Good handling/racey 4S bike

joey54321

Hi All,

I current have two bikes, my race/summer bike and my old race/summer titanium bike which I currently use as a winter & commuting bike. I'd like to replace the frameset with something more suitable (full mudguards, racks for commuting, disc brakes), however, I also currently use this bike for trips abroad and for some more 'leisure' riding in the summer. As a result, I want to replace it with a bike with feels equally nice to ride.

I don't have a massive budget, but I also don't want to end up buying twice, if I need to save up for a couple of months so be it.

Models I have currently seen:
Tifosi CK7 Disc - £400
Kinesis Racelight - £750
Mason Definition - £1150
Fairlight Stael - £1050

The Kinesis is on the end of my 'current' budget, the Mason is a bit of a 'dream'/stretch bike and the Tifsoi I could buy today. So, has anyone got experience with the above? Any more to consider?

My other dilemma which would be great to get some input in to is gavel Vs road. I have a cross bike but I like the do anything/go anywhere idea behind bikes like the Mason Bokeh, Fairlight Secan and likely many others as my cross bike is very much a racing cross bike. The problem I find with many of these bikes is that they are often very tall at the front, normally ~4-5cm too high stack figures. Is anyone aware of a 'racey' fitting 'gravel' bike and/or have any input into how these bikes handle and behave when used in road bike guise?

Any help appreciated.

moonshine

Kinesis 4S?
https://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/Catalogu ... ht/4S-DISC

joey54321

moonshine wrote:

Kinesis 4S?
https://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/Catalogu ... ht/4S-DISC

Yup, listed above and is on the 'consider' list.

shamrock134

Bowman Pilgrims Disc? Here's mine... viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=13095395



The ride position is set up to be as aggressive as my summer bike but it did require a slammed, 120mm, -20deg stem as the frame reach and stack aren't as aggressive by default.

I'm running 25mm tubeless but it can fit 30mm under guards. I don't gravel ride but some might say 30mm is too narrow for gravel?

joey54321

Looks lovely but from the geometry charts it looks very short in the reach, by the time the reach matches my current bike I'm on a 58 and 5 cm too high.

shamrock134

You can just choose a longer stem. I typically run a 100mm stem. The Bowman has 20mm less frame reach which is solved by a 120mm stem.

I suppose you may risk significant toe overlap though.

I think I concluded when I was researching my build there are simply no frames on the market that are racy/aggressive but tick the practical boxes of discs, mudguards, wide tyres etc. You will have to compromise in some way by tuning the stack/reach with a long, negative stem that is slammed. Or getting a racy frame that lacks eyelets and using clip-on guards.

joey54321

shamrock134 wrote:

You can just choose a longer stem. I typically run a 100mm stem. The Bowman has 20mm less frame reach which is solved by a 120mm stem.

I suppose you may risk significant toe overlap though.

I think I concluded when I was researching my build there are simply no frames on the market that are racy/aggressive but tick the practical boxes of discs, mudguards, wide tyres etc. You will have to compromise in some way by tuning the stack/reach with a long, negative stem that is slammed. Or getting a racy frame that lacks eyelets and using clip-on guards.

I would need a 16cm long stem :shock:

shamrock134

Pro!

lettingthedaysgoby

joey54321 wrote:

I would need a 16cm long stem :shock:

That would look kinda awesome 8)

w00dster

Been in a similar dilemma, I wanted a bike for commutes, fast winter club rides, winter series crit races and I also wanted the same bike to be capable for off-road gravel rides. I went with a Trek Domane disc. It can accommodate 33mm knobbly tyres, 32mm slicks with guards. Its a cracking do everything bike. (I think the 2018 Domane can also accept 35mm Schwalbe G One - it was the 105 derailleur that gets in the way of 35mm tyres on mine)
My better weather race bike is an Aeroad, I've got the Domane set up reasonably close to the Aeroad (or at least it is to my eye).
I'd also have a look at the Emonda ALR Disc, this can take 32mm slicks. I see a fair few of them on the racing circuit.

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/07/2019-tr ... lr-review/

I was also tempted to look at a Planet X frame only, the Viner Mitus Disc looks good for racing, but no frame only option.

step83

w00dster wrote:

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/07/2019-tr ... lr-review/

I was also tempted to look at a Planet X frame only, the Viner Mitus Disc looks good for racing, but no frame only option.

Wait for their black Friday stuff an toward Christmas, usually they magic some frames out of somewhere.

rwoofer

Just curious around this problem as I find many frames too aggressive in their geometry, whereas many here obviously find the opposite. I generally ride with my handlebars 9cm below my saddle, but it seems others must be on 15cm plus. Out on the road I mostly see people with a full stack of spacers and generally less agressive than me. Are you guys pros?

joey54321

Definitely not a pro but I do ride in quite an aggressive position, though the issue with just measuring bar drop is it's dependent on height; my bar drop is also 9cm.

My race bike has a stack of 549 and a reach of 385 and I ride that with a slammed 120cm stem (not for the pro look, but that's just what fits, I even have spacers above the stem for if/when I sell the bike or get old, less flexible or less desire to go faster).

mankybianchi

w00dster wrote:

I was also tempted to look at a Planet X frame only, the Viner Mitus Disc looks good for racing, but no frame only option.

Few choices here, no?

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FRVIMITDI ... -frame-set

mitchgixer6

Maybe not as exclusive as you are currently looking at, but the Dolan Preffisio has a pretty short head tube.

joey54321

mitchgixer6 wrote:

Maybe not as exclusive as you are currently looking at, but the Dolan Preffisio has a pretty short head tube.

Unfortunately no disc brakes though, otherwise it would have been good.

joey54321

Although I've just seen the Dolan RDX, looks good! Basically a prefessio with discs and MASSIVE tyre clearance (in road terms) for £330. Very tempting!

wotnoshoeseh

Kinesis 4S would be what I'd be looking to.

The 2019 one is out so there are some deals to be had on the outgoing model. I believe Merlin has a raft of all sizes in blue selling out for £440?

EDIT:- https://www.merlincycles.com/kinesis-racelight-4s-disc-frameset-2018-87281.html

step83

joey54321 wrote:

Although I've just seen the Dolan RDX, looks good! Basically a prefessio with discs and MASSIVE tyre clearance (in road terms) for £330. Very tempting!

That RDX is nice, quite liking the orange black combo, thought I think the weight is off, if you load the details its listed as 0.0000, aerogel bike?

joey54321

I think I have narrowed it down to

Kinesis Racelight 4S - smallest tyre clearance, good reviews, widely used and recommended as a good road winter trainer, most expensive

Dolan RDX - Aimed at road riding, but clearance for bigger tyres (up to 35c w/ mudguards) so good for taking the bridleway to work, slightly cheaper than the 4s

Shark Traverse - The cheapest as the frameset comes with a set of wheels, it's a cross bike so loads of tyre clearance but not sure what it'll handle like on the road. Least 'well known' entity, at least for me.

step83

That shark has some interesting angles, 69 degree head angle should make it a very nice handling, note that rear axle should be listed as a 12mm not 15mm from what the Pro-Lites listed as on their own site.
To be fair if I didnt have a second bike Id be tempted to take a punt.

keef66

wotnoshoeseh wrote:

Kinesis 4S would be what I'd be looking to.

The 2019 one is out so there are some deals to be had on the outgoing model. I believe Merlin has a raft of all sizes in blue selling out for £440?

EDIT:- https://www.merlincycles.com/kinesis-racelight-4s-disc-frameset-2018-87281.html

Seriously tempted by one of those! I like the fact that it takes rim brakes too. Only slight downside is the QR rear; I've never used anything else but it might bother those who'd prefer TA front and rear. That's been addressed for the 2019 model.

joey54321

Step83 wrote:

That shark has some interesting angles, 69 degree head angle should make it a very nice handling, note that rear axle should be listed as a 12mm not 15mm from what the Pro-Lites listed as on their own site.
To be fair if I didnt have a second bike Id be tempted to take a punt.

Yeah, it looks quite 'modern mountain bike' inspired geometry with the long reach, low BB and a slack angle heat tube. I've never ridden a bike with that slack a head tube though, i've no idea if I'd like it.

keef66 wrote:

wotnoshoeseh wrote:

Kinesis 4S would be what I'd be looking to.

The 2019 one is out so there are some deals to be had on the outgoing model. I believe Merlin has a raft of all sizes in blue selling out for £440?

EDIT:- [url]<a href="https://www.merlincycles.com/kinesis-racelight-4s-disc-frameset-2018-87281.html&quot; class="skimlinks-unlinked" data-skimwords-word="https%3A%2F%2Fwww.merlincycles.com%2Fkinesis-racelight-4s-disc-frameset-2018-87281.html" data-skim-creative="500005" title="" style="">https://www.merlincycles.com/kinesis-racelight-4s-disc-frameset-2018-87281.html</a>[/url]

Seriously tempted by one of those! I like the fact that it takes rim brakes too. Only slight downside is the QR rear; I've never used anything else but it might bother those who'd prefer TA front and rear. That's been addressed for the 2019 model.

If it had TA i think I would have already bought one :P

moonshine

I would have bought a 4S had it had thru-axles when i was looking in late spring - i now have a Cervelo C3...

ayjaycee

That Kinesis 4S is the exact bike that I have just built up for winter riding (TA or otherwise never came into the equation for me personally). I have mentioned elsewhere that I have initially gone for rim brakes (TRP RG957 long drop) and Kinesis Fend Offs mudguards and there's loads of room for my favoured 25mm Continental GP 4 Seasons. I reckon the 28mm version would still leave ample space - I've got some lightly used ones hanging up in the shed and will be trying them at some point soon (just need to get the right tubes). All in all, I'm well chuffed at how well it's turned out and would recommend the frame to anybody looking for a similar type of bike. Although it's always been well reviewed, I had never actually ridden one and so the project was always going to be a bit of a leap of faith. As and when that my current Mavic Aksiums need replacing, I might decide to go disk brakes and it's nice to have the option.