Time for new tyres

slowbike
slowbike Posts: 8,498
edited November 2018 in Road buying advice
It's pretty much time for new tyres - my current sets are looking a bit ropey - tbf I think it's about 3 years since I bought a tyre - so they've done ok ...

I'm looking for 23mm (they fit, they're comfy and I've got a bike with wider tyres if I need it). Had Conti 4seasons and Conti GP4000's (not the MkII yet) so far ...

Use is general road use - quite a few country lanes though - looking more for grip/longevity than puncture protection.

I know Merlin have a 10% deal on atm - any other suggestions?

Comments

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,309
    look no further

    https://www.merlincycles.com/vittoria-r ... 87381.html
    left the forum March 2023
  • kingrollo
    kingrollo Posts: 3,198
    I have the new Pirelli p zero - very impressed - easy on/off the rims which gives them a slight edge over the gp 4000s ii
  • singleton
    singleton Posts: 2,523
    I have gp4000 on my summer bike and Michelin proV endurance on my winter bike - both very good IMO with the Michelin being a bit more robust.
  • kingrollo
    kingrollo Posts: 3,198
    Singleton wrote:
    I have gp4000 on my summer bike and Michelin proV endurance on my winter bike - both very good IMO with the Michelin being a bit more robust.

    I have pro 4 end on my winter bike - great tyre the flaw is the are an absolute pig to get on/off my khamsin rings
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    look no further

    https://www.merlincycles.com/vittoria-r ... 87381.html

    pricewise - that looks pretty good - but rolling resistance? I suppose I could find a decent pair to put on the "TT wheels" which don't go out that much - and use these for general riding.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,309
    Slowbike wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    look no further

    https://www.merlincycles.com/vittoria-r ... 87381.html

    pricewise - that looks pretty good - but rolling resistance? I suppose I could find a decent pair to put on the "TT wheels" which don't go out that much - and use these for general riding.

    Rolling resistance differences between decent tyres is probably in the region of 2-3 Watts... I am not sure what difference 2-3 Watts are going to make to your so called "performances", plus you said they are for general use... :wink:
    left the forum March 2023
  • N0bodyOfTheGoat
    N0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 6,029
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    look no further

    https://www.merlincycles.com/vittoria-r ... 87381.html

    I bought a pair of these just after Ugo, I found them OK, but perhaps a little draggy after using my first pair of GP4000S IIs all summer, even while keeping the latex tubes (which I've now swapped out for winter). One fairy visit, but small arrow shaped flint would have probably got through most tyres, not helped by the latex tubes losing pressure. For the ~1 month they were on, they were OK, just felt a bit more hard work.

    Now using my first set of https://www.merlincycles.com/continenta ... 45210.html , I did fit new cassette and chain the same day, but they felt amazing considering I was just getting over proper flu. https://www.strava.com/activities/19327 ... s/561/1677 is only ~6W off my best ever 20min effort and there was a ~15.5mph NNW headwind that day. Not sure if I've been out on the Cube since that day, but the front tyre has coped well with some turbo climbing miles. :lol:

    Bought a set of https://www.merlincycles.com/vredestein ... 97592.html at same time as 4 Seasons, yet to try.

    I ordered some Funkier and Sealskinz clothing yesterday from Merlin because they are other brands in their recent automatic 10% off price when added to basket promo, but I came very close to adding a pair of https://www.merlincycles.com/hutchinson ... 16846.html for ~£30 each, to try tubeless for the first time... But I ended up removing them from basket, due to the above three recent tyre purchases.

    All in 700x28 variants.
    ================
    2020 Voodoo Marasa
    2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
    2016 Voodoo Wazoo
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    look no further

    https://www.merlincycles.com/vittoria-r ... 87381.html

    pricewise - that looks pretty good - but rolling resistance? I suppose I could find a decent pair to put on the "TT wheels" which don't go out that much - and use these for general riding.

    Rolling resistance differences between decent tyres is probably in the region of 2-3 Watts... I am not sure what difference 2-3 Watts are going to make to your so called "performances", plus you said they are for general use... :wink:
    https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... ke-reviews

    GP4000II's @ 100psi - 12.9w
    vs
    Rubino Pro G @100psi - 16w

    so - yer - 3w ... for £15
  • w00dster
    w00dster Posts: 880
    At this time of year I'd always go for better puncture protection over "speed performance".
    Don't you need to double the Bicycle Rolling Resistance figures? So 3 watts becomes 6 watts? That's a huge difference, could save you 15 seconds or so on a 60 mile ride.....
    That said I do notice the difference with some tires, but don't let it bother me for winter / training purposes.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    w00dster wrote:
    At this time of year I'd always go for better puncture protection over "speed performance".
    I've found it doesn't make too much difference around here - but then I'm not using the fastest of tyres. I've no intention of changing them for "the summer". If it's ice/snow then I have a bike with suitable tyres on.
    w00dster wrote:
    Don't you need to double the Bicycle Rolling Resistance figures? So 3 watts becomes 6 watts? That's a huge difference, could save you 15 seconds or so on a 60 mile ride.....
    Ah - I guess so - will that make the difference between being able to hang on to the fastest club ride or not ...
    w00dster wrote:
    That said I do notice the difference with some tires, but don't let it bother me for winter / training purposes.
    My experience with different tyres is somewhat lacking - due to the fact that I make them last ;) I would've gone straight for the 4000's again - but £££ makes me think that there must be some better alternatives - hence this thread :)
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,309
    Slowbike wrote:
    Ah - I guess so - will that make the difference between being able to hang on to the fastest club ride or not ...

    No, typically is not lack of average power that gets you dropped, but lack of peak power... i.e. when they accelerate hard going up a 2% section, you get left behind... it's not the 6 Watts you are missing, more like 60 and it's hard to build 60 Watts out of marginal gains... besides, some people get dropped anyway as they don't see the thing happening, lose 3-4 meters and then they need an extra 100 Watt to catch them
    left the forum March 2023
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    Ah - I guess so - will that make the difference between being able to hang on to the fastest club ride or not ...

    No, typically is not lack of average power that gets you dropped, but lack of peak power... i.e. when they accelerate hard going up a 2% section, you get left behind... it's not the 6 Watts you are missing, more like 60 and it's hard to build 60 Watts out of marginal gains... besides, some people get dropped anyway as they don't see the thing happening, lose 3-4 meters and then they need an extra 100 Watt to catch them
    :)
    Despite lack of emoji's - it was a bit of a tongue in cheek response.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,309
    Slowbike wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    Ah - I guess so - will that make the difference between being able to hang on to the fastest club ride or not ...

    No, typically is not lack of average power that gets you dropped, but lack of peak power... i.e. when they accelerate hard going up a 2% section, you get left behind... it's not the 6 Watts you are missing, more like 60 and it's hard to build 60 Watts out of marginal gains... besides, some people get dropped anyway as they don't see the thing happening, lose 3-4 meters and then they need an extra 100 Watt to catch them
    :)
    Despite lack of emoji's - it was a bit of a tongue in cheek response.

    But it is a fairly common way of seeing things on the WWW and one that inevitably is crushed by reality. To hang on in a chain gang, one doesn't need a huge average power output, but rather the ability to go beyond threshold often and maybe for prolonged periods... so adding small bits of aero equipment here and there won't do much, whereas a solid program of interval training might
    left the forum March 2023
  • _Bones
    _Bones Posts: 8
    Early days but I'm a fan of my Michelin Pro 4 Endurance so far.
  • Tetragrammaton1
    Tetragrammaton1 Posts: 72
    Michelin Pro 4 endurance V2 would be a good shout. They have a good mix of endurance and performance

    https://m.probikekit.co.uk/bicycle-tyre ... 90762.html
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    Slowbike wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    look no further

    https://www.merlincycles.com/vittoria-r ... 87381.html

    pricewise - that looks pretty good - but rolling resistance? I suppose I could find a decent pair to put on the "TT wheels" which don't go out that much - and use these for general riding.

    Rolling resistance differences between decent tyres is probably in the region of 2-3 Watts... I am not sure what difference 2-3 Watts are going to make to your so called "performances", plus you said they are for general use... :wink:
    https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... ke-reviews

    GP4000II's @ 100psi - 12.9w
    vs
    Rubino Pro G @100psi - 16w

    so - yer - 3w ... for £15
    I'm not going to shout too loudly about this, but the Rubino Pro 3 is back in stock at chainreaction again in 700x23 and 700x25 for £12 a tyre.

    The rolling resistance, while not quite as good as the GP4000 is a lot better than the G+ model that replaced it.

    I plan on stocking up.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,309
    I think rolling resistance is a red herring... yes, a pair of GP 4000 are better than a pair of Marathon plus, but among the 23 mm ca. 200 gram tyres the differences are very very minute.

    Also bear in mind the guy who measures them on a drum uses a surface nobody cycles on, so results are to be taken with a pinch of salt
    left the forum March 2023
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Also bear in mind the guy who measures them on a drum uses a surface nobody cycles on, so results are to be taken with a pinch of salt

    Surely everyone cycles on aluminium checkerplate...?? ;)
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    I think the numbers he comes up with are meaningful in terms of relative rolling resistance, but not in terms of what wattage differences will be experienced on the road (because a tyre set up with higher rolling resistance might be better at absorbing bumps, which in turn saves a lot of energy because you are not being repeatedly lifted then dropped down - hence why we don't all run our tyres as maximum pressure)


    The main problem as I see it with the test results is that there is no way to differentiate between a tyre that has poor rolling resistance because it is sticky (broadly, a good thing) and a tyre that is very stiff (bad thing). A stiff tyre that has no grip would be bad, but wouldn't look that bad on that test.

    Perhaps he also needs to measure the grip of the tyre and the force required to deform a static tyre under no pressure?
  • step83
    step83 Posts: 4,170
    Tyre wise I'm running two bikes one with Schwalbe One V Guard and the other with Michelin Pro 4 Endurance V2. In terms of feel when riding I prefer the Schwalbe's which also have a better rolling resistance.
    Note you can also improve rolling resistance with latex tubes which may also give a slight weight bonus over normal rubber downside being you have to pump them every day but if your checking your pressures anyway its no real issue.

    I would say road feel and protection is a bigger thing than resistance as there are so many other factors that come into play.
    Titanium Px Spitfire
    Easty commuter
    Tripster AT
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,309
    The problem is that rolling resistance is generally a minor thing and it's only of real concern to "testers", who look for seconds here and there... to a much lesser extend it might concern "road racers".

    The reality is that everyone seem to be concerned about the odd watt that you can squeeze out of a friction between two surfaces, most of the times ignoring the reality that is a figure that possibly concerns 2-3% of the overall resistance to movement and can be improved by 10% at best, which means by 0.2 to 0.3%, these are realistic calculations based on physics.

    A combined rolling resistance of 30 Watt for 2 tyres simply doesn't add up to the maths, because it means one would need 900 Watt to travel at that speed... the reality is more like 10 combined Watts for the two tyres, so improvements in the order of 1 Watt...

    You know where you can stick one watt, don't you?
    left the forum March 2023
  • faster97
    faster97 Posts: 33
    TimothyW wrote:
    I'm not going to shout too loudly about this, but the Rubino Pro 3 is back in stock at chainreaction again in 700x23 and 700x25 for £12 a tyre.

    The rolling resistance, while not quite as good as the GP4000 is a lot better than the G+ model that replaced it.

    I plan on stocking up.

    Thanks for the heads up TimothyW.

    Great tyres these in my experience - quick, light, enough grip, cheap, last for ages and I get thousands of miles between punctures on my commute.

    Ordered already
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Riding over a continous manhole is like the rolling drum test. That would be horrible.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • joe_totale-2
    joe_totale-2 Posts: 1,333
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    Riding over a continous manhole is like the rolling drum test. That would be horrible.

    Some of the roads in London feel like a continuous manhole interspersed with potholes.

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