e-bikes getting more powerful

jgsi

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/prod ... tts-396471

I am not convinced that they should continue to be allowable on cycle paths or (as I keep saying) around here, normal footpaths divided into 2, by lazy councils hitting 'targets'.
Thats my personal opinion after a few too many close passes by e bikes well in excess of 20mph on said footpaths (sorry shared paths)

lettingthedaysgoby

I thought ebikes are limited to 15mph ish?

jgsi

It is apparently very easy to de-restrict them . Let's be honest, that game for mopeds etc has been going on for decades.

However, for e-bikes impossible to 'police' .

PhilipPirrip

lettingthedaysgoby wrote:

I thought ebikes are limited to 15mph ish?

As the article says the 25kmh limit will remain even with these more powerful motors although licensing is required (I don't know how that'll work). Current 250 watt motors are fine for a person on a bike but for laden cargo bikes the extra power makes sense.

The issue the OP raises is about those who use off-road or after-market kits that do not comply with on road regulations that will be the problem.

ollie_cr80

I rode a specialised vado 4.0 at the weekend.
Was plenty powerful and i thought the limit was reasonable.

Why anyone would need to go faster in the roads is beyond me (for personal safety, let alone others).
Off road i get the demand though.

I guess on the road people need to be thinking about the tougher laws for cyclists causing injuries to others and what having a delimited ebike would mean in those circumstances...

slowbike

Do we really need laws for each and every variation on a theme?

What's the difference between an e-bike doing 20mph+ or a non-assist bike doing the same? It's down to the capability of the rider. Ok - it tends to be more experienced riders capable of doing 20+mph for any time, but youths can easily do that anyway.

What you need is a law for "common sense" ... unfortunately it seems rather lacking in many .... as has always been the case.

fenix

Once you derestrict the e bikes - whats the difference between those and a moped ?

If we get a bad press now - imgine the crap coming the way of 'cyclists' once an ebike mows someone down.

I'm fine with the current limits. Any higher and its a risk to everyone.

kingstongraham

Slowbike wrote:

What's the difference between an e-bike doing 20mph+ or a non-assist bike doing the same? It's down to the capability of the rider. Ok - it tends to be more experienced riders capable of doing 20+mph for any time, but youths can easily do that anyway.

This is my concern - there's a potential for a law of unintended consequences here. Consider the impact if all cyclists riding over 15mph had to have their bike licensed/wear properly protective helmets/etc.

The start point of a campaign for legislation will be some idiot on an unlicensed motorbike causing an accident because they don't know what they are doing. And if you think there isn't any difference between riding a motorbike at those speeds and a normal bike, then why have different requirements?

slowbike

assuming there is already a law on the capabilities of an e-bike - I don't think we need any further laws - what we need is enforcement - and for that enforcement to be publicised - therefore discouraging people from riding like idiots - assisted or not...

Killerclown

Some people will modify their stock e bike motors and control systems, to enable them to go faster than they are legally allowed to. Unfortunately it’s very difficult to police, so I fear we’ll have to get used to e-bikes with illegal modifications, extracting the urine.

slowbike

Killerclown wrote:

Some people will modify their stock e bike motors and control systems, to enable them to go faster than they are legally allowed to. Unfortunately it’s very difficult to police, so I fear we’ll have to get used to e-bikes with illegal modifications, extracting the urine.

Quite frankly - if they're ridden sensibly then I'm not bothered if they can deliver 500w+

Legislation and rules are only needed when people don't consider the effect they're having on others.

fenix

LOL - If they're ridden sensibly.

Check out the youtube clips of nutters doing about 50mph on their self built e bikes....

slowbike

Fenix wrote:

LOL - If they're ridden sensibly.

Check out the youtube clips of nutters doing about 50mph on their self built e bikes....

and a new law would make any difference?

fenix

What 'new' law ?

There is already a law for e bikes. Max powered to 15.5mph. Simple.

slowbike

Fenix wrote:

What 'new' law ?

There is already a law for e bikes. Max powered to 15.5mph. Simple.

yup - that'll do

I was responding to (what I took to be) the general direction of de-restriction - and limiting the power of e-bikes allowed on cycle paths ...

PhilipPirrip

Even on my modest conversion kit it only took a little reading to work out how to get more speed -24mph on the workstand - by altering a couple of settings through the lcd display.

The problem is many of the components in such conversion kits are of a generic design that can be electronically tailored to meet the needs of either the EU or US, on or off road and therefore can be easily altered or de-restricted from the control panel or to which higher voltage batteries or larger motors could be added.

That's aside from the kits that are illegall for EU road use from the outset.

4username20

I have to agree with the OP on this one. I think e-bikes are okay for now, but should they continue to increase the power of them more and more, then I believe they should be limited to road-use only. It gets to a certain point where they just shouldn't be allowed on the path.

jgsi

Just a thought, if you did have an 'ueber' Ebike, you could ride almost 100% in primary despite the lack of number plate.
It might give the MGIF crowd a run for their money.

fenix

If it's unrestricted then you need a licence, insurance, numberplate and helmet...

cycleclinic

shut down any retailer that sells such a kit or does any work on a de restricted bike or modifies it and place big fines on the customer and retailer. It's not impossible to police.

Or classify any bike with an motor output above 250w as a moped. That would be a neat solution as then all laws applying to mopeds then apply.

It needs policing like anything else or we will end up with all bikes needing licence plates. Then I will move abroad to somewhere sensible.

kingstongraham

thecycleclinic wrote:

Or classify any bike with an motor output above 250w as a moped. That would be a neat solution as then all laws applying to mopeds then apply.

This is already the case.

bompington

In Copenhagen this month I noticed a few e-bikes that looked (frame and wheels) somewhere between bikes and mopeds, and I would guess that they were faster too: I did hear that there has been a recent change in the law to allow faster e-bikes there.
Seems like a sensible option, but the question is whether they should be allowed in bike lanes - I don't think mopeds are (unlike NL). There has to be a limit somewhere...

The Rookie

Some EU countries already allow higher powered e-bikes, they are registered so the registration plate is a bit of a giveaway, they also have restrictions on how and where they can be used but that is a national decision anyway, rules already differ across the EU with respect to usage of bikes (pedal only or the 250W assisted cycles).

ollie_cr80

My brother bought a Specialized Vado 4.0 a few weeks back.
It is great fun, and smashes all of the hills around highgate.
You can actually get to a meeting in town without needing a shower on arrival.

But why would anyone need more power on the road?
This is a heavy bike and already zips past all the road bikes on the road.

It just seems a waste to have any more power unless its for off road use.
Surely the Battery life is more important that the total power?

Killerclown

There are a few ( quite obvious) road bikes being used with illegally powerful motors around. However there are plenty of e bikes who’s motors haven’t been modded about too. Unfortunately, people who want to ride the illegal ones don’t often seem to have anything done about it by plod, so there’s no deterrent really.

jgsi

The law is specific.
The policing of it is unspecific.

I suppose it'll take someone moto'd up to wipe out a meandering (as they do) pedestrian before it becomes national rantable news. It will happen.

Killerclown

JGSI wrote:

The law is specific.
The policing of it is unspecific.

I suppose it'll take someone moto'd up to wipe out a meandering (as they do) pedestrian before it becomes national rantable news. It will happen.

Very true.

The Rookie

ollie_cr80 wrote:

This is a heavy bike and already zips past all the road bikes on the road.

I doubt it, anyone reasonably fit, unless its fairly hilly, can average over 15.5mph on a roadie, I certainly can on my Hybrid and frequently pass an (the same) e-bike on my commute although he has temporarily got me back on an uphill occasionally. Maybe you can zip past the slow ones you catch up with?

I even did a 60km ride with a bunch or roadies and managed to average 17mph on an MTB - once!

ollie_cr80

Yes it was quite hilly, and on the flats you can pull away from the vado, but there's not much in it on a decent downhill gradient and all the time you gain on the flats is sapped away on the uphills.
I was honestly really surprised. Im no pro, in fact im definitely a rookie but no one was overtaking us.
Perhaps on a more flat route then there would be a bigger difference, but for me, the option to arrive after a 10 mile ride at a meeting without a sweaty back is a real plus point of these, and i just dont think they need to be any faster...(for that purpose)

WTF

Guy passed me on one hitting about 30mph +. Bring all the laws you want out but cant see it making much, if any, difference as there is not the resources to enforce it.

cougie

He'll probably wipe himself out before too long.