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Wilder v Fury

slowmartslowmart Posts: 4,039
edited December 2018 in The cake stop
like or loathe him Warren has steered Fury to a title shot. The cynical, with some merit, might suggest it’s about building hype to line pockets of self interest but boxing has never attracted angels.

Certainly Fury has his demons and has struggled in recent years but I’m hoping he will beat Wilder as he’s gifted boxer.
“Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

Desmond Tutu

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  • motogullmotogull Posts: 319
    Two fighters who put on a good show. I like them both for that. Anything could happen here. Hopefully not something controversial. I can see Fury winning.
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,335
    Given some of the offensive tosh Fury used to come out with about gay people and women Fury has done well to rehabilitate his image. I don't know what his real views were or are but these days I like his public persona and hope he can win this one.
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • He has or had a house near where I live. Some people I know used to see him about a lot. Tales of him and his family walking through the town and he's wearing a very long white fur coat. Very over the top but wife and kid with him. It looked pretty normal apparently. Came across as a typical gypo type that there's a lot locally. I think the comments he made about gays is just the attitudes of his peers / community. Women too is the attitude you get a lot.

    I'm not condoning it but you get boxers from shall we say lower echelons of society. Then if they're a good boxer they hit the public with the culture or attitudes of their peers back home. They're in a business where cockiness is the norm but they can't show prejudice? Well it's no wonder you get some who don't become this businessman with an eye on the right kind of promotion. It's a skill they learn. Fury didn't learn it straight away.

    Afterall boxing is a business. What the boxer behaves like is part of their business model.

    I hope he does it. Locally people were very proud of him when he beat Klitschko. Whilst he's kit from round here he has a house here and is seen going out in the area.

    Boxing quality? They've both got a lot of talent. Fury is supposed to be a better technical fighter. That's really how he beat Klitschko I think. Wilder is like his persona, a direct, in your face boxer. Who's known to come at his opponent. All but one win was a knock out I think. He has a 100% win too. Fury has fewer wins. I'm actually surprised he's decided to face wilder so early after coming back. A risk?

    I hope he wins partly because I prefer him as a fighter but also as a person.

    Whatever happens the winner really should try for an AJ fight. Wilder win and straight into AJ fight? Fury win then it's a re-match straight after putting the AJ fight back a lot. IIRC AJ is going to be even a tight turnaround in fights for Wilder because I think I read AJ had to fight very soon.

    If Fury wins it'll be a big win so soon after coming back. If he wins the rematch then I personally think he would show that he's the in form boxer to fight AJ. I suspect that AJ would beat either of these fighters at their best though. You have to realise AJ is Olympic gold medalist turned multiple pro belt holder. Wilder is a bronze Olympic medalist with one pro belt. AJ beat Klitschko who was a very intelligent boxer who held their weight category for some time. I wonder if Wilder has beaten an equivalent quality of boxer to Klitschko?
  • A puncher versus a boxer. I agree with the common wisdom that the longer the fight goes on the more it plays into Fury's hands. As ever with boxing Wilder just has to land one of his haymakers and that may be all he needs.

    If it makes it to points then Fury will win, Wilder has been behind several times in fights before knocking out his opponents. Fury will box conservatively and for points like Floyd Mayweather Jr did. Like Mayweather, Fury will try and disrupt things which mean the fight may not be the spectacle that most will hope it to be.

    If Fury wins then the eventual match versus Joshua will be the biggest boxing match ever in this country, even bigger than Cooper v Ali or Benn v Eubank.
  • robert88robert88 Posts: 2,696
    Who would turn up to watch Calmer versus Happy?
  • ProssPross Posts: 25,468
    I can't recall seeing a heavyweight going into the ring looking as unfit as Fury. He may have lost 10 stone but he still appears to be carrying some excess baggage. If he's going to win it will have to be in the first few rounds as he just doesn't look fit enough to go further.
  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 8,188
    Fury looks like a pub fighter. The build up has been embarrassing; Fury fat and matey boy in that fuck1ng mask.
    Ben

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  • What if Wilder holds back against his usual style? Fury then has to come at him. He might not have the tactics planned for that.

    It's not as simple as the boxer vs puncher. As an amateur Wilder got a bronze at the Olympics I believe. You don't get that far without the boxing skills needed to score on points too.

    Wilder has an in your face style. Fury will know that so what if Wilder goes against type? He can box out hit hard.

    Fury has lost so much weight. He said 27 stone was his starting weight. Theory says losing a lot quickly isn't good for a boxer's ability to win. However just how much hard training has he had to put in to achieve his weight loss? I suspect he's in a good condition. Isn't a big, heavy looking fighter anyway? Not a toned fighter.

    Whatever the result only a wilder win can meet the deadline for AJ's next match. Even that's tight I read. If Fury wins it's a rematch for him to also win. Then AJ but that would have to fit in with AJ's fights. He's a belt holder who I guess has to fight to a deadline fir matches. If Wilder wins he has to fight AJ within a short period of time or AJ will have to fight a nominated candidate.

    This fight is interesting. Hard to call.
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    Ben6899 wrote:
    Fury looks like a pub fighter. The build up has been embarrassing; Fury fat and matey boy in that fuck1ng mask.

    this.

    wtaf was that mask all about?
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • slowmartslowmart Posts: 4,039
    what can you say about that fight, both fighters were excellent, Fury especially so, continuing to defy most peoples expectations in and outside the ring.

    Wembley rematch? I really hope so.
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 8,188
    slowmart wrote:
    Wembley rematch? I really hope so.

    If you're sat far enough away, Fury might actually look like a boxer.
    Ben

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  • ProssPross Posts: 25,468
    Really didn't expect that. Fury must be far fitter than he looks!
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,335
    Ben6899 wrote:
    slowmart wrote:
    Wembley rematch? I really hope so.

    If you're sat far enough away, Fury might actually look like a boxer.

    At heavyweight there isn't really much of a reason to be ripped if that isn't your natural physique. I wouldn't say Fury looks particularly overweight in that weight division.
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 8,188
    Ben6899 wrote:
    slowmart wrote:
    Wembley rematch? I really hope so.

    If you're sat far enough away, Fury might actually look like a boxer.

    At heavyweight there isn't really much of a reason to be ripped if that isn't your natural physique. I wouldn't say Fury looks particularly overweight in that weight division.

    He looks overweight to me. Bear in mind that holding your arms above your head will make you look your leanest...

    tyson-fury-weigh-in.jpg
    Ben

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  • But did he perform in the ring despite not looking fit to you? End results and all that.

    Of course a little bit fitter could he have won?

    Does anyone believe that gift draw theory? The theory closely related to the one that it's harder to beat a Yank on home territory if you're not American yourself.
  • joe_totale-2joe_totale-2 Posts: 1,194
    edited December 2018
    It's boxing, not bodybuilding. James Toney was a fantastic boxer with marvellous technique but he always looked bloated.

    In the 12th round Fury got up from a punch that would have floored most people and proceeded to lay into Wilder, that suggests that his fitness was at a good level.

    The good thing for Fury is that if he looks after himself now and doesn't relapse then he'll be starting from such a higher position than last time. A lot of his training camp was focused on weight loss which won't be such a priority this time round so he can focus on technique, strategy and stamina.
  • robert88robert88 Posts: 2,696
    Does anyone believe that gift draw theory? The theory closely related to the one that it's harder to beat a Yank on home territory if you're not American yourself.

    America First.
  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 8,188
    But did he perform in the ring despite not looking fit to you? End results and all that.

    Of course a little bit fitter could he have won?

    Does anyone believe that gift draw theory? The theory closely related to the one that it's harder to beat a Yank on home territory if you're not American yourself.

    It's surely not only me that doesn't think he looks fit? And yes, a little more care and preparation and he would probably have walked away with the win (on points). However... gift theory...

    Remotely close and you're not taking the Yank on points, if you're at Staples Center(sic) or Caesar's Palace. So it probably wouldn't make a difference.
    Ben

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  • Paulie WPaulie W Posts: 1,492
    I enjoyed the fight not least because I was expecting Fury to fight a more negative fight and for it to be a very messy affair. In fact, Fury whilst boxing very effectively also stood his ground enough to make it a fight.

    I thought Fury won but can just about see how a judge could have scored it a draw - there were some tight rounds and if you swayed slightly to the aggressor then a 7-5 score in Fury's favour with two of the Wilder rounds as 10-8 is conceivable. What is not conceivable is the 115-111 score for Wilder which has him winning the first four rounds (which for me where pretty clearly Fury). But boxing is subjective plus there are lots of examples of people scoring fights quite differently based on where they were sat in the arena.

    As for the fat thing - this is Heavyweight boxing and its history is littered with less than chiselled fighters. That Fury was able to maintain a decent pace and could get up from that knockdown in round 12 and come back fighting tells you all you need to know about his fitness.
  • Losing that weight would surely get you into a fit condition, right? It's a big loss on a short time. That's through a lot of effort and work I'd have thought.
  • slowmartslowmart Posts: 4,039
    edited December 2018
    Tyson has answered any questions regarding his ring fitness. Given where Tyson has come from during the last two years is testament to his work ethic and improving mental health.

    The grace in which he accepted the decision of a draw was another mile marker in Tyson’s rehabilitation on his road to recovery and one which should be applauded.

    And previously not many people would have used Tyson and grace in the same sentence.

    He’s come an awful long way
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 8,188
    Hey just to be clear, I'm chuffed to bits to see him (someone / anyone) come through mental health issues.
    Ben

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  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    So everyone is now prepared to forget the sexist/homophobic comments now?
    .

    Just wondering for a friend.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 8,188
    So everyone is now prepared to forget the sexist/homophobic comments now?
    .

    Just wondering for a friend.

    Not at all.
    Ben

    Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
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  • slowmartslowmart Posts: 4,039
    If someone who has a history of substance abuse and mental health issues makes questionable statements I’d question the reason for reporting the comments from a visibly disturbed individual.
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • So do you know if those questionable statements were made when Fury was healthy or when he was going through mental illness crisis? Bear in mind he was suffering with depression as far back as his bout against Klitschko that made him a world champion? Do you know if those statements were part of his illness or really part of who he is?

    I suspect he will always have episodes of mental illness to battle through. However I would wait and see if he makes those statements again. If he doesn't then perhaps give him a chance to recover and redeem himself.
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,724
    edited December 2018
    It's funny how some gauge a boxer's fitness by their physique. Fury has had that kind of build before.

    Look at AJ, perfect physique, but has dipped in the middle of fights, starts blowing hard. Fury might look like a chip shop owner but he keeps moving well.

    Fury isn't the hardest punching heavyweight but he'll plug away at scoring points and he's difficult to hit, and that's the story of this fight.

    It will be interesting to see who wins the rematch, it could well go similarly unless Wilder gets lucky. I can't make up my mind who I'd rather go on to see fight AJ, the biggest box office draw would clearly be if Wilder can take out Fury and then we get to see if AJ can sort Wilder out.

    It is quite good to have a mini-saga in the heavyweight division for a moment, even if the division isn't at a high.
  • slowmartslowmart Posts: 4,039
    So do you know if those questionable statements were made when Fury was healthy or when he was going through mental illness crisis? Bear in mind he was suffering with depression as far back as his bout against Klitschko that made him a world champion? Do you know if those statements were part of his illness or really part of who he is?

    I suspect he will always have episodes of mental illness to battle through. However I would wait and see if he makes those statements again. If he doesn't then perhaps give him a chance to recover and redeem himself.


    I think it’s fair to say no one except Fury and those that know him well can reasonably answer that question. Frank Bruno has suffered from mental health problems and also turned to cocaine without the offensive comments that Fury made.
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • But our demons are our own. I doubt you can compare these things quite so simply.

    Let's see if he repeats his comments.
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