two options in 11 speed
Chorus/R/SR -
#Button with three gear shifts up
#Inner shifter with 5 shifts down
Potenza/Centaur
#Button shifter with one gear
#Inner shifter with 3 shifts down

My view on running both is that.
1. Campag has faster more flexible shifting because of the button i.e. you can hit the button a lot quicker than throwing and releasing a lever
2. You don't get miss-shifts with Campag because of the button lever(although with the top end button you can over change i.e. do three rather than one change)
3. The Campag hoods are much better designed for your hands.
4. Shimano is a bit cheaper, about 20% for a groupset
5. Shimano is a hell of a lot cheaper for electric
6. Shimano parts are a hell of a lot cheaper and more available
7. It's easier to change Shimano on the drops

Take the money out of it. Campag is marginally better for off-road because of the separation of gear changing.

cycleclinic

the bokeh is disc brake and shorus is for rim brakes. TRP spyres or Hy-rd work with shimano cable pull not campagnolo.

Potenza disc brake is the best campagnolo solution but its pricey.

I bought a 8020 groupset yesterday for a customer with 170mm cranks. Try talking to a real shop, plenty about.

ugo.santalucia

Fitting Campagnolo to an Italian frame is a ritish thing... you won't find many in Italy who care about such nonsense. There is among some old timers an affection to Campagnolo, but that is fading rapidly, given how slow Campagnolo is to catch up with innovation and how ultimately their product is no longer the best you can buy.

I see no reason to go Campagnolo on a disc bike.
Why do you want mechanical discs by the way? I've tried the lot and none of them really ticks all the boxes... the best I've had are those Juin Tech R1 semi-hydraulic

pilot_pete

I’ve just bought the new 105 hydraulic disc groupset for my winter bike. All in £600 and if you read the reviews they rave about it being almost as good as Ultegra/ Dura Ace in operation. I have Dura Ace 9070 (with STR785 levers/ callipers) and 9170 di2 hydraulic disc groupsets on my summer bikes.

Now, you can’t really compare them, as the di2 is in a whole different league, but the 105 levers feel almost the same in the hand as the 9170. The cable shifting is crisp and fast both front and rear. The brakes are almost identical, the only real difference is that the 105 levers don’t have all the adjustments of the Dura Ace. All in all, the performance of the 105 is fantastic at that price point compared to the top end gear - the only penalty really is a bit of added weight, but even that has come down and it’s really not discernible.

Hope this helps

PP