The High Street

pblakeney

I went for a walk down the High Street today. Boy has it changed!
Just how often do women get their nails done, or men get a haircut? :shock: :shock: :shock:

norvernrob

PBlakeney wrote:

I went for a walk down the High Street today. Boy has it changed!
Just how often do women get their nails done, or men get a haircut? :shock: :shock: :shock:

Apparently nail salons/hairdressers are a popular method of money laundering.

barongreenback

Stores need to offer an experience. Apple started the trend, Games Workshop are doing good things getting people in and Game are going for the online gaming market. Just takes innovation. Pure product based selling will ultimately fail.

proto

barongreenback wrote:

Stores need to offer an experience. Apple started the trend, Games Workshop are doing good things getting people in and Game are going for the online gaming market. Just takes innovation. Pure product based selling will ultimately fail.

I don’t agree with this at all. Shops need to offer products that the public needs or wants, at prices they want to pay., in an environment they enjoy. Simple as that.

Retailing in the High Street should be the simplest of things. The shopkeeper buys in products adds a bit on and sells them at a profit. The problem they have is the level of rent and business rates consumes all their profits and more. It’s been a deliberate policy to destroy the High St and build retail parks. They are still doing it. So this is what needs addressing.

If town councils want a thriving High St they needs to reduce or remove business rates completely, and landlords need to reduce rents. Mike Ashley understands this perfectly. The councils could make up some of the financial loss in this by making the retail parks pay more. The internet is never going to go away but the High Street could thrive on small grocers, greengrocers, clothes shops, chemists, butchers, cafes and even bike shops, but they need lots of help. The government and councils don’t care enough to fix it.

cookeeemonster

proto wrote:

barongreenback wrote:

Stores need to offer an experience. Apple started the trend, Games Workshop are doing good things getting people in and Game are going for the online gaming market. Just takes innovation. Pure product based selling will ultimately fail.

I don’t agree with this at all. Shops need to offer products that the public needs or wants, at prices they want to pay., in an environment they enjoy. Simple as that.

Retailing in the High Street should be the simplest of things. The shopkeeper buys in products adds a bit on and sells them at a profit. The problem they have is the level of rent and business rates consumes all their profits and more. It’s been a deliberate policy to destroy the High St and build retail parks. They are still doing it. So this is what needs addressing.

If town councils want a thriving High St they needs to reduce or remove business rates completely, and landlords need to reduce rents. Mike Ashley understands this perfectly. The councils could make up some of the financial loss in this by making the retail parks pay more. The internet is never going to go away but the High Street could thrive on small grocers, greengrocers, clothes shops, chemists, butchers, cafes and even bike shops, but they need lots of help. The government and councils don’t care enough to fix it.

Councils that have been utterly hammered by 8 years of austerity and aren't far off bankruptcy are unlikely to reduce business rates anytime soon. Short sighted maybe but they don't have the leeway to act any way differently. At some point the government may act...whether or not it'll be the right decision they make is anyone's guess. Whatever gets them votes regardless of whether it's the right thing to do no doubt.

shirley_basso

Sorry, why would concils deliberately destroy high streets and replace them with retail parks?

proto

Shirley Basso wrote:

Sorry, why would concils deliberately destroy high streets and replace them with retail parks?

You’d have to ask them, but I strongly suspect it’s got something to do with greed. Short term gains, money. They are not looking at quality of life, social fabric, community. They are looking at how they can fill their coffers. Our High Streets have no future until the government and councils decide they want to be saved. It’s really very simple.

shirley_basso

Business rates > residential rates.

Nice city centres help maintain house prices.

I don't think there is a conspiracy for deliberate destruction of high streets. More like crippling lack of funding and short sighted policy making at all levels of govn't

proto

Shirley Basso wrote:

Business rates > residential rates.

Nice city centres help maintain house prices.

I don't think there is a conspiracy for deliberate destruction of high streets. More like crippling lack of funding and short sighted policy making at all levels of govn't

I agree

thistle_

thecycleclinic wrote:

Free parking won't save the high street.

The problem is that people think it does and it's the solution to everything.

We used to have a free after 3 thing on parking, the car parks were still empty after 3 as it wasn't that popular. The council scrapped it - everyone complained.
Then they cut the cost of parking - everyone rejoiced, but the shops continued to close, then people started complaining again that it was still too expensive.

The private car parks in the town centre charge at least twice what the council ones charge, and they're always rammed full :roll:

You can legally park for free on the street in the town centre anyway if you don't mind a 5 minute walk through a nice park and the parking/loading restrictions on the road are ignored by most and not enforced anyway!

Sorry just a rant, I don't have any solutions, especially not ones involving free parking.

awavey

CookeeeMonster wrote:

Councils that have been utterly hammered by 8 years of austerity and aren't far off bankruptcy are unlikely to reduce business rates anytime soon. Short sighted maybe but they don't have the leeway to act any way differently. At some point the government may act...whether or not it'll be the right decision they make is anyone's guess. Whatever gets them votes regardless of whether it's the right thing to do no doubt.

I thought it was central government who set business rates though ? councils dont have much input into it and only retain half of it anyway, the rest goes to central government who then oddly use it to fund grants back to the local authorities.

but its set by the estimate of the open market rental value, now the theory being the open market sets the most reasonable rate, yet it doesnt quite work like that as its very easy for a business looking for a presence in a particular location, to agree a rental value in excess of the market rate, which pushes the open market rate up for everyone else as all the property landlords try to cash in., if you are a business working on thin margins, it doesnt take much of a rate rise to make a business unviable.

verylonglegs

thistle (MBNW) wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

Free parking won't save the high street.

The problem is that people think it does and it's the solution to everything.

We used to have a free after 3 thing on parking, the car parks were still empty after 3 as it wasn't that popular. The council scrapped it - everyone complained.
Then they cut the cost of parking - everyone rejoiced, but the shops continued to close, then people started complaining again that it was still too expensive.

The private car parks in the town centre charge at least twice what the council ones charge, and they're always rammed full :roll:

You can legally park for free on the street in the town centre anyway if you don't mind a 5 minute walk through a nice park and the parking/loading restrictions on the road are ignored by most and not enforced anyway!

Sorry just a rant, I don't have any solutions, especially not ones involving free parking.

Why apologise, it's a legitimate post. The local paper round here will regularly feature letters from readers banging on about free parking and it is precisely that, a past generation looking for something that isn't coming back. (I don't buy the local paper, I read it at my parents house, it's something else that belongs to that generation) I don't have kids but even I know they are buying everything online and via apps, it's the future. Fighting it is like shouting in to a gale, no one can hear you.

Moonbiker

I get everything non food from middle of lidl or the internet nowadays.

Haven't bought anything much from the high street for over a decade.

Went recently first time in a few yrs & it was like a scence from a post apocalypse film compared to what I remembered.

5 vape shops loads of phone cover shops betting shops, nail bars hairdressers & loads boarded up shops also massive increase in homeless beggars etc & obesity in traccy bottoms.

Yet there is a waitrose nearby but thoose same customers you don't see walking up the high street. Extreme class segregation.

Not any shops with anything I am interested in buying apart from, the chippy, record shop( but I don't buy vinyl anymore.) & the ethnic food shop that does bulk exotic stuff & spices etc supermarkets don't sell.

superkenners

Amazon margins are pretty low, they might dodge tax but the savings are passed on to the consumer via lower prices, so effectively they are providing you with an ability to reduce your tax burden.

LBS are nice if you need something fixed on the spot or need an emergency tube as you can't be bothered to fix the ones you have lying about, but the reality is they never have stock of what you want, nor anything like the range of the online guys. So half the time its a wasted journey. And its expensive both in terms of time, parking etc. even before you factor in the higher cost of item.

Wiggle Chain reaction seems to have pushed some prices up but there are lots of smaller online operations that give great service, quick delivery and stock things that you'd never have a hope in hell of finding before the internet.

So RIP, high street and a big cheer for progress!

navrig2

Superkenners wrote:

Amazon margins are pretty low, they might dodge tax but the savings are passed on to the consumer via lower prices, so effectively they are providing you with an ability to reduce your tax burden.

The cynic in me suggests that this will not last. In a few years when the High Street is more than decimated we might see online prices gradually rising and Amazon et al generating stupid amounts of profit........

ugo.santalucia

Navrig2 wrote:

The cynic in me suggests that this will not last. In a few years when the High Street is more than decimated we might see online prices gradually rising and Amazon et al generating stupid amounts of profit........

It remains to be seen if people will still buy... with forecasted shrinking pockets (whichever model of Brexit you want to believe) and bering in mind the vast majority of online purchases are not essential... it might well be that after the high street, they will be next in line.

Reality is that the retail sector is over-developed, whether it's high street, mall or online, there is too much stuff for sale and too many retailers

Tashman

Our LBS is closing here to move to a service only offering based at home and delivering a personal deliver & collect service. Will be happy to source parts etc and advise still on purchses as he's that kind of guy, but will be yet another gap on the street of the small town.

neeb

The general problem with the High Street from my PoV is perfectly exemplified in microcosm by bike retail. It's not so much that things are cheaper online (although that's often a factor), it's that buying online provides much greater choice and diversity than it's ever been possible to provide in the High Street, and now that we're used to that there's no going back.

25 years ago if you wanted something you had no alternative but to buy it locally, except perhaps in some limited spheres where mail order was an option, either via specialised mail-order catalogues (remember those?) or a particular advert in a magazine. You happily made do with the range of choice that was available locally because that's all there was. Now that the choice available online is so much greater, what's on offer locally is hardly ever exactly what you want. What do I buy locally these days? Groceries, toiletries, DIY stuff, underwear, the occasional nick-nack for around the home (lighting, cookware, etc - but increasingly now not even that).

I can't help feeling however that there's a need that the High Street could address that isn't being fully exploited. With a lot of stuff it's good to see before you buy. Perhaps big online retailers should see the High Street more as a showroom and less as a place where sales occur. Instead of having a limited and relatively static range of stuff on display representing whatever sells best, why not have completely different stuff on show every week, with an itinery advertised in advance? If I knew that my local Wiggle showroom was going to have the complete range of 3T stems and handlebars on show next week and the complete range of De Rosa bikes the week after that, I'd go along just to have a look. Doubtless I'd end up making a few more online purchases as a result (probably through Wiggle using the 5% discount voucher code for that item I was given when I visted the showroom to see it).

There would be coffee on sale of course. And maybe regular evening and lunchtime talks from itinerant sales reps and the occasional sponsored pro.. And the showroom wouldn't be owned/rented by Wiggle, it would probably be run by a specialist High Street showroom business that might have Wiggle there one month and a Hi-Fi shop the next.

shirley_basso

Not a bad idea!

trek_dan

neeb wrote:

with an itinery advertised in advance? If I knew that my local Wiggle showroom was going to have the complete range of 3T stems and handlebars on show next week and the complete range of De Rosa bikes the week after that, I'd go along just to have a look. Doubtless I'd end up making a few more online purchases as a result (probably through Wiggle using the 5% discount voucher code for that item I was given when I visted the showroom to see it).

MTB companies kind of already do that with demo days, it works well as you actually get to test the bike. Although purchasing a MTB is much more about how it performs rather than being all about colour, price and brand prestige like road cycling

cycleclinic

Showrooms dont make money, they dont create enough extra sales to justify the extra cost. If wigle opened showrooms there prices would go up and the model fails.

Bike shops need to evolve into workshops for repairs and give up on the showroom side. they will be more profitable. It would help if folk commuted more on the bike though. The government could help there by building a netwrok of cycle roads. it would help retail as prople could shop in town without having to drive there and try and park. That would help the high street no end. People would get fitter of time, be healthier and more productive. That increases tax revenues and reduces the helath care bill. Its kind of a win win so why the heck is it not happening. We seem to have very thick leaders who cant think slightly outside of the box.

However this is britain and we dont do sensible and anything worth while gets opposed because in the words of our MP most people are old and dont ride. Go to the netherlands its quite different there and older folk do ride quite a bit.

In fact in countiries with cycle lanes and roads you still get people comuting by car or bus e.t.c but social and errand trips get done mostly by bike. High street gains there.

neeb

Completely agree on the advantages and necessity of integrating cycling into urban transport and reducing car use, also on the general idiocy of public policy and public opinion here in the uk. About the only thing we’ve got going for us is that we’re not quite as bad as the U.S.!

Would bikeshops as repair workshops really work though? There’s really nothing on a bike you can’t do yourself if you are half capable, and as people started to use bikes more they would become more familiar with maintaining them..

As regards showrooms, my suspicion is that they *would* make money but that the benefits would be very hard to quantify and attribute. Maybe they would need to be financed mostly by the manufacturers - wiggle or whoever would need to charge manufacturers for displaying and demonstrating their products. I can’t believe that wouldn’t be worth it for the manufacturers - I’d certainly be much more inclined to buy something I’d had the chance to see and perhaps try out first hand. Also an advantage if it being bankrolled by the manufacturers would maybe be that even small local businesses could take advantage of it.

Tashman

neeb wrote:

I can't help feeling however that there's a need that the High Street could address that isn't being fully exploited. With a lot of stuff it's good to see before you buy. Perhaps big online retailers should see the High Street more as a showroom and less as a place where sales occur. Instead of having a limited and relatively static range of stuff on display representing whatever sells best, why not have completely different stuff on show every week, with an itinery advertised in advance? If I knew that my local Wiggle showroom was going to have the complete range of 3T stems and handlebars on show next week and the complete range of De Rosa bikes the week after that, I'd go along just to have a look. Doubtless I'd end up making a few more online purchases as a result (probably through Wiggle using the 5% discount voucher code for that item I was given when I visted the showroom to see it).

There would be coffee on sale of course. And maybe regular evening and lunchtime talks from itinerant sales reps and the occasional sponsored pro.. And the showroom wouldn't be owned/rented by Wiggle, it would probably be run by a specialist High Street showroom business that might have Wiggle there one month and a Hi-Fi shop the next.

Isn't this essentially the seasonla style "pop-up" shops you see in towns. I know football clubs often do this at Christmastime to boost their sales of merch and every high street surely has at least 1 Christmas shop on it currently

trek_dan

neeb wrote:

Would bikeshops as repair workshops really work though? There’s really nothing on a bike you can’t do yourself if you are half capable, and as people started to use bikes more they would become more familiar with maintaining them..

Not everyone is capable or interested though, just like fixing cars, DIY or any other service industry for that matter. I think that location would be key for convenience, otherwise bike mechanics may as well work from home.

kingstongraham

neeb wrote:

Would bikeshops as repair workshops really work though? There’s really nothing on a bike you can’t do yourself if you are half capable, and as people started to use bikes more they would become more familiar with maintaining them..

I could do my own ironing too, but I choose to pay someone else to do it.

ugo.santalucia

KingstonGraham wrote:

I could do my own ironing too, but I choose to pay someone else to do it.

only because they don't charge £ 40 an hour...

thistle_

Moonbiker wrote:

Yet there is a waitrose nearby but thoose same customers you don't see walking up the high street. Extreme class segregation.

Not class segregation but we had a new Tesco open a few years ago around the back of the high street in the town/village which killed off our high street including the Co-Op, it's pretty much a ghost town now.
Tesco claimed at the time that everyone would do their shop at Tesco then walk over to the high street shops - unlikely even if there was a way to walk between the two.

It will be interesting to see what happens when Sainsburys opens just down the road, in a much more car friendly location and near the big housing estates

chippyk

thecycleclinic wrote:

Showrooms dont make money, they dont create enough extra sales to justify the extra cost. If wigle opened showrooms there prices would go up and the model fails.

Bike shops need to evolve into workshops for repairs and give up on the showroom side. they will be more profitable. It would help if folk commuted more on the bike though. The government could help there by building a netwrok of cycle roads. it would help retail as prople could shop in town without having to drive there and try and park. That would help the high street no end. People would get fitter of time, be healthier and more productive. That increases tax revenues and reduces the helath care bill. Its kind of a win win so why the heck is it not happening. We seem to have very thick leaders who cant think slightly outside of the box.

However this is britain and we dont do sensible and anything worth while gets opposed because in the words of our MP most people are old and dont ride. Go to the netherlands its quite different there and older folk do ride quite a bit.

In fact in countiries with cycle lanes and roads you still get people comuting by car or bus e.t.c but social and errand trips get done mostly by bike. High street gains there.

Completely agree, but this country is stuck in a car mindset. You’ve only got to look earlier in this thread to see someone complain about traffic but then say there aren’t enough free parking spaces, or parking is too expensive, in towns and cities. Surely if you make parking cheaper, you encourage more cars, and therefore more traffic. And this is on a cycling forum, supposedly the converted. Say this to the non cyclist and you hear cries of what about the disabled, elderly, pregnant etc forgetting that it’s not about totally abolishing the car, simply reducing its use. Or adding a cycling lane makes congestion worse.

Until this mindset is broken you’ll never win.

I’d use stats on Type 2 diabetes, how likely you are to get a lower limb ulcer, how likely you are to lose all or part of that limb and then what your life expectancy is from there (clue, don’t bother booking a holiday more than five years away). That will scare people in to exercise. Obesity cost the UK £24bn in 2011, £10bn of that in direct costs, £9bn to type 2 which is largely avoidable. Cancer cost £9bn. That is how expensive being lazy and unfit is. The obsession with the car is partly to blame.

chris_bass

I don't know why more shops don't partner up and share stores (like pep and co and poundland, although maybe one owns the other?) that way they could share the rent and council costs but still have presence on the high street.

neeb

ChippyK wrote:

Say this to the non cyclist and you hear cries of what about the disabled, elderly, pregnant etc forgetting that it’s not about totally abolishing the car, simply reducing its use.

And of course the irony that it seems to be taboo to mention is that probably half of the disabled have acquired their disability through unhealthy lifestyle choices and about half of the elderly would probably still be active if they hadn’t had a lifetime of inactivity..