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Rear Suspension with Lock out

skippy_77skippy_77 Posts: 35
edited November 2018 in MTB buying advice
I've just bought a Calibre Bossnut V2.
The rear suspension doesn't have a lock out feature.

I was looking at the Rock Shox Monarch XX, this locks out but can't seem to find this on sale with the lockout.

Can any one suggest any other Rear Shocks with Lockout, i'm not looking at something more than £200.

I ride most trails in Epping Forest and want something to switch to cope with the different terrain to when I change routes.

Posts

  • steve_sordysteve_sordy Posts: 2,311
    I'm not sure that you can get a shock with a lockout, just another setting with more compression damping.

    Long ago I stopped using the lockout on my fork because almost every single time I forgot to disengage it before descending the other side! :shock:

    I have owned FS bikes from steep XC ones with 100mm travel, all the way through to slack Enduro bikes with 165mm travel and I have never felt the need for a lockout on my shock to assist with hill climbing. It has to be a long, long tarmac or forest road climb before it occurs to me to engage the higher compression damping. But mostly I don't bother. I can't even remember the last time.

    I accept that if you like to climb whilst standing out of the saddle and hero grunt and heave your way to the top, then you will get some bounce at the rear. But if you remain seated and pedal smoothly in a higher cadence then you will ascend with a lot less effort. Are you sure that your shock has been properly set up?

    I like to spend money on my bike; new stuff that makes it "better" is very seductive. :D But £200 is a lot of money and you may subsequently discover that it is not what you need to do first.
  • jamskijamski Posts: 737
    As Steve said, no shock (or air fork for that matter?) will truly lock out, but just up the compression to the point where it's very, very firm. Having said that, I've had 'lockout' on both my full suss bikes and used it.

    The first with a Monarch RL, and now I have a Deluxe RT3 with open, pedal, and lock. To be honest, I probably use pedal more than lock, but if I know I'm on a long smooth climb, I will lock it out.

    If you have a Monarch now, I don't think you'll get a Deluxe to fit, but the Monarch RL, if it still exists, should do the job.
    Daddy, Husband, Designer, Biker, Gamer, Geek
    Bird Aeris 120 | Boardman Team 650b | Boardman Pro FS | Calibre Two.two
  • robertpbrobertpb Posts: 1,866
    Lockout I've found in the last 10 years is that I can count on one hand the times I've used it, the first time I found it usefull for steepening the seat angle and not much else. My ups are all a bit lumpy.

    The other times just to check pedaling smoothness.
    Now where's that "Get Out of Crash Free Card"
  • My shock has CTD climb/trail/decend and I do `lock out` on climbs if they are fairly smooth trail/road. Other than that it spends most of it's time in trail mode.

    I don't think it's essential to have but can understand why you might want it.
    "Ride, crash, replace"
  • Manitou Mcleod is super plush and some models come with lock out which you can install on the bars. I had one for a year and it was really good, I loved being able to stiffen the rear shock without stopping pedalling and it made going up hill much easier. These shocks are not well known and you can get them fairly cheap compare to Monarchs which tend to cost quite a bit more for models with similar features.
  • I've seen some shocks with the 3 setting soft/medium and firm rides.
    I just one something with more options than i have withbthe Monarch RS.
    At least with the firm it will me a better ride on the bridal ways and some road.
    What shocks that are inexpensive and do some have a cable to adjust as you're riding?
  • robertpbrobertpb Posts: 1,866
    I can't see how you are going to get a better ride on roads and bridleways with the shock in firm, my bike feels awful under those conditions. It doesn't turn the bike into a hardtail.
    Now where's that "Get Out of Crash Free Card"
  • steve_sordysteve_sordy Posts: 2,311
    In the circumstances that skippy_77 is referring to, the only reason to put the shock in firm is to stop the rear of the bike from bouncing. From on-line pics, the Calibre Bossnut V2 is a linkage controlled single pivot rear suspension. I used to have this type on my Kona Dawg and yes, they are prone to pedal bounce, but only if you are hero heaving. A smooth pedalling style and remaining seated damps it down a huge amount.

    @skippy_77: What % sag have you on the bike?
  • 898kor898kor Posts: 81
    I have a Bossnut V2 (XL) and I have fitted a Monarch RT3. Dont forget you will want the M M tune in a 190x51.

    As the others have suggested, you might find you do not need "lockout" - I used to use it quite a lot at first but I think that was novelty value. Now, 90% of the time it remains in pedal, the other 10% its in soft for downhillls such as Gisburn or Dalby - when I remember to change it.

    I paid full whack for my RT3 at around £280 but often see them come up on Ebay for less than £100 secondhand hand. I went for the debonair but hated it, I swopped the can off the old Monarch R to the RT3 to lose the debonair (Im a heavier rider so debonair loses its functions somewhat as my weight naturally overrides the sticktion that the debonair is designed and trying to overcome).

    I also have a Speacilized Levo (E-MTB) with 3 position Fox rear shock - that stays in pedal 100% of the time as the lever is just that bit more awkward to reach - on the bossnut you can reach it well.

    For me, what reduced pedal bob massively on the bossnut was an oval round chainring - this for me at least gives a smoother pedal input and therefore less "creation" of bob.
    Bossnut V2
    Levo FSR Comp
  • Thanks steve_sordy & 898kor,

    I weight over 90kg, and yes I am getting the bob/bounce affect and it's affecting my knees the next day. I also do a lot of running and have some knee injuries so I got a FS to use when I'm not running to exercise on as the weight' and stress is off my knees.

    I did get the bike adjusted to my weight, so not sure what the sag % is.

    So is the RT3 a good option, I know you can't get this any longer, so what would i need to look out for on ebay? Should they be refurbed or serviced?

    I can reach the shock to adjust it but would of preffered the remote lock out on the Monarch XX.

    What shock size will got on the Bossnut V2?

    What is the M M tune 190 x 51? Is that the shock size i need?
  • steve_sordysteve_sordy Posts: 2,311
    skippy_77 wrote:
    ...........

    I did get the bike adjusted to my weight, so not sure what the sag % is.

    ...............

    Here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG__UuR71lk
  • 898kor898kor Posts: 81
    skippy_77 wrote:
    Thanks steve_sordy & 898kor,

    I weight over 90kg, and yes I am getting the bob/bounce affect and it's affecting my knees the next day. I also do a lot of running and have some knee injuries so I got a FS to use when I'm not running to exercise on as the weight' and stress is off my knees.

    I did get the bike adjusted to my weight, so not sure what the sag % is.

    So is the RT3 a good option, I know you can't get this any longer, so what would i need to look out for on ebay? Should they be refurbed or serviced?

    I can reach the shock to adjust it but would have preffered the remote lock out on the Monarch XX.

    What shock size will got on the Bossnut V2?

    What is the M M tune 190 x 51? Is that the shock size i need?

    I cant recommended the oval chain rings enough, especially if you have tricky knees - I purchased mine from Uberbike and it is excellent.

    The monarch XX only advantage over your current shock is the remote lock - which unless your are worried about millisecond changes or constantly going too quick to be able to take your hands off the handlebar I would not bother - get the RL or RT3, its one less thing to go wrong and will stop handlebar clutter.

    So you need a 190x51 Monarch RT or RT3 (RL is just lock and pedal, RT3 is Lock, Pedal and fully open) - in a M M tune if you go for a RT3 it might have a third tune listed as Unlocked, thats fine. I think the colour coding is Red Red Blue for the tune label also.

    Get a search setup on Ebay - they come up often - usually around the £80 to £120 second hand. Aquick search found one brand new for £180 Clicky
    Bossnut V2
    Levo FSR Comp
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,601
    skippy_77 wrote:
    .....

    I did get the bike adjusted to my weight, so not sure what the sag % is.

    Shocks lose air, so need to be checked regularly. I do mine every ride but am a bit OCD. I would also adjust slightly depending on what I plan riding. I make it a bit softer/more travel for really rough stuff. There should be an O ring on the shaft to measure sag - stick it up the end, sit on bike, get off carefully and measure the distance the O ring moves. Best to do it kitted up so your weight is close to riding conditions. Translate into a percentage, and it should be somewhere between about 20% and 30%, depending on how you want it. If no O ring, a cable tie works.

    Pointless to blow money on a new shock if you are not using the one you have correctly.
    skippy_77 wrote:
    What shock size will got on the Bossnut V2?

    What is the M M tune 190 x 51? Is that the shock size i need?

    You also need travel length - of the shock, not the bike. Tune has nothing to do with shock size. It's the specific tuning for the rebound and compression settings. MM would be medium compression and medium damping. Sounds like you'd be better off with firmer compression.
    I don't do smileys.

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  • 898kor898kor Posts: 81
    cooldad wrote:
    skippy_77 wrote:
    .....

    I did get the bike adjusted to my weight, so not sure what the sag % is.

    Shocks lose air, so need to be checked regularly. I do mine every ride but am a bit OCD. I would also adjust slightly depending on what I plan riding. I make it a bit softer/more travel for really rough stuff. There should be an O ring on the shaft to measure sag - stick it up the end, sit on bike, get off carefully and measure the distance the O ring moves. Best to do it kitted up so your weight is close to riding conditions. Translate into a percentage, and it should be somewhere between about 20% and 30%, depending on how you want it. If no O ring, a cable tie works.

    Pointless to blow money on a new shock if you are not using the one you have correctly.
    skippy_77 wrote:
    What shock size will got on the Bossnut V2?

    What is the M M tune 190 x 51? Is that the shock size i need?

    You also need travel length - of the shock, not the bike. Tune has nothing to do with shock size. It's the specific tuning for the rebound and compression settings. MM would be medium compression and medium damping. Sounds like you'd be better off with firmer compression.

    I say with 100% confidence that for a bossnut V2 - the shock you require is 190mm eye to eye and 51mm travel .... aka 190x51. The tune that comes as standard for the bossnut is a M/M.

    For clarity: The Bossnut is 130mm of suspension travel when using a 190x51 shock (you cannot fit a longer shock, the setup wont take it).
    Bossnut V2
    Levo FSR Comp
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,601
    Missed the 51 - I was at work and kind of supposed to be working. The rest of my post stands. If the OP is not checking pressure and sag, that would be the first step before spending money, and no shock is going to work optimally if it's not done.

    Obviously goes for air forks as well.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • I'm getting 25% on the sag.
    I've topped the pressure to about 210-220psi. made very little difference. Maybe i'm just too heavy..
    I don't think the RL and RT have lock out, looking at the RockShox site, it only says open/pedal
    What is open/pedal?
    the RT3 has lockout, but slightly out of my £200 budget.
    All these shocks were made in 2014, yet they don't seem to have come down in price.
    Do they also come with a remote lockout?
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,601
    As has been explained, it's not lockout. The compression damping is firmed up in both cases. Just different words. With RS, pedal firms the shock up. It doesn't 'lock' anything.

    But it does reduce movement and bob.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

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  • robertpbrobertpb Posts: 1,866
    You need to pedal correctly, you're stomping the pedals instead of keeping your feet in a circular motion.
    Now where's that "Get Out of Crash Free Card"
  • steve_sordysteve_sordy Posts: 2,311
    skippy_77 wrote:
    I'm getting 25% on the sag.
    I've topped the pressure to about 210-220psi. made very little difference. Maybe i'm just too heavy..
    I don't think the RL and RT have lock out, looking at the RockShox site, it only says open/pedal
    What is open/pedal?
    the RT3 has lockout, but slightly out of my £200 budget.
    All these shocks were made in 2014, yet they don't seem to have come down in price.
    Do they also come with a remote lockout?

    Is that 25% sag after or before you topped the pressure up to "about 210-220psi"?

    Open/Pedal are your two positions of compression damping. Roughly speaking, "Open" has reduced compression damping and is intended for rougher trails, "Pedal" has a higher level (not "high") and is intended for smoother trails. I say "roughly" because how you have your bike set up, and to a large extent your personal preference, will depend upon which position you opt for. On my current bike, I ride nearly always in "pedal", even on the rougher stuff. The bike also has a "lockout", that I have previously said that I never use anyway.

    One of the things I did to the shock on my current bike is to add three spacers to reduce the volume of air in the shock. It took me ten mins, but once I'd done it once, I could do it again in five mins. Some call the spacers "rings" because they look like rubber O rings. You will have to reset your sag and should find you need fewer psi. What this does is to leave the small bump sensitivity slightly improved, but the shock ramps up a lot quicker. This will mean that you stay in the mid travel a lot more until you hit a really big bump. The bounce you report will be reduced too. This article from Bike Rumour will tell you more than you could possibly want to know about setting up your suspension.
    https://bikerumor.com/2014/10/30/bikeru ... -download/

    As I am absolutely NOT an all knowing bike guru, I can't tell you for certain that you can add spacers to your shock, but I don't see why not. Talk to someone like TF Tuned 01373 826800
  • skippy_77skippy_77 Posts: 35
    edited November 2018
    25% sag is with it topped up, it was 200psi, but still got 25% sag.

    The RT3 is what I'm after but way out my budget.

    What's the main differences between the RL, RC and RT models?

    Are there other manufactures like FOX, SUNTour that make rear shocks in 190x51 with lock out?
  • jamskijamski Posts: 737
    skippy_77 wrote:
    25% sag is with it topped up, it was 200psi, but still got 25% sag.

    The RT3 is what I'm after but way out my budget.

    What's the main differences between the RL, RC and RT models?

    Are there other manufactures like FOX, SUNTour that make rear shocks in 190x51 with lock out?

    I can't tell you the differences, but I can tell you that my old Monarch RL was pretty solid when 'locked'. I have a deluxe RT3 now, and I'd definitely compare it to the locked setting on that rather than the pedal.
    Daddy, Husband, Designer, Biker, Gamer, Geek
    Bird Aeris 120 | Boardman Team 650b | Boardman Pro FS | Calibre Two.two
  • So does 'LOCk' on the shock just means firm then?

    What is the MAX you can pump the shocks to and would it make a difference? I think it says 250psi on this Monarch R that I have standard.

    What other manufacturers do Rear Shocks that have LOCK/Firm setting.

    Do Suntour or FOX do a cheaper option than the RockShox RT3 or other manufacturer in 190x51.
  • JBAJBA Posts: 2,790
    edited November 2018
    If you pump the shock to maximum pressure you may as well just ride a hard tail.

    Some shocks do lock out totally. My old Stumpy has a Fox Triad II that locks out. As full sus bikes have progressed the pedal platforms have improved meaning there is now very little pedal bob so true lock out is not needed so much.

    There are quite a few Monarch RL shocks on eBay for about £180.
    “Life has been unfaithful
    And it all promised so so much”

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  • steve_sordysteve_sordy Posts: 2,311
    I was in a phase where I was asking most riders I met what tyre pressure they were on and what suspension settings. In my defence I was still relatively new to mtb, and I was genuinely interested.

    One of the guys I met (Sherwood Pines) proudly told me that his 150 mm travel full suss had tyres pumped up to the maximum and the sag set to less than 10%. I asked why he just didn't go for a rigid and have done with it. He said that he had a bad back and needed a FS!
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    skippy_77 wrote:
    I
    I don't think the RL and RT have lock out
    I’m sure the RL (Rebound and Lockout) does have lockout....
    The RT (Rebound and Threshold - for the lockout blowoff limit) has lockout as well.
    Lockout on the newer model shocks, unless there is a separate setting is designed more as a super stiff pedal platform than it used to be though.
  • I'm not sure if the RL does lock out the SRAM site says it's only Open/Pedal
    https://www.sram.com/rockshox/products/monarch-rl
    it does state Upgrade: over R:Lockout
    So not sure what that means.

    Regardless whether or not it does, I'm just after options on teh market for Shocks with either Firm or Lockout.
    The Monarch R I have as standard on my Bossnut just has a rebound, so I am just after options that I could get to upgrade from my existing shock which will give me a firmer ride or lockout with a select switch or handle bar remote.
  • robertpbrobertpb Posts: 1,866
    As Steve has already posted your best bet is to talk to, https://www.tftuned.com/

    Your shock probably needs a different setup internally to make you happy.
    Now where's that "Get Out of Crash Free Card"
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    skippy_77 wrote:
    I'm not sure if the RL does lock out the SRAM site says it's only Open/Pedal
    https://www.sram.com/rockshox/products/monarch-rl
    it does state Upgrade: over R:Lockout
    So not sure what that means.
    They now call it pedal as people didn't (still don't) understand lockout....although they still call the same function Lockout on the Monarch XX.

    It's the same as it always was, and that means a stiff pedal platform which will still open under big hits (for comfort as well as to reduce the chance of damage to rider, bike frame or shock).

    As always the letters tell you exactly what it is (and its the same for forks)
    R - Rebound
    RL - Rebound and Lockout
    RT - Rebound and lockout with adjustable opening Threshold
    RT3 - Rebound and lockout with 3 positions of Threshold - XX is effectively an RT3 with the X-loc remote.
    For forks you can add RCT3 which has a fixed rate Compression damper to the RT3 by using a second damper in series.
  • steve_sordysteve_sordy Posts: 2,311
    I don't know which shock is on your bike as standard, but can the air spring be tuned? If you are a heavy guy then you may benefit from reducing the air volume inside the shock. I have done this to Fox shocks and to Rockshox ones and it is an easy and quick thing to do. The first time you do it might take a while as you keep second guessing yourself and checking the instructions. But the second time will be a lot quicker.

    When I was tuning my Fox shock, the first one took 10 mins in the garage, the second time was trailside and took less than 5 mins.

    The impact is that the shock (or the fork if you do it to the fork) ramps up a lot sooner and you get a lot more support. ie you will need a bigger impact to get past the mid point on the shock and progressively bigger to go further up the shock, but the shock still rides well in the lower travel zone. It stops the shock from diving on the drops.

    I have always found this guide from Bike Rumour to be very good.

    https://bikerumor.com/2014/10/30/bikeru ... -download/
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