Running "non tubeless rims" tubeless

joey54321
joey54321 Posts: 1,297
edited November 2018 in Workshop
I have a set of nice wheels with a Halo Archetype rim, I'd rather buy a new set but would quite like to run tubeless. I know this isn't a tubeless ready rim, but is there any sort of safety concern with attempting to 'convert' this to tubeless with a couple of layers of tape?

Cheers!

Comments

  • orlok
    orlok Posts: 89
    joey54321 wrote:
    I have a set of nice wheels with a Halo Archetype rim, I'd rather buy a new set but would quite like to run tubeless. I know this isn't a tubeless ready rim, but is there any sort of safety concern with attempting to 'convert' this to tubeless with a couple of layers of tape?

    Cheers!
    Yes, but if you use the search function you can find any information you want. :wink:
    There will be always a moment of tailwind.Pinarello F8/10 - Ultegra 8000 Di2 - Carbonspeed C50 UST - Tubeless
  • joey54321
    joey54321 Posts: 1,297
    Orlok wrote:
    joey54321 wrote:
    I have a set of nice wheels with a Halo Archetype rim, I'd rather buy a new set but would quite like to run tubeless. I know this isn't a tubeless ready rim, but is there any sort of safety concern with attempting to 'convert' this to tubeless with a couple of layers of tape?

    Cheers!
    Yes, but if you use the search function you can find any information you want. :wink:

    I did try a search but couldn't find the answers I wanted. I've found plenty of people saying they are running this rim tubeless, but I wanted to know what safety concerns there are regarding running a non tubeless rim tubeless. What makes a rim 'tubeless ready'?
  • socrates
    socrates Posts: 453
    Non tubeless rim is for tube type tyres only, in my humble opinion
  • joey54321
    joey54321 Posts: 1,297
    socrates wrote:
    Non tubeless rim is for tube type tyres only, in my humble opinion

    So what is the difference in the design, once (if you can get) the tyre seated?
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    I think the main difference is that rims for tubeless tyres have a ridge on the inside that will keep a tubeless tyre from coming off when deflated. In your case, if the tyre should become deflated, the tyre may simply come off the rim.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • orlok
    orlok Posts: 89
    drlodge wrote:
    I think the main difference is that rims for tubeless tyres have a ridge on the inside that will keep a tubeless tyre from coming off when deflated. In your case, if the tyre should become deflated, the tyre may simply come off the rim.
    If there is something I did learn in liftime is that you don't must think if you don't know.! :wink:
    The real difference between tubeless ready rims and non tubeless ready is only that the first one don't have open spokeholes and evacuation hole for water in the rim. There are also tubeless ready rims that have a UST profiel, that is better for easy mounting the tubelss tire.! Otherwise there is practical no difference in the ridge on the outside of the rim from tubeless ready or non tubeless. Almost every non tubeless rim you can make suitable with tubeless rim tape for use with tubeless tires, even hookless rims but be carefull with them because with hookless rim the tire can come off. :wink:
    There will be always a moment of tailwind.Pinarello F8/10 - Ultegra 8000 Di2 - Carbonspeed C50 UST - Tubeless
  • svetty
    svetty Posts: 1,904
    I don't think I would ever want to put this to the test, however it occurs to me that - assuming a non-tubeless designed rim - a tubeless tyre that deflates suddenly is probably no more likely to come off the rim than a tubed tyre?

    Most cyclists accept that there is a theoretical risk of a tubed tyre deflating suddenly and coming off with potentially catastrophic results but in reality it hardly ever happens. Tubeless tyres are less likely to deflate as quickly so - in theory - should be less likely to come off than a tubed tyre. I don't think that tubeless beads are more stretchy than tubed......

    I exclusively ride tubes now having tried tubeless FWIW
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • joey54321
    joey54321 Posts: 1,297
    Svetty wrote:
    I don't think I would ever want to put this to the test, however it occurs to me that - assuming a non-tubeless designed rim - a tubeless tyre that deflates suddenly is probably no more likely to come off the rim than a tubed tyre?

    Most cyclists accept that there is a theoretical risk of a tubed tyre deflating suddenly and coming off with potentially catastrophic results but in reality it hardly ever happens. Tubeless tyres are less likely to deflate as quickly so - in theory - should be less likely to come off than a tubed tyre. I don't think that tubeless beads are more stretchy than tubed......

    I exclusively ride tubes now having tried tubeless FWIW

    Interesting, what did you not like about tubeless? I think it's brilliant on my cross bike. It only occured to me to try tubeless on the road this morning during a wet, cold commute and all I could think was "please don't get a flat".
  • svetty
    svetty Posts: 1,904
    I must be quite lucky in that I only seem to puncture once every 2000 miles or so. Changing a tube is a 5 minute exercise and I know I can do this quickly and easily. I have been on rides where friends have been unable to resolve tubeless punctures and needed to call taxis. Probably this is due to a lack of ability to implement worms and perhaps if I was confident in doing this then I would return to tubeless. I also don't own an airshot or compressor.......
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • orlok
    orlok Posts: 89
    Svetty wrote:
    I must be quite lucky in that I only seem to puncture once every 2000 miles or so. Changing a tube is a 5 minute exercise and I know I can do this quickly and easily. I have been on rides where friends have been unable to resolve tubeless punctures and needed to call taxis. Probably this is due to a lack of ability to implement worms and perhaps if I was confident in doing this then I would return to tubeless. I also don't own an airshot or compressor.......
    I'll advice your friends to take always a inner tube with them on the ride, they don't need to call taxis in that case.! :lol:
    There will be always a moment of tailwind.Pinarello F8/10 - Ultegra 8000 Di2 - Carbonspeed C50 UST - Tubeless
  • StillGoing
    StillGoing Posts: 5,211
    There's YouTube videos showing how to convert a non-tubeless wheel to tubeless. I run tubeless (Mavic Cosmic pro Carbon) with no problem for fitting with a standard foot pump and so far not a single puncture that I know about. I use Stans no tubes sealant, carry a pack of worms and a spare inner tube just in case.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • svetty
    svetty Posts: 1,904
    Orlok wrote:
    Svetty wrote:
    I must be quite lucky in that I only seem to puncture once every 2000 miles or so. Changing a tube is a 5 minute exercise and I know I can do this quickly and easily. I have been on rides where friends have been unable to resolve tubeless punctures and needed to call taxis. Probably this is due to a lack of ability to implement worms and perhaps if I was confident in doing this then I would return to tubeless. I also don't own an airshot or compressor.......
    I'll advice your friends to take always a inner tube with them on the ride, they don't need to call taxis in that case.! :lol:
    In most cases the issue was an inability to remove the tyre from the rim - broken levers and sprained thumbs notwithstanding. Or having got the tyre off and fitted a tube not being able to get the tyre back on.
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    As mentioned, the problem is creating a seal between the tyre and rim because of the lack of a 'ledge' in the well of the rim - it might be possible doing some ghetto arrangement with a rim strip / split tube method and these depend a lot on the tyre in question. FWIW Archetype rim is made by SON - Halo are re-branded Kinlin rims e.g. Kinlin XR30 is well worth a look and runs tubeless no problem.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • joey54321
    joey54321 Posts: 1,297
    So I know (have heard many people doing it) that the rim I have can be run tubeless, it seems like the consensus is that once (if) it's inflated there is no safety problem between a tubeless rim and a non-tubeless rim.
  • bobones
    bobones Posts: 1,215
    I don't think there's anything to be concerned regarding safety: it's more a problem of convenience because a fully deflated tubeless tyre on a non-tubeless rim is more likely to become unseated at the bead, breaking the airtight seal. This means it could be more difficult to get the tyre inflated after a tubeless repair (with worms or dynaplugs) on the road. In practice, it's very rare for a puncture to fully deflate a tubeless tyre and most punctures should seal anyway, but I'd advise carrying a spare inner tube to cover such cases. It's also worth pointing out that tyres can come unseated from some supposedly tubeless rims too.

    Rims with double eyelets are not so tubeless friendly because the rim bed isn't flat and tape won't seal the spoke holes easily. Otherwise pick up a pair of valves and some tape and give it a go. Planet X are doing a 50m roll of 20 mm tape for about a fiver and they have a good selection of valves cheap too. If you're tempted to try duct tape be aware that the adhesive leaves a gummy residue that is torture to remove for a rim.

    If you don't already have tubeless tyres then Merlin currently have Fusion 5 All Season 11Storm TLR for about £35, which is an excellent tubeless tyre for winter. The Maxxis Padrone is another favourite of mine: perhaps a little less tough, but super smooth and light,

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