Zwift-New York

sniper68
sniper68 Posts: 2,910
Why Zwift..WHY?
Zwift has launched its latest world based in New York City, which the brand is calling its most ambitious world to date.
The new map, which was leaked just a few days ago, has been in development since 2017 and is set 100 years in the future and includes suspended glass roads in between the city’s famous sky scrapers. The new world is designed to deliver what Zwift calls a “futuristic vision of the city and signifies the company’s biggest move to ‘gamify’ the training experience yet”.
According to the brand, the new world was deliberately centred around Central Park, home to many of the city’s thousands of road cyclists, where Zwifter’s will be able to ride a 9.7km loop that skirts famous landmarks such as the Guggenheim, the Met, the El Dorado Hotel and the Tavern on the Green
Read more at http://forums.roadcyclinguk.com/showthr ... vTX3qoD.99
Set 100 years in the future.WHY?
Maybe Zwift should spend it's $$$$$Billions actually replicating more real world routes rather than pretend rubbish!
Do cyclists really want a video-game format or a training programme?
Watopia is pushing it(I get that was Zwifts thing though) but this is getting ridiculous.By all means do a New York route(s) but at least keep it closer to reality!I'll stick to London,Innsbruck and Richmond....or RGT.

Comments

  • Why does it matter? It's a training platform not a video game, as you say so yourself.
  • sniper68
    sniper68 Posts: 2,910
    Why does it matter? It's a training platform not a video game, as you say so yourself.
    So why try to make it a Video Game?
    100 years in the future?Glass tunnels suspended up in the air?
    Someone mentioned seeing a Bigfoot on Zwifts Alpe d‘Huez !?
    The money could be better spent improving the current format rather than wasting it on futuristic worlds and mythical creatures.
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    If you are wanting proper structured training, best thing you can do is ditch Zwift.
    I ran it for nearly 2 years until recently.
    The workout mode was intensely boring.
    The races are bad training anyways, but they have not evolved in the sense they are predictable. It is a mass market production - hence what yu see.

    GCN videos off Youtube are getting me into winter training mode .
    Trainer Road , if you can stick the blue bar of death, works
    Sufferfest , so so with its subscription model.
    Rouvy... just a bit weird, but at least it works proper on Android and not just just pampering to the more money than sense Apple crowd.
  • Sniper68 wrote:
    Why Zwift..WHY?
    Zwift has launched its latest world based in New York City, which the brand is calling its most ambitious world to date.
    The new map, which was leaked just a few days ago, has been in development since 2017 and is set 100 years in the future and includes suspended glass roads in between the city’s famous sky scrapers. The new world is designed to deliver what Zwift calls a “futuristic vision of the city and signifies the company’s biggest move to ‘gamify’ the training experience yet”.
    According to the brand, the new world was deliberately centred around Central Park, home to many of the city’s thousands of road cyclists, where Zwifter’s will be able to ride a 9.7km loop that skirts famous landmarks such as the Guggenheim, the Met, the El Dorado Hotel and the Tavern on the Green
    Read more at http://forums.roadcyclinguk.com/showthr ... vTX3qoD.99
    Set 100 years in the future.WHY?
    Maybe Zwift should spend it's $$$$$Billions actually replicating more real world routes rather than pretend rubbish!
    Do cyclists really want a video-game format or a training programme?
    Watopia is pushing it(I get that was Zwifts thing though) but this is getting ridiculous.By all means do a New York route(s) but at least keep it closer to reality!I'll stick to London,Innsbruck and Richmond....or RGT.


    Stop moaning. It’s on a computer. It’s not real. It’s great marketing. The volcano on Wattopia probably isn’t real either :(
  • To answer the OP’s question, a large number of cyclists do indeed want a video game format. Golden rule of the internet - you do not necessarily represent the many.

    To add: having done a session on this course today, this is destined to be the next Richmond. Meh and double meh.
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,467
    The fantasy / video game element is the best thing about Zwift - why have a poor simulation of somethng real when the great advantage of a VR environment is that you don't need to be constrained by reality?

    Indoor training is always one step away from being deathly tedious, anything that relieves the potential boredom by adding another dimension to it is highly welcome in my book.

    That said, having also done a session today I agree with barongreenback, the NYC world is highly disappoinitng given the hype. There's not much visual variety, it's either a road through the park with trees on either side or the glass roads. I've only done the Kickerbocker route so far though, maybe some of the others are more fun. Was expecting some sort of helter-skelter spiraling around the Empire State building or something but it's all set within the park. Maybe future extensions will add a lot more.

    Worst thing from my PoV is there's no real climbing to speak of, the so-called KOM is a horrible four minute lumpy thing with 14% ramps alternating with flat bits, no opportunity to get into a proper climbing rythm.

    I'm increasingly liking BigRingVR - they've just added Sa Colobra and the Madonna del Ghisallo, both of which are great for FTP training. The former gives you a great 35/40mins at FTP session while the latter gives you 20mins plus 7mins-ish climbs with a rest inbetween, which you can do at quite a bit over FTP.
  • sniper68
    sniper68 Posts: 2,910
    Jonclare wrote:
    Stop moaning. It’s on a computer. It’s not real. It’s great marketing. The volcano on Wattopia probably isn’t real either :(
    Which is why I don't ride Watopia/Volcano.My son enjoys it but he's 11.He'll probably like NY too :lol:
    I get what Zwift are doing but RGT seem to have the better ideas IMO.At least with Zwift hacks I don't have to be forced into riding NY 8)
    neeb wrote:
    I'm increasingly liking BigRingVR - they've just added Sa Colobra and the Madonna del Ghisallo, both of which are great for FTP training. The former gives you a great 35/40mins at FTP session while the latter gives you 20mins plus 7mins-ish climbs with a rest inbetween, which you can do at quite a bit over FTP.
    I tried BRVR last Winter but it was a bit glitchy.I might have to look at it again and keep Zwift for my lad.I originally had a Bkool trainer which came with their Video training but that was also glitchy.
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,467
    Sniper68 wrote:
    I tried BRVR last Winter but it was a bit glitchy.I might have to look at it again and keep Zwift for my lad.I originally had a Bkool trainer which came with their Video training but that was also glitchy.
    Works very well for me now.

    I've always been a fan of long simulated climbs for winter FTP training. I can force myself to do 40-45mins continuously at actual FTP whereas I'd just give up after 30mins spinning on the "flat". I don't know what it is exactly, maybe a combination of the increased resistance that encourages alternating out-of-the-saddle and spinning and the simulation which makes you believe that you are actually climbing and that that out-of-the-saddle efforts are appropriate.. And the fact that the hill has a summit as a psychological goal, combined with the knowledge that if you were climbing the real thing the effort required would be almost identical. I find that the fitness gains from this translate quite well to riding on the flat in the real world too - if I can put out X watts for 20-odd minutes on a simulated climb I can do the same in a flat 10 mile TT and pace myself appropriately (although I'd find it hard to put out the same power for 20mins on simulated flat course).

    I was riding up simulations of Sa Colobra and Madonna del Ghisallo more than 10 years ago on the Tacx RLVs with a Tacx Fortius trainer. I love that I can now ride these same hills again on BigRingVR. You notice when people have re-painted their front gates between the videos being filmed.. ;-)

    I'm always searching for climbs that have a relatively constant gradient (some slight variation but no flat bits or downhills) and last for either around 40 mins or around 20 mins (with the latter it's good to have two hills one after the other to simulate something like a 2x20 or a 1x20 followed by a 1x10). The problem with Zwift is that there is nothing like this in any of the worlds - I do like the forward KOM in Watopia which provides a solid 20mins+ effort (although the flattish bit on the bridge is highly annoying), followed by the shorter and steeper ascent up to the radio tower, but there is nothing that lasts a continuous 40 mins. I do Alpe du Zwift every now and again but it's just a little too long to do at full FTP on a regular basis and I can't force myself to stop before the top.. ;-) The slight competitive element in Zwift is motivting however - it there's someone else who's going at around the same w/kg it's sometimes fun to chase them down / race them to the top.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    I quite like the volcano and the glass tunnels on zwift. It's the benefits of it that gets me on it. Not on the offchance that I see a dolphin swimming past. Don't think too much about it.

    Anyway with your name Mr Sniper - I thought you'd be well up for riding round gun ridden New York... ;-)
    (Joke !)
  • sniper68
    sniper68 Posts: 2,910
    cougie wrote:
    Anyway with your name Mr Sniper - I thought you'd be well up for riding round gun ridden New York... ;-)
    (Joke !)
    :P
    Cancelled Zwift and decided to give BigRing VR another go.My son can use it too as you can now have up to three family members on one account 8) He likes the climbs on RoadGrandTours so we'll keep that too and I'm sure he'll enjoy BigRingVR 8) Cheaper than Zwift too.
  • dabber
    dabber Posts: 1,928
    Sniper68 wrote:
    cougie wrote:
    Anyway with your name Mr Sniper - I thought you'd be well up for riding round gun ridden New York... ;-)
    (Joke !)
    :P
    Cancelled Zwift and decided to give BigRing VR another go.My son can use it too as you can now have up to three family members on one account 8) He likes the climbs on RoadGrandTours so we'll keep that too and I'm sure he'll enjoy BigRingVR 8) Cheaper than Zwift too.

    I hope you get on well with BRVR, new rides and enhancements coming all the time. If you do run into any problems you should contact them as they are always most responsive and helpful.
    “You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”

    Wilier Cento Uno SR/Wilier Mortirolo/Specialized Roubaix Comp/Kona Hei Hei/Calibre Bossnut
  • sniper68
    sniper68 Posts: 2,910
    Someone has brought Rouvy to my attention.
    I've downloaded the 2 week trial before I hit subscribe on BRVR.
    Both are similarly priced and seem to offer the same.
  • VamP
    VamP Posts: 674
    Zwift for some reasons brings out the moaner in people.

    As a platform it is decent but not prefect. As a community it is unrivaled. If you don't get into the group ride/racing scene, then you're probably missing 90% of what Zwift is about.

    All the courses have good and bad features, it's up to you what you make of them. If it's too make-believe for you, then you're probably better off with Rouvy.

    I like New York. I also like the new draft algorithm that KISS races are trialing. It still isn't perfect but it's better than before.

    Someone said above that the racing isn't good training. I am surprised at this, I am finding it effective.
  • sniper68
    sniper68 Posts: 2,910
    VamP wrote:
    As a platform it is decent but not prefect. As a community it is unrivaled. If you don't get into the group ride/racing scene, then you're probably missing 90% of what Zwift is about..
    I tried group rides and a couple of races but didn't really get it.If I want to race(and I don't) I'd enter a crit or something.I do group rides with my CCs so don't really get why I'd want to on the turbo?It's just not the same and not what TT is about for me!?I rarely followed the Zwift calendar anyway as I didn't particularly like Watopia.It's done now anyway,60% increase in subs from next month was the final nail in the coffin for me.
  • I'm the complete opposite - I don't understand why they would want to try to replicate real world environments when you can build whatever you want.

    I also can't see the appeal of the group rides on there, but they obviously provide motivation for some people, and the races are brilliant training for people like me who push themselves that bit further with that motivation. I think it's good, but obviously, if you are using it in erg mode for structured training, it won't give you anything much over and above any other platform.
  • alex222
    alex222 Posts: 598
    I'm the complete opposite - I don't understand why they would want to try to replicate real world environments when you can build whatever you want.

    I also can't see the appeal of the group rides on there, but they obviously provide motivation for some people, and the races are brilliant training for people like me who push themselves that bit further with that motivation. I think it's good, but obviously, if you are using it in erg mode for structured training, it won't give you anything much over and above any other platform.
    This is all in line with my experience.
    I find the racing great fun, and if it wasn't for that feature I doubt I would be on Zwift.
    I don't doubt for a moment that it is nothing like real racing, but as I am competitive it makes getting on the turbo a more enjoyable experience, pushing me to go harder.
    Haven't managed to get on the New York course yet, but I think it is good they are trying something different.
  • supermurph09
    supermurph09 Posts: 2,471
    I used Zwift on and off over a period of about 12 months, I honestly don't think I paid any attention to the surroundings, I surely can't be alone in this? All I was ever focused on were power numbers when training and chewing the stem when doing any of the races.

    It's obviously a great tool but the graphics just don't do anything for me at all, in fact if I had any emotion about them I would say they were terrible which is probably why I stopped looking.
  • VamP
    VamP Posts: 674
    Alex222 wrote:
    I don't doubt for a moment that it is nothing like real racing, but ...


    Actually, it's quite a lot like real racing. The in-game physics is not quite right, and a number of differences stem form that, plus you have the flyers and weight dopers cruising at 6w/kg all day, so that is also a bit weird, but once you have been racing there for a while you kind of know who's for real and who isn't.

    Real racing is more on-off, and of course it's real so you have to actually ride the bike (obvs), and be good at positioning, but in terms of involvement and effort it's not far off the real thing. Real racing is also more expensive, time consuming and with real consequences.

    For people like me who are returning from injury and can't race outside, Zwift is a life saver. Probably best to think of it as another discipline, alongside road, TT, CX, track etc.

    The new draft algorithm has moved things in the right direction, the next thing that would really improve the gameplay would be enforced braking for corners. This is rumoured to be in the pipeline.
  • Canceled Zwift last week.

    I originally subscribed just thinking it might make longer indoor workouts more tolerable but turns out Netflix is the answer to that. Fix power at 70%. Start movie or TV show. Enjoy.

    For intervals, I guess I'm one of those weirdos who just performs fixed power repeats. Don't mind them at all and insist on the direct translation to time at intensity. And I know what is more and what is less and always have a reference regarding what I should be able to do so I can understand impact of fatigue, shorter recovery prior, harder workout prior, life stress, etc. Variability = Bad. Consistency = Good.
  • dannbodge
    dannbodge Posts: 1,152
    I was going to do the Tour of New York events until I saw they were at 6 and 8pm.
    Had a moan on the Zwift Facebook group and Eric Min (CEO) got them to add a 7pm start for each one for me :lol:
  • Specifically about the NYC route – it looks ideal for races. It has loads of places where surges in power will cause packs to split. I personally would prefer to see much longer climbs such as at Innsbruck or Watopia.

    I agree that there may be too much many distractions from riding. But that is better than the long, boring real rides such as RGT Ventoux which turn what is a spectacular ride in real life into a monotonous grind. Distractions are needed.
  • cgfw201
    cgfw201 Posts: 674
    Quite like it as an alternative, but now there’s so many courses out there they really need to introduce manual course-selection at launch. My favourite thing to do on there is still smashing up the Zwift KOM once or twice in a session for a really tough 20*2 (ish) effort. Now there’s London, Richmond, Innsbruck and NYC on the rotation it seems whatever I fancy doing that day isn’t necessarily available.

    Have tried that manual course selection 3rd party app thingy but it screwed up the link to Strava & Training Peaks for me.

    No complaints about making some non-real-world additions to the courses, sounds like some people would rather be stuck in a taxi traffic jam than have the chance to do a 5 minute climb from Central Park. Get over it.
  • djrikki
    djrikki Posts: 83
    As it's not cold yet here in the Europe I haven't booted up Zwift since March and we all know how great this year has been for weather.

    Given I have got myself a much more capable Mac since then I am actually quite looking forward to residing myself into the garage or the conservatory for no more than 2 months of the year.

    As for moaning about New York on Zwift... it's all pretend on Zwift anyway! If you want the real thing your just going to have to save up to go there... it's not a simulator! Alternatively wrap up warm and step outside your door.
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    I think you are underestimating the capacity of the Zwift crowd to believe that being on Zwift is not pretend at all.
  • VamP
    VamP Posts: 674
    What do you mean it's pretend?
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    djrikki wrote:
    As it's not cold yet here in the Europe I haven't booted up Zwift since March and we all know how great this year has been for weather.

    You jinxed the weather ! Bloody freeeeezing here today !
  • sniper68
    sniper68 Posts: 2,910
    djrikki wrote:

    As for moaning about New York on Zwift... it's all pretend on Zwift anyway! If you want the real thing your just going to have to save up to go there... it's not a simulator! Alternatively wrap up warm and step outside your door.
    I do....which probably explains the why on checking I found out I hadn’t ridden on Zwift since March.....2017.
    At least the boy got some use out if it.
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,919
    I can't really imagine a worse place to cycle than a big city, and whilst they can obviously get rid of the traffic, the terrain just isn't very exciting is it? It's a shame they can't use the blank canvas being a virtual world gives them to try and at least replicate some of the more exciting places to ride a bike rather than creating yet another city-based world.
  • I rejoined Zwift the other night...and OMG as the kids say...New York is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo boring (for me, anyway).

    Just a bunch of trees in a park? What am I missing? Yeah I went up in the sky tube thing...but while it was cool to do Central Park...apart from the odd skyscraper in the background it could be anywhere. What about having people cycle the streets like with London? Go across a bridge or two? Circle the statue of liberty and so on! :)

    Really underwhelmed at the mo, maybe it'll grow on me...