No more Velothon Wales

kingrollo
kingrollo Posts: 3,198
edited December 2018 in Sportives/audaxes/training rides
Just had an email - no 2019 velothon wales or future years - Never did and it was was my no 1 target for next year !

Comments

  • johnsonmoog
    johnsonmoog Posts: 51
    Shame, as I very much enjoyed doing it this year. They noted 8,000 people took part this year, and 40,000 between 2015-2018, so it was clearly popular - but obviously not profitable/sustainable.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,254
    Shame, I did it a couple of times and enjoyed it a lot more than the RideLondon.

    Those people who have been imprisoned in their homes will be breathing a sigh of relief.
  • kingrollo
    kingrollo Posts: 3,198
    I did velo birminghan which sold 15k entries as did velo south - perhaps 8k riders just doesn't cover the costs.
  • Ericshun
    Ericshun Posts: 34
    https://www.dragonride.co.uk

    This has probably killed it off.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,254
    Ericshun wrote:
    https://www.dragonride.co.uk

    This has probably killed it off.

    That's been around for a long time though. Moving the date so they are less of a direct competitor might have been wise though.
  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Ericshun wrote:
    https://www.dragonride.co.uk

    This has probably killed it off.

    That's been around for a long time though. Moving the date so they are less of a direct competitor might have been wise
    though.
    They are very different events, though. Dragon Ride is open roads, choice of distances, lots of hills. Velothon Wale is more urban, less hills and (crucially) closed roads. it doesn't, however, hit the magic 100 miles, which makes it less appealing to those who want a headline challenge.

    I think the cost and hassle of putting on closed road event is the reason it isn't continuing. I can't see Velothon South happening in future, either, not after all the fuss this year from the locals.


    I was eyeing up the BC Norfolk sportive for next year - on National Championship route on the same day. Guaranteed to have decent roads in those circumstances.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Ericshun wrote:
    https://www.dragonride.co.uk

    This has probably killed it off.

    The Dragon Ride has been around for a lot longer than you have been cycling...
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,744
    8000 riders ! I lost interest in uk sportives some years ago and had no idea we had events of that size outside of Ride London.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,255
    I think the Dragon Ride is struggling too, judging by the bombardment of emails with discounts for early birds
    left the forum March 2023
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,254
    mrfpb wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Ericshun wrote:
    https://www.dragonride.co.uk

    This has probably killed it off.

    That's been around for a long time though. Moving the date so they are less of a direct competitor might have been wise
    though.
    They are very different events, though. Dragon Ride is open roads, choice of distances, lots of hills. Velothon Wale is more urban, less hills and (crucially) closed roads. it doesn't, however, hit the magic 100 miles, which makes it less appealing to those who want a headline challenge.

    They are different events, I've done both more than once - but when they are only a couple of weeks apart, I'm not going to go to South Wales for both, even with family I can stay with.
  • Ericshun
    Ericshun Posts: 34
    KingstonGraham wrote:

    They are different events, I've done both more than once - but when they are only a couple of weeks apart, I'm not going to go to South Wales for both, even with family I can stay with.

    And therin lies the problem, you’re not alone in that thinking.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,744
    Clicked on the Dragon Ride website, except for the 300k it looks more reasonably priced than I was expecting. Can't understand why it is offering 4 distances though - it only confuses potential customers who want to do The Dragon Ride with the 4k others not choose a route from a list. No problem with the shorter option I recognise cycling should be for all but then 3 routes which are a gnat's off 100 miles and longer seems pointless.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,255
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    Clicked on the Dragon Ride website, except for the 300k it looks more reasonably priced than I was expecting. Can't understand why it is offering 4 distances though - it only confuses potential customers who want to do The Dragon Ride with the 4k others not choose a route from a list. No problem with the shorter option I recognise cycling should be for all but then 3 routes which are a gnat's off 100 miles and longer seems pointless.

    THey introduced the 300 because there is a demand for long distance, with the all saga of Mark Beaumont, Mike Hall etc, but I don't think they are hitting the right audience.

    Long distance Audaxes seem to be more popular than a few years back... the London-Wales-London 400 km sells out in hours, WIndsor-Chester-Windsor and the Bryan Chapmn Memorial 600 km sold out in a few days and of course London-Edinburgh-London 1400 sells out quickly too
    left the forum March 2023
  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    The 300km was the only one to sell out last year, so I think they got it right on that score. Aiming for 5,000 across the event but getting only 3,000 on the day seems to have been enough to make it sustainable. It started with 280 on the first one so it can considered a success.


    I see there is no headline sponsor on the site now, the E'tape Tour de France branding has gone. It's had lots of sponsors over the years, but seems to keep going.
  • Tiesetrotter
    Tiesetrotter Posts: 432
    Dragon Ride is a great event. Even the fact you have to ride down the dual carriageway is fine as it seems no one is around, well at that time of the morning. We took almost every room in a Brains pub about 7 miles away.

    It's a cracker of a route with a huge variation of countryside.
  • Philip Whiteman
    Philip Whiteman Posts: 470
    The promoters have claimed that they are unable to continue due to sustainability problems We can only assume that sustainability equals financial. By comparison, CSM Active Ltd, the company behind Velo Birmingham and Velo South, made £1.1m loss from on a turnover of £2m although and only survives on the support of Chime Communications and the prospect of improved returns in the future - though cancellation of Velo South 2018 may have scuppered that hope and we cannot assume that insurance would have mitigated against all losses.

    The sustainability of such of events is very much reliant upon the tolerance of parent of companies to support loss making concerns. In the case of Velothon that would Ironman Clearly, no parent company is going to purposefully create a loss making concern but one wonders whether this type of event is simply not viable and the demise of Velothon plus CSM's own precarious position will result in new entrants not coming to market in the future using this particular model.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,255
    Philip Whiteman wrote:

    The sustainability of such of events is very much reliant upon the tolerance of parent of companies to support loss making concerns. In the case of Velothon that would Ironman Clearly, no parent company is going to purposefully create a loss making concern but one wonders whether this type of event is simply not viable and the demise of Velothon plus CSM's own precarious position will result in new entrants not coming to market in the future using this particular model.

    Basically this...

    if you can't be sustainable with ten thousand entrants charged an extortionate fee, then the all business model is very much in question
    left the forum March 2023
  • kingrollo
    kingrollo Posts: 3,198
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Philip Whiteman wrote:

    The sustainability of such of events is very much reliant upon the tolerance of parent of companies to support loss making concerns. In the case of Velothon that would Ironman Clearly, no parent company is going to purposefully create a loss making concern but one wonders whether this type of event is simply not viable and the demise of Velothon plus CSM's own precarious position will result in new entrants not coming to market in the future using this particular model.

    Basically this...

    if you can't be sustainable with ten thousand entrants charged an extortionate fee, then the all business model is very much in question

    And if its not sustainable - then you have the added bonus of being a being a very happy man Ugo.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    It's like all these things - certain types of event become popular - reach a peak, then fall away back down to the "core few". The aim of the business is to either tailor the event to change with what's popular or cut the running costs.
    Unfortunately, everyone wants their pound of flesh for these types of events, so they're expensive to put on as a commercial venture. Even the commercial sportives required teams of volunteers to run, so they were never really a commercial success.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,255
    Slowbike wrote:
    Even the commercial sportives required teams of volunteers to run, so they were never really a commercial success.

    The charity model works. FWC have racked up over a million pound in charity through the years...
    left the forum March 2023
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    Even the commercial sportives required teams of volunteers to run, so they were never really a commercial success.

    The charity model works. FWC have racked up over a million pound in charity through the years...

    I can see why - generally, people don't mind donating ££ for a charity to ride their bikes on a pre-arranged route with a few others. It's the ££ for a pre-arranged route that's the same as last year with a few cheap* cakes/snacks at 2 "feed stations" on open roads manned by volunteers that starts to get a bit much.

    *it is the cheapest of the cheap - supermarket branded cakes that cost £1 a pack - you'd think they'd have the budget for something a bit better.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,776
    kingrollo wrote:
    Just had an email - no 2019 velothon wales or future years - Never did and it was was my no 1 target for next year !
    As was pointed out on Facebook, you can ride the route any day you wish. You may even organise a few minded cyclists to do it with you. It may even spread to a few thousand, if the interest is there. Not closed road though.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,254
    PBlakeney wrote:
    kingrollo wrote:
    Just had an email - no 2019 velothon wales or future years - Never did and it was was my no 1 target for next year !
    As was pointed out on Facebook, you can ride the route any day you wish. You may even organise a few minded cyclists to do it with you. It may even spread to a few thousand, if the interest is there. Not closed road though.

    Don't do this - quite a bit of the route wouldn't be so good when there's cars powering past at 70mph.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,776
    edited November 2018
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    kingrollo wrote:
    Just had an email - no 2019 velothon wales or future years - Never did and it was was my no 1 target for next year !
    As was pointed out on Facebook, you can ride the route any day you wish. You may even organise a few minded cyclists to do it with you. It may even spread to a few thousand, if the interest is there. Not closed road though.

    Don't do this - quite a bit of the route wouldn't be so good when there's cars powering past at 70mph.
    Ah! Not familiar with the route, just a solution to the problems.
    Tweak the route?

    Just for perspective - I signed up to do the Caledonia Etape post tack year out of spite and decided to travel up north to do a recon ride beforehand. I much preferred the recon ride to the event. A first and last sportive.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,255
    kingrollo wrote:

    And if its not sustainable - then you have the added bonus of being a being a very happy man Ugo.

    I have no feelings either way... if a closed road event is welcome in an area, then it is a good thing, if it is not welcome, then it is a bad thing. Velosouth happened to be a bad thing.

    What saddens me is to witness people who see these events as the only opportunity to go "out in the wild". Sometimes being a bit more audacious pays dividends. There are many areas in the country where road closures are simply not necessary, because the traffic is so low and you can cycle them whenever you want
    left the forum March 2023
  • cyclingsheep
    cyclingsheep Posts: 640
    The same happened to Etape Cymru. It was a closed road event that did some interesting hills in Nth Wales but numbers fell the third year and suggestions for coming years were to do it on open roads with just Horseshoe Pass as a closed road section. This did not get many takers as the narrow roads with cars and a thousand plus riders was a recipe for disaster. You need numbers to make it palatable for the councils which is why closed road events require you to collect your pack in person the day before the event so you’re forced to stay overnight and spend money on the local economy. If numbers fall it doesn’t work.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,255
    cyclingsheep wrote:
    The same happened to Etape Cymru. It was a closed road event that did some interesting hills in Nth Wales but numbers fell the third year and suggestions for coming years were to do it on open roads with just Horseshoe Pass as a closed road section. This did not get many takers as the narrow roads with cars and a thousand plus riders was a recipe for disaster. You need numbers to make it palatable for the councils which is why closed road events require you to collect your pack in person the day before the event so you’re forced to stay overnight and spend money on the local economy. If numbers fall it doesn’t work.

    I did it in 2013... locals were not best pleased with our presence and there were tacks on the road. It wasn't a popular revolt like Velosouth though.
    The course was interesting, but the best bits could have equally been on open roads... the traffic on Panorama Walk and up World's end is almost inexistent. Horseshoe pass can be avoided using the "old Shoe pass", which is a much more "interesting" climb and is traffic free... so the all closed roads thing was very much unnecessary. Could make a nice hard sportive on open roads, it wouldn't have 10,000 entrants, but it would be cheap to run. For good measure I would also add Cwm Penbarras :mrgreen:
    left the forum March 2023

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