Best way to turn Italian steel frame with Campagnolo into a 50/34 compact
I am wanting to change my 10-speed Italian steel frame from a 53/39 into a compact 50/34 (or 50/36), as the gearing is just too high for me. (Although I have put up with it for 8 years.)
This seems to be extremely difficult to do.
The bike is fitted with Record 53/39 cranks with 130 BCD; the mechs front and rear are Campag; the shifters are 10-speed Centaur and I have just made a new rear wheel on a Campag Record hub.
The frame is from 1997, dearly loved and very comfortable. It is not a retro obsessive bike, but I do want the cranks to be silver / metal, not black.
So, I am significantly invested in Campag on this bike.
The 53/39 Record cranks are on a square tapered 102mm Chorus BB. The fit and chainline are perfect.
The options seem to be:
1/ Buy a Stronglite / TA Carmina square tapered Shimano 50/34 and get another BB. Although I have a spare Centaur 111mm BB and two non-cartridge 115 Italian thread BBs, so I could attempt a mix.
2/ Stick with Campagnolo by fitting UltraTorque cranks and BB. But will these work well with a steel frame in terms of shifting and chainline? If it were a certainty that the chainline would be good, I would opt for this. The look of modern cranks, so long as they are silver/metal in colour is not important.
3/ Fit a Shimano 105 Hollow tech set of cranks, or similar, with Italian threaded BB. The advantage will be cost, ease and availability over Campagnolo, but what will happen to the chainline? Looking at my Shimano Hollowtech BB on a different bike, the BB adds considerable bulk to the BB area: ie will push the cranks out further.
I am going round and round with this, with no easy answers.
A major reservation is that the 53/39 Record set-up fits and shifts perfectly. I don’t want to spend a lot of money on new cranks that are then considerably worse in terms of fit.
(Someone younger is going to say just get personally fitter and put up with the 53/39. But I have done that enough. I need less tiring gearing.)
This seems to be extremely difficult to do.
The bike is fitted with Record 53/39 cranks with 130 BCD; the mechs front and rear are Campag; the shifters are 10-speed Centaur and I have just made a new rear wheel on a Campag Record hub.
The frame is from 1997, dearly loved and very comfortable. It is not a retro obsessive bike, but I do want the cranks to be silver / metal, not black.
So, I am significantly invested in Campag on this bike.
The 53/39 Record cranks are on a square tapered 102mm Chorus BB. The fit and chainline are perfect.
The options seem to be:
1/ Buy a Stronglite / TA Carmina square tapered Shimano 50/34 and get another BB. Although I have a spare Centaur 111mm BB and two non-cartridge 115 Italian thread BBs, so I could attempt a mix.
2/ Stick with Campagnolo by fitting UltraTorque cranks and BB. But will these work well with a steel frame in terms of shifting and chainline? If it were a certainty that the chainline would be good, I would opt for this. The look of modern cranks, so long as they are silver/metal in colour is not important.
3/ Fit a Shimano 105 Hollow tech set of cranks, or similar, with Italian threaded BB. The advantage will be cost, ease and availability over Campagnolo, but what will happen to the chainline? Looking at my Shimano Hollowtech BB on a different bike, the BB adds considerable bulk to the BB area: ie will push the cranks out further.
I am going round and round with this, with no easy answers.
A major reservation is that the 53/39 Record set-up fits and shifts perfectly. I don’t want to spend a lot of money on new cranks that are then considerably worse in terms of fit.
(Someone younger is going to say just get personally fitter and put up with the 53/39. But I have done that enough. I need less tiring gearing.)
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Just put a bigger cassette on the back.0
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theres a shop over near Reading that know everything thats worth knowing about Older and retro italian bikes and campag.
they do loads of stuff like this and refurbs. https://www.pankhurstcycles.co.uk/index.html
The challenge i guess is to buy the minimal parts that allow you to preserve the feel of the bike, the colours and the elegance. I know naff all about campag but those guys salivate over this sort of task.0 -
bice wrote:3/ Fit a Shimano 105 Hollow tech set of cranks, or similar, with Italian threaded BB. The advantage will be cost, ease and availability over Campagnolo, but what will happen to the chainline? Looking at my Shimano Hollowtech BB on a different bike, the BB adds considerable bulk to the BB area: ie will push the cranks out further.
Chainline will not be affected. The wider BB area is compensated by a concave spider and a narrower profile for the crank arms.0 -
darkhairedlord wrote:Just put a bigger cassette on the back.
Done that. Helped a bit. But after 40 miles at brisk club pace, it is not enough.
I am still turning 53T and 39T on hills, while others are fresher and stronger on 50Ts: one even rides 48T.
After 50 miles, I flag. Although it is fine when I ride long distances by myself.0 -
bice wrote:darkhairedlord wrote:Just put a bigger cassette on the back.
Done that. Helped a bit. But after 40 miles at brisk club pace, it is not enough.
I am still turning 53T and 39T on hills, while others are fresher and stronger on 50Ts: one even rides 48T.
After 50 miles, I flag. Although it is fine when I ride long distances by myself.
What cassette are you running now? If it's particularly wide (say, 12-29 or 12-30, you may also need a medium-cage derailleur if going to a compact chainring setup. Using a short cage derailleur means that you'll get rubbing in the small-small combination from having to run too long of a chain (though this is not a fatal flaw, just something to be conscious of if you do this).
Your chainline won't change with modern cranks. Something like an older 10-speed Centaur CT Ultratorque crank would be a good visual fit, although they're a little hard to find now. CT refers to compact in the earlier Ultratorque days (2006-2009ish). The pic below is not the CT version, but it looks the same, but with smaller rings.
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If you go down the Centaur UltraTorque route you will have to change your BB to suite which will be more expense.
You can pick up an unbranded square taper compact chainset from SJS Cycles for £25
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chainsets/a ... 34t-175mm/
That is the 175mm crank length but they do a 170mm as well if that's what you prefer.
At that price it's worth giving it a go plus there's no need to renew the BB0 -
It's a bit more money than the SJS option but Spa do a huge range of chainsets and chainrings, and are excellent value in my experience, eg this one with decent Zicral chainrings for £65:
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p30 ... cral-Rings
I ran a chainset similar to the SJS one for a couple of months, which was fine until the steel chainring folded itself over quite impressively when I tried to pull away from the lights - so although those cranks are probably fine the chainrings might only be fit for the bin.0 -
bice wrote:darkhairedlord wrote:Just put a bigger cassette on the back.
Done that. Helped a bit. But after 40 miles at brisk club pace, it is not enough.
I am still turning 53T and 39T on hills, while others are fresher and stronger on 50Ts: one even rides 48T.
After 50 miles, I flag. Although it is fine when I ride long distances by myself.
If you are finding that others are faster riding 48s or 50s this suggests riding at a reasonable speed on flattish terrain. In which case changing your gearing won't help - you still have to produce the watts.
If it is steeper hills that are the problem and you are grinding up them at very low cadence then easier gearing may help.....FFS! Harden up and grow a pair
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The SJS option for £25 looks a no-brainer.0
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raisinberry777 wrote:bice wrote:darkhairedlord wrote:Just put a bigger cassette on the back.
Done that. Helped a bit. But after 40 miles at brisk club pace, it is not enough.
I am still turning 53T and 39T on hills, while others are fresher and stronger on 50Ts: one even rides 48T.
After 50 miles, I flag. Although it is fine when I ride long distances by myself.
What cassette are you running now? If it's particularly wide (say, 12-29 or 12-30, you may also need a medium-cage derailleur if going to a compact chainring setup. Using a short cage derailleur means that you'll get rubbing in the small-small combination from having to run too long of a chain (though this is not a fatal flaw, just something to be conscious of if you do this).
Your chainline won't change with modern cranks. Something like an older 10-speed Centaur CT Ultratorque crank would be a good visual fit, although they're a little hard to find now. CT refers to compact in the earlier Ultratorque days (2006-2009ish). The pic below is not the CT version, but it looks the same, but with smaller rings.
Great responses. Thanks, all.
This might be the way to go. I will need an UltraTorque BB. But it keeps everything Campag, which might be simpler.
The square tapered chain rings from Spa also look a good option.
I think the cheaper unbranded cranks from SJS are - on this occasion - a bit too economic.
I have a long (perhaps called medium) rear mech and a 12-29 or 12-30 cassette (I am travelling, and have forgotten).
I regularly use two bikes: a Trek 1.7 triple Shimano, alloy / carbon forks weighing 9.4 kilos and this one, my favourite, which weighs 10.3 kilos (water, bag are extra). I'm 72 kilos.
I can do 100 miles on it at my own pace, but get worn out at some pace. I don't on the Trek.0 -
arlowood wrote:If you go down the Centaur UltraTorque route you will have to change your BB to suite which will be more expense.
You can pick up an unbranded square taper compact chainset from SJS Cycles for £25
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chainsets/a ... 34t-175mm/
That is the 175mm crank length but they do a 170mm as well if that's what you prefer.
At that price it's worth giving it a go plus there's no need to renew the BB
That's not correct - the SJS crankset is not compatible with a Campagnolo Chorus/Record square taper bottom bracket, as it requires both a different taper and a different length. Chorus/Record square taper bottom brackets are 102mm and an ISO taper. The required bottom bracket for the SJS crankset is 110mm and a JIS taper.0 -
bice wrote:I am wanting to change my 10-speed Italian steel frame from a 53/39 into a compact 50/34 (or 50/36), as the gearing is just too high for me. (Although I have put up with it for 8 years.)
The neatest option is:
2/ Stick with Campagnolo by fitting UltraTorque cranks and BB.
Chainline should be the same. Just drop the FD a bit. As already suggested, the silver stuff looks nicely retro.
I struggled for a while with a 53/39 chainset but I was getting older faster than I was getting stronger...0 -
Just hang onto the team car (or any car if yours isn't in Proximity.0
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if you are buy a new outer chainring for your existing chainset, be aware that campag is 135bcd, not 130bcd.Colnago Addict!0
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darkhairedlord wrote:Just hang onto the team car (or any car if yours isn't in Proximity.
Motorbikes are good too
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The important thing to look for is Ultratorque, not Powertorque so you are looking for NOS.
I found one here but they will get rarer.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-CAMPAGNO ... SwWKtUu7tGThe above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
What he ^ said - and you could polish them. Then you couldn't distinguish them from Chorus or similar.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
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Tell me about it! 1-1/2 years ago I was looking for 11 speed 5 spoke compact in silver.
Had to get bloody powertorque Athena, and even that is getting rare. Stupid 4 spoke, stupid.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Sugino still make good quality silver square taper cranks with 110BCD. e.g. https://www.suginoltd.co.jp/us/products/touring/mighty.html.
TA also: https://specialites-ta.com/pedalier/aaxecarre/paire-de-manivelles/paire-de-manivelles-carmina-compact.html.0 -
^^^^ Likes ^^^^
Just had to jump to a new page. Didn’t it? The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0
