Do we need shoulder and hip protections for road cyclists?

cld531c

The shoulder pads and back hump look like they would make looking over your shoulder difficult, I wouldn't go out looking like that if they were likely to improve my safety, let alone hinder it. Sorry but cant see this one taking off (without a big gust of wind under the hump).

Matthewfalle

why has the OP not answered my question? i would have thought this would have been simple to answer.

cooldad

Matthewfalle wrote:

why has the OP not answered my question? i would have thought this would have been simple to answer.

He probably replied to one of the other random Matthewfalles.....

angry_bird

If you want crashes to test them, I'll do it, £10k per crash though.

neeb

I think it's a viable proposition for hip protection but not for shoulders. Collarbone injuries (as has been said) tend to be caused by indirect impacts and broken collarbones generally heal well and are not life-changing. I'm not aware of direct impacts to the shoulder causing broken bones as being a common issue in cycling, although correct me if I'm wrong. More often direct shoulder impacts cause ligament damage / separation - something I've suffered myself and I'm not sure that this would protect from.

Broken hips are not uncommon, a genuine hazard in road cycling and potentially life-changing however. If there was something available that was light, not too bulky, integrated with bib shorts and offered genuine protection I might be tempted.

Framtaff

Would have loved a thin one inch strip of light weave kevlar down the thigh of my bib shorts last summer. Road rash very painful experience needed antibiotics and 6 months on still scarred and loss of sensation. Getting better each day. Having a small patch of kevlar would have reduced injury and helped healing process. Can't see how it would restrict or inhibit the wearer and cost would be minimal.

Matthewfalle

Framtaff wrote:

Would have loved a thin one inch strip of light weave kevlar down the thigh of my bib shorts last summer. Road rash very painful experience needed antibiotics and 6 months on still scarred and loss of sensation. Getting better each day. Having a small patch of kevlar would have reduced injury and helped healing process. Can't see how it would restrict or inhibit the wearer and cost would be minimal.

not sure if it flexes and stretches like lycra so may just move up and down and chaff you to bits.

Pross

neeb wrote:

I think it's a viable proposition for hip protection but not for shoulders. Collarbone injuries (as has been said) tend to be caused by indirect impacts and broken collarbones generally heal well and are not life-changing. I'm not aware of direct impacts to the shoulder causing broken bones as being a common issue in cycling, although correct me if I'm wrong. More often direct shoulder impacts cause ligament damage / separation - something I've suffered myself and I'm not sure that this would protect from.

More than that, the collarbone is designed to break relatively easily as a kind of shock absorber to reduce injury in more critical areas such as a broken neck or brain trauma.

keef66

Pross wrote:

More than that, the collarbone is designed to break relatively easily as a kind of shock absorber to reduce injury in more critical areas such as a broken neck or brain trauma.

Designed?

I prefer to think that evolution has left us with a collarbone which behaves in this way.

Unless you subscribe to some Intelligent design theory? In which case there are a few things which should result in a factory recall or a firmware update...)

keezx

To be fair, I broke my RH collarbone 3 times in 3 years (same location too, no surgery) and it might have prevented worse things.....
Any kind of soft padding could not have prevented this, only a hard shell could, but at what price?

Matthewfalle

Pross wrote:

neeb wrote:

I think it's a viable proposition for hip protection but not for shoulders. Collarbone injuries (as has been said) tend to be caused by indirect impacts and broken collarbones generally heal well and are not life-changing. I'm not aware of direct impacts to the shoulder causing broken bones as being a common issue in cycling, although correct me if I'm wrong. More often direct shoulder impacts cause ligament damage / separation - something I've suffered myself and I'm not sure that this would protect from.

More than that, the collarbone is designed to break relatively easily as a kind of shock absorber to reduce injury in more critical areas such as a broken neck or brain trauma.

this - most collarbone injuries are force transferance preventing different and more eevere injuries: you don't want to be stopping these/moving the forces in different directions.

neeb

keef66 wrote:

Pross wrote:

More than that, the collarbone is designed to break relatively easily as a kind of shock absorber to reduce injury in more critical areas such as a broken neck or brain trauma.

Designed?

I prefer to think that evolution has left us with a collarbone which behaves in this way.

Unless you subscribe to some Intelligent design theory? In which case there are a few things which should result in a factory recall or a firmware update...)

I don't think he meant literally designed..

It's quite common even amongst evolutionary biologists to say that something is "designed" for a particular adaptive function. Of course that's wrong, and it isn't, but it's a convenient shorthand (as long as you aren't talking to genuine creationists! ).

Matthewfalle

what about my question?

surely the OP can confirm given he has looked into all of this.

Biciclaggio

Matthewfalle wrote:

but you haven't answered why mtb stuff won't work.

you've only said what mtb people do not why mtb stuff won't work.

MTB protections are not compatible with road bikes because:

The shoulder is protected with pads inserted in upper body vests which would cause over heating during the most important days of road riding (mid summer mountain stage).
However those vests are compatible with road riding during the middle of the winter.

The hip is protected with pads inserted in under pants which would cause over heating and power loss because of friction.
Those pants are not compatible with road riding during the middle of the winter because of friction power loss.

Additionally they weighs above 400g ????

I have bench marked a keirin armor, which is something very close to a MTB protection kit and it became immediately clear that it was not thermally acceptable and about 800g heavy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I use it in the winter and it keeps me warm.

While testing last summer I have been very happy to have sorted out the thermal compatibility (only for the 50g and 100g protos). Also the friction at the hip is probably closer to 0 Watt then 1 Watt.

Anybody continuing this project professionally can easily achieve better thermal and ergonomic compatibility. They are basically pads that you do not even feel that you are wearing them.

Biciclaggio

BTW, there is also the cramps factor.
I have benchmarked the Dainese Gait Bibs, to find out that they are a cramp machine.
Basically, the quadriceps overheat in the protector area. I have cut some vents in them and the situation improved a bit.

The MTB hip protectors would also generate those problems.

My 3 protos, all of them do not extend to the quadriceps area, which is a necessary compromise to avoid those cramps.

Biciclaggio

keef66 wrote:

Pross wrote:

More than that, the collarbone is designed to break relatively easily as a kind of shock absorber to reduce injury in more critical areas such as a broken neck or brain trauma.

Designed?

I prefer to think that evolution has left us with a collarbone which behaves in this way.

Unless you subscribe to some Intelligent design theory? In which case there are a few things which should result in a factory recall or a firmware update...)

Actually not a stupid discussion.
When I have found out that the collarbone and the scapula, and partially also the femur greater trochanter have no other functional purpose then being some sort of embedded protector, I was surprised.
That pushed me to develop because:
those features have evolved to provide one additional chance (60% of collarbone factures needs surgery, and without would heal in a separated way no longer functional) to earlier homo species falling off savanna trees into savanna soil and grass. On top of it they had fur.
So the impact was : soil+grass+ fur+ bone. I can accept that layout. Bones are OK to absorb the compressive phase of the shock. Horrible for the peak hit.
But now you are an Homo Sapiens, riding a road bike at age 60 (important evolutionary fact) falling on asphalt on a thin layer of lycra. If you are lucky enough you will experience the pleasure of the impact : asphalt+lycra+bone.
Now if you put the right layer of foam+plastic on the right places, then you go back to what those bones have evolved for:
asphalt+lycra+plastic+foam+bone.

Football players shin guards teach a lesson.

veryslowtwitch

Without a collar bone and scapula you could not move your arm. Evolution does not move fast enough to add them as shock absorbers for Cat 4 crit crashers. And ditto for your greater trochanter, it has muscles and stuff attached to it.

I don't think you'll stop fractures but you might stop some road rash. But you'd have to make a gimp suit out of kevlar cos you can get road rash anywhere.

Vino'sGhost

if you make them very expensive, assign a random improvement in Cda to the wearer you'll sell shed loads to triathletes.

They buy any kind of aero cobblers

harry-s

veryslowtwitch wrote:

I don't think you'll stop fractures but you might stop some road rash. But you'd have to make a gimp suit out of kevlar cos you can get road rash anywhere.

I'd agree with this, I can't see how a layer of plastic a few mm thick is going to cope with a dump of around 850 kgm/s, there's no way it would be able to absorb or spread enough of the load.

Matthewfalle

veryslowtwitch wrote:

Without a collar bone and scapula you could not move your arm. Evolution does not move fast enough to add them as shock absorbers for Cat 4 crit crashers. And ditto for your greater trochanter, it has muscles and stuff attached to it.

I don't think you'll stop fractures but you might stop some road rash. But you'd have to make a gimp suit out of kevlar cos you can get road rash anywhere.

did someonesay gimp suit?

now you're talking. or not, as the case may be. mumbling more like......