Buying advice for low end but still decent!

nbuuifx

I think I need to buy a mountain bike. I want something second hand but half decent.

I was in the same position a couple of years ago. It isn't for me but is for my wife or daughter!

I bought my wife a GT Laguna at the time and it has been great, I'm after something else like it to be honest. It has been more than capable, it has smooth enough gears and she has found it fantastic to ride.

My daughter is now catching up height wise and will probably overtake before too long! My daughter has outgrown her previous Carrera bike and a friend kindly gave her a barely used Apollo Jewel adult sized bike. I thought the Apollo would be a heavy lump with useless components. To be fair it wasn't as bad as I thought and weight wise it is ok (not like the current Apollo Jewel bikes at Halfords which weigh a ton!) But she keeps stealing the GT Laguna instead because she says it feels so much nicer to ride. Having now had a quick ride on both I can see what she means, I can't put my finger on it but everything feels a bit cheap and nasty and the geometry seems wrong (it is hard to tell as both are too small for me!) The GT however feels as good as my MTB (Boardman).

So I think I now need to get a better bike for either my daughter or my wife! I'm after second hand and want something on par or better than the GT Laguna but without spending more than £150. What I'd really like is a list of some good models which might come into that price range so that I can keep searching eBay etc. To see if I can find a bargain. Any ideas would be gratefully received! Thanks

cooldad

About a million or two. I suggest you find some and then ask for opinions.

nbuuifx

Carrera Vulcan XC disc.

Price about £80-£100 second hand.

Spec: SRAM 24 speed, mechanical discs, suntour forks, alloy frame, 26" wheels.

Reviews suggest it is weighty at 14kg but I'm not sure if it applies to this model as there have been different ones.

Any thoughts?

nbuuifx

Any comment about the above bike?

cooldad

Probably ok, but Suntour make loads of forks, some decent, some rubbish. It could be immaculate, it could be a mangled wreck.

Links to the actual bike would help more.

nbuuifx

cooldad wrote:

Probably ok, but Suntour make loads of forks, some decent, some rubbish. It could be immaculate, it could be a mangled wreck.

Links to the actual bike would help more.

Something like this one...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/carrera-vulc ... :rk:6:pf:0

2014, apparently barely ridden.

cooldad

Looks ok at around that price. Forks are a bit nasty and will weigh a ton.

Maybe at an offer of £80, but I'd look closer to your £150 limit. And find something nicer. If she's pretty small, lighter is better.

nbuuifx

Any thoughts on the GT Avalanche?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GT-Avalanche ... rk:16:pf:0

Something like that one? I realise it isn't any different price wise, but we've been happy with the GT Laguna. I realise it is a men's frame but in the small - it should be the right size and the frame isn't dissimilar to a ladies frame.


Or possibly a Specialized Hardrock.

All 3 of the bikes I've mentioned so far seem to be similar spec, similar weight, similar forks etc.

nbuuifx

How about a giant talon 27.5 4. I think it is a 2015

Suntour forks again but 27.5" wheels. 8 speed, disc brakes etc.

sparquin

It would help you if you look at a few of these adverts, take note of the specification, and look up the individual components.
With regards to Suntour forks, for example, you'll be able to tell the heavy steel items from the better regarded light aluminium ones.

Also, the Hardrock models have gone lower and lower in specification as time has gone on, while staying the same price. Older is actually better in some ways.

The Rookie

Suntour forks range from the M series (complete junk) through the XCT/XCM (Okish with hydraulic lockout, pretty poor with mechanical) to XCR (now pretty good) and Raidon and Epicon (/Epixon) which is really very good. So saying Suntour forks is meaningless.

nbuuifx

Thanks for the advice on the Suntour forks, unfortunately most listings don't specify much more than that I've seen some XCM / XCT ones but don't know if they were hydraulic or not.

cooldad

Then ask the seller.

bonzo_banana

nbuuifx wrote:

Thanks for the advice on the Suntour forks, unfortunately most listings don't specify much more than that I've seen some XCM / XCT ones but don't know if they were hydraulic or not.

I'm confused to why you need a mountain bike as it's not been mentioned how much off-road use the bike will get. Suntour forks are basic and competent entry level forks for off-road (XCT,XCM & XCR) but for most people just riding on the road and light off-road rigid forks would be better. For me one of the best bikes for all round use is the Carrera Subway. It's sold as a hybrid but takes nothing from road bikes. It's basically a fully rigid mountain bike. They are efficient on the road and still capable off-road.

Ithink when your fishing around for the best deal at £150 the brand isn't so critical it's the components you are getting that is most important. Viking are a low end brand but their top end models are pretty much equal to the low end models of better brands. You get a generic far east frame, freehub based drivetrain with 24 gears typically and a Suntour XCT or XCM fork. Not that I'm suggesting get a Viking I'm just saying I wouldn't exclude them if the components were right.

If frame quality is critical then you won't do much better than Giant. They are a rare example of a mainstream brand that actually manufactures their own bikes and their frame quality is state of the art. While many brand/importers have gone to Cambodia for frames to avoid EU duties as far as I know Giant are still manufacturing in their high quality factories in Taiwan and mainland China. They are some of the lightest frames with the highest load capacities and longest warranties when new. In my opinion a fairly low end Giant frame is often superior to those seen on mid-range to higher end bikes from brands who are basically importers and juggle far east factories depending on who can give the best price and nowadays are using lower end Cambodian factories in order to avoid EU duties. The 30% minimum locally manufactured content that the EU has put on Cambodia has basically meant the frames and rigid forks are often now made in Cambodia rather than purely assembling Chinese parts.

Some of their frames are fairly basic at the bottom end with 7005 still be used and 6061 frames sometimes that are purely air-hardened rather than properly heat treated and the frames are mechanically formed rather than hydro-formed. That is what is happening today so a bike from 2-3 years ago may actually be superior to those same models today by many brands. Much of this has been forced by the lower value of the £, EU anti-dumping duties and rising manufacturing costs in mainland China and the huge pressure of brands not to raise prices with their yearly updates and lose market share.

Saying that there is nothing actually wrong with frames manufactured in Cambodia and I've seen bikes get great reviews that I know have frames manufactured in Cambodia like the Vitus models.

nbuuifx

Thanks, most of our riding as a family is on fire track type paths for which I'm sure rigid forks would be better. However we have a local route that we often take which is very bumpy and suspension forks certainly help there.

When me and my wife get chance to go out without the kids we can pop up to the local country park which has a range of bits for different skills with drops etc. For these I personally think the suspension forks are necessary.

It isn't a great deal and the challenges won't be the biggest ever but really I need a bike that is capable of doing a mixture from trails to very light riding.

bonzo_banana

nbuuifx wrote:

Thanks, most of our riding as a family is on fire track type paths for which I'm sure rigid forks would be better. However we have a local route that we often take which is very bumpy and suspension forks certainly help there.

When me and my wife get chance to go out without the kids we can pop up to the local country park which has a range of bits for different skills with drops etc. For these I personally think the suspension forks are necessary.

It isn't a great deal and the challenges won't be the biggest ever but really I need a bike that is capable of doing a mixture from trails to very light riding.

Fair enough, that makes total sense. Just remember the order of Suntour forks, XCT is their base level cross country forks with only 28mm stanchions I believe. XCM is for me the minimum quality with 30mm stanchions and XCR is the most desirable of their entry level forks with 32mm stanchions which is what many claim should be the minimum for real off road use (32mm). Also Suntour updates their forks yearly so they keep improving them. A 2019 XCT could be better than a 2013 XCM for example. Suntour also do variations which can be better or worse within those 3 model types. An e-bike version might have thicker stanchions for example. The Suntour site now lists 2019 models so the 2018 models are now in the archive.

I see a lot of European and US brand bikes that have really compromised their entry level bikes to try to compete with shop brands etc. You get a low end mechanically formed frame from Cambodia with the low rider weight limits, XCT forks and a drivetrain that might have a Deore derailleur to look good but the rest of the drivetrain is sub Shimano or tourney for example. Sometimes you even see freewheels on such bikes which should never be fitted to a mountain bike. Such bikes often enter the secondhand market quite quickly as many of the components are barely fit for purpose and problematic. Focussing on the components rather than the brand is often the best option buying secondhand.

nbuuifx

Bonzo Banana wrote:

nbuuifx wrote:

Thanks, most of our riding as a family is on fire track type paths for which I'm sure rigid forks would be better. However we have a local route that we often take which is very bumpy and suspension forks certainly help there.

When me and my wife get chance to go out without the kids we can pop up to the local country park which has a range of bits for different skills with drops etc. For these I personally think the suspension forks are necessary.

It isn't a great deal and the challenges won't be the biggest ever but really I need a bike that is capable of doing a mixture from trails to very light riding.

Fair enough, that makes total sense. Just remember the order of Suntour forks, XCT is their base level cross country forks with only 28mm stanchions I believe. XCM is for me the minimum quality with 30mm stanchions and XCR is the most desirable of their entry level forks with 32mm stanchions which is what many claim should be the minimum for real off road use (32mm). Also Suntour updates their forks yearly so they keep improving them. A 2019 XCT could be better than a 2013 XCM for example. Suntour also do variations which can be better or worse within those 3 model types. An e-bike version might have thicker stanchions for example. The Suntour site now lists 2019 models so the 2018 models are now in the archive.

I see a lot of European and US brand bikes that have really compromised their entry level bikes to try to compete with shop brands etc. You get a low end mechanically formed frame from Cambodia with the low rider weight limits, XCT forks and a drivetrain that might have a Deore derailleur to look good but the rest of the drivetrain is sub Shimano or tourney for example. Sometimes you even see freewheels on such bikes which should never be fitted to a mountain bike. Such bikes often enter the secondhand market quite quickly as many of the components are barely fit for purpose and problematic. Focussing on the components rather than the brand is often the best option buying secondhand.

Thanks for the breakdown on the Suntour forks - that will be useful as I look through.

nbuuifx

I've seen a Specialized Rockhopper locally, just trying to confirm the size and details are extremely vague.


The seller says it has barely been used but going off the frame style I would guess at it being a 2005/2006 Ladies Frame. Rock Shox Front fork which is probably a low end J3?? Rim Brakes and the rest I'd be guessing as I can find different specs. Looks like a 3x8 or 3x9 setup.

Would that be worth getting?

I think it might be a 17" frame. The other bike we have (GT) is 16" from centre of crank to top of the tube where the seat enters, the seat is usually up about 4 or 5" from the bottom. Would a 17" frame be OK? I think my wife would fit on but it might restrict how far she can drop it down if she wants to lower it for downhill riding.

nbuuifx

Just to confirm it does have Rock Shox J3 SL Front Forks.
It has Deore Shifters
It has Rim brakes which I believe are Tektro.

Don't know anything more than that though!

bonzo_banana

nbuuifx wrote:

I've seen a Specialized Rockhopper locally, just trying to confirm the size and details are extremely vague.

https://ibb.co/NFbqtD9

The seller says it has barely been used but going off the frame style I would guess at it being a 2005/2006 Ladies Frame. Rock Shox Front fork which is probably a low end J3?? Rim Brakes and the rest I'd be guessing as I can find different specs. Looks like a 3x8 or 3x9 setup.

Would that be worth getting?

I think it might be a 17" frame. The other bike we have (GT) is 16" from centre of crank to top of the tube where the seat enters, the seat is usually up about 4 or 5" from the bottom. Would a 17" frame be OK? I think my wife would fit on but it might restrict how far she can drop it down if she wants to lower it for downhill riding.

Looks a solid decent bike and could be a bargain depending on price and you could use the V brakes to push the price down when negotiating possibly. I'm not sure if they were back then but Specialized today are part owned by Merida who are probably the second best mass producers of aluminium frames after Giant. I believe before Merida bought 49% of Specialized they were supplying them with frames anyway but not exclusively. A poorly detailed advert is where I've often got my best bike bargains as it puts off many other buyers. I've saved images from ebay just so I can zoom into images to study the components more and get a better idea of what is fitted when you get an advert that just says used mountain bike etc and not much else.

The Rookie

Yup that's a Merida era Spesh frame, geometry and weight is almost identical to the same age carrera hardtails.

nbuuifx

Thanks for all the advice. I think I will go for that one

billycool

Can't comment on the quality of the bike but I do have a 2006 Stumpjumper HT and it's a really good bike. The frames are pretty solid and a good base to swap other bits in and out.

Just be sure it's genuine, the right size and you don't have to spend £££'s replacing the drivetrain etc.

One persons `hardly used` is someone else's `good for scrap`.

nbuuifx

Thanks, it looks good and is light weight. Can trace the history back to when they bought it as a used bike from a bike shop. So as good as I can get for a used bike I guess.

3x9 on the gears.
Deore shifters and derailleurs
Shimano hollow tech cranks
I was wrong about the brakes. They are avid levers and avid calipers.
Rock Shox J3 SL La femme fork
Specialized fast track tyres

Bike fits my wife well and she says it is comfortable. The seat post sticks out a good few inches and the lowest it goes is the must right position. I'd like to be able to move it down out of the way if I was doing little drops etc. I might chop the bottom few inches off the post to allow it to drop all the way. That shouldn't cause any problems should it?