Vuelta 2018 A bit shite?

hypster

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Nope.

Too many similar, "wall" type finishes.
The concept of the uber-steep climb has lost it's sheen for me.
They are all about survival, very little about attacking.
So we get just a hard grind, with minuscule time gaps.
Which leads me to my other moan: why is it essential that time gaps between GC riders remain small?
They weren't small in the Giro and look what happened there.

ddraver wrote:

Good thing about Vuelta - All (most of) the trolls are bored by September

Bad thing about Vuelta - a lot of genuine fans are too...

Yup.
Have to admit to a touch of that, myself.

+1

alanparsons

Pross wrote:

alanparsons wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Pretty much what the title says is this years vuelta a snore fest?

I think it is a far more interesting race than the TdF, far less predictable on a daily basis, there is no way yesterdays breakaway would have succeeded in France.
The GC is still very close and the real shake up stage is still to come tomorrow (sat), 6 categorized climbs in under 100km.
The absence of some of the big hitters (Froome,Dumoulin,Bardet) along with Quintana's lack of form/ability has made it far more interesting to me.
I have been watching the stages live most days, the only downside being Kirby's inane drivel.

Was the Tour predictable this year? How many people predicted that Froome's domestique would win? Even in the final week no-one was sure if Thomas would have the physical and mental ability to hold on and I doubt anyone expected him to win back to back mountain stages. It seems like a bit of stereotyping / confirmation bias to call it predictable.

Please read what I wrote, I did not say the TdF was predictable only that the Vuelta is less so and therefore more interesting to ME.

supermurph09

Is there such thing as the race being too close?

I'm enjoying it, mainly because I like Valverde and Yates but it's almost like they are too close and only having to watch each other and wait as opposed to constantly being battered like the Sky train might tend to do. It's pretty clear from interviews that Valverde has just bided his time, done his domestique duties and now can be let off the leash for the last 2 climbing days. (I type this not knowing what's happening live right now!)

For this race to have really caught fire there needed to be a couple more variables thrown in, maybe that's Mas or some bad weather.

bobmcstuff

Not sure the Vuelta's been that unpredictable really has it? Yates is hardly an outsider to have the red at this stage. Quintana has been a surprisingly bad I suppose.

Bottom briquettes

La Vuelta is usually a proper pantomime. This year’s edition has not been anything like as bat crap crazy.

daniel_b

davidof wrote:

ddraver wrote:

Good thing about Vuelta - All (most of) the trolls are bored by September

Bad thing about Vuelta - a lot of genuine fans are too...

They should move it (back) to spring when the weather is nice in Spain and stop holding the Giro in blizzards but in the autumn when the weather is pleasant in Italy.

Stonking idea.

kingstongraham

bobmcstuff wrote:

Not sure the Vuelta's been that unpredictable really has it? Yates is hardly an outsider to have the red at this stage. Quintana has been a surprisingly bad I suppose.

Stages as well - Wallays yesterday, Ben King twice, Woods, Geniez, Gallopin - all not stages that went as expected.

Pross

alanparsons wrote:

Pross wrote:

alanparsons wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Pretty much what the title says is this years vuelta a snore fest?

I think it is a far more interesting race than the TdF, far less predictable on a daily basis, there is no way yesterdays breakaway would have succeeded in France.
The GC is still very close and the real shake up stage is still to come tomorrow (sat), 6 categorized climbs in under 100km.
The absence of some of the big hitters (Froome,Dumoulin,Bardet) along with Quintana's lack of form/ability has made it far more interesting to me.
I have been watching the stages live most days, the only downside being Kirby's inane drivel.

Was the Tour predictable this year? How many people predicted that Froome's domestique would win? Even in the final week no-one was sure if Thomas would have the physical and mental ability to hold on and I doubt anyone expected him to win back to back mountain stages. It seems like a bit of stereotyping / confirmation bias to call it predictable.

Please read what I wrote, I did not say the TdF was predictable only that the Vuelta is less so and therefore more interesting to ME.

You actually said far less predictable and as the Vuelta hasn't exactly been unpredictable (the same few GC riders crossing the line close together each day) that would require the Tour to have been very predictable surely? The only surprise so far in the Vuelta for me is Mas and some of the stage results although that in itself is partly due to the lack of strong sprint teams to control the non-GC days. I haven't seen enough of it to say whether it has been good or bad but I really don't see anything on the GC front that I would call unpredictable other than maybe Quintana looking worse than I'd have expected.

Pross

Daniel B wrote:

davidof wrote:

ddraver wrote:

Good thing about Vuelta - All (most of) the trolls are bored by September

Bad thing about Vuelta - a lot of genuine fans are too...

They should move it (back) to spring when the weather is nice in Spain and stop holding the Giro in blizzards but in the autumn when the weather is pleasant in Italy.

Stonking idea.

I can't see the Giro liking being the training race for the Worlds though.

slim_boy_fat

I've enjoyed it. Only been keeping up by listening to The Cycling Podcast and watching some of the highlights but from what I've seen it's been really good. Even Kirby has not been getting on my nerves as much as usual.

bobmcstuff

KingstonGraham wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

Not sure the Vuelta's been that unpredictable really has it? Yates is hardly an outsider to have the red at this stage. Quintana has been a surprisingly bad I suppose.

Stages as well - Wallays yesterday, Ben King twice, Woods, Geniez, Gallopin - all not stages that went as expected.

I wouldn't have said Woods win was particularly surprising, really? He's been knocking on the door for a while and that was a stage which suited him, if it went to a breakaway win. My reaction was "good for him" not "what??", in any case.

Wallays yesterday, fair enough, that was very entertaining (for about 5 minutes at the end of the stage). And Ben King's first stage.

Just trying to cast my mind back, there were a couple of unexpected stage wins at the Giro weren't there? Anyway, I'm quite enjoying the Vuelta so I am not going to argue too much.

DeadCalm

Pross wrote:

alanparsons wrote:

Pross wrote:

alanparsons wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Pretty much what the title says is this years vuelta a snore fest?

I think it is a far more interesting race than the TdF, far less predictable on a daily basis, there is no way yesterdays breakaway would have succeeded in France.
The GC is still very close and the real shake up stage is still to come tomorrow (sat), 6 categorized climbs in under 100km.
The absence of some of the big hitters (Froome,Dumoulin,Bardet) along with Quintana's lack of form/ability has made it far more interesting to me.
I have been watching the stages live most days, the only downside being Kirby's inane drivel.

Was the Tour predictable this year? How many people predicted that Froome's domestique would win? Even in the final week no-one was sure if Thomas would have the physical and mental ability to hold on and I doubt anyone expected him to win back to back mountain stages. It seems like a bit of stereotyping / confirmation bias to call it predictable.

Please read what I wrote, I did not say the TdF was predictable only that the Vuelta is less so and therefore more interesting to ME.

You actually said far less predictable and as the Vuelta hasn't exactly been unpredictable (the same few GC riders crossing the line close together each day) that would require the Tour to have been very predictable surely? The only surprise so far in the Vuelta for me is Mas and some of the stage results although that in itself is partly due to the lack of strong sprint teams to control the non-GC days. I haven't seen enough of it to say whether it has been good or bad but I really don't see anything on the GC front that I would call unpredictable other than maybe Quintana looking worse than I'd have expected.

As your analysis goes to show.

tailwindhome

Haven't watched one minute of it.
Haven't listened to any podcasts

Missed the start and it seems to have passed me by. I'm not sure why. Think it was just badly timed with family stuff, backl to school, busy at work blah blah blah
I was looking forward to it after the tour too


Worse than that I've also lost track of my Yates's

topper_harley

The crazy steep ramps are fun but they need limited, maybe throw in some down hill finish after a few of them

Pross

DeadCalm wrote:

Pross wrote:

alanparsons wrote:

Pross wrote:

alanparsons wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Pretty much what the title says is this years vuelta a snore fest?

I think it is a far more interesting race than the TdF, far less predictable on a daily basis, there is no way yesterdays breakaway would have succeeded in France.
The GC is still very close and the real shake up stage is still to come tomorrow (sat), 6 categorized climbs in under 100km.
The absence of some of the big hitters (Froome,Dumoulin,Bardet) along with Quintana's lack of form/ability has made it far more interesting to me.
I have been watching the stages live most days, the only downside being Kirby's inane drivel.

Was the Tour predictable this year? How many people predicted that Froome's domestique would win? Even in the final week no-one was sure if Thomas would have the physical and mental ability to hold on and I doubt anyone expected him to win back to back mountain stages. It seems like a bit of stereotyping / confirmation bias to call it predictable.

Please read what I wrote, I did not say the TdF was predictable only that the Vuelta is less so and therefore more interesting to ME.

You actually said far less predictable and as the Vuelta hasn't exactly been unpredictable (the same few GC riders crossing the line close together each day) that would require the Tour to have been very predictable surely? The only surprise so far in the Vuelta for me is Mas and some of the stage results although that in itself is partly due to the lack of strong sprint teams to control the non-GC days. I haven't seen enough of it to say whether it has been good or bad but I really don't see anything on the GC front that I would call unpredictable other than maybe Quintana looking worse than I'd have expected.

As your analysis goes to show.

Explain where I'm wrong then. Where has all the unpredictability been in this race and the stages where the GC contenders have had a good go at each other. It certainly hasn't been reflected in the spoiler threads. My argument is that the Tour certainly wasn't predictable and that the statement that the Vuelta has been far more unpredictable doesn't seem to be supported by what I've seen or read of it.

DeadCalm

Pross wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Pross wrote:

alanparsons wrote:

Pross wrote:

alanparsons wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Pretty much what the title says is this years vuelta a snore fest?

I think it is a far more interesting race than the TdF, far less predictable on a daily basis, there is no way yesterdays breakaway would have succeeded in France.
The GC is still very close and the real shake up stage is still to come tomorrow (sat), 6 categorized climbs in under 100km.
The absence of some of the big hitters (Froome,Dumoulin,Bardet) along with Quintana's lack of form/ability has made it far more interesting to me.
I have been watching the stages live most days, the only downside being Kirby's inane drivel.

Was the Tour predictable this year? How many people predicted that Froome's domestique would win? Even in the final week no-one was sure if Thomas would have the physical and mental ability to hold on and I doubt anyone expected him to win back to back mountain stages. It seems like a bit of stereotyping / confirmation bias to call it predictable.

Please read what I wrote, I did not say the TdF was predictable only that the Vuelta is less so and therefore more interesting to ME.

You actually said far less predictable and as the Vuelta hasn't exactly been unpredictable (the same few GC riders crossing the line close together each day) that would require the Tour to have been very predictable surely? The only surprise so far in the Vuelta for me is Mas and some of the stage results although that in itself is partly due to the lack of strong sprint teams to control the non-GC days. I haven't seen enough of it to say whether it has been good or bad but I really don't see anything on the GC front that I would call unpredictable other than maybe Quintana looking worse than I'd have expected.

As your analysis goes to show.

Explain where I'm wrong then. Where has all the unpredictability been in this race and the stages where the GC contenders have had a good go at each other. It certainly hasn't been reflected in the spoiler threads. My argument is that the Tour certainly wasn't predictable and that the statement that the Vuelta has been far more unpredictable doesn't seem to be supported by what I've seen or read of it.

Although, at the outset, Yates winning may have been not entirely unpredictable (albeit a long shot given the field) most stages have been very unpredictable with first Valverde, then Yates, then Lopez then Quintana, etc. gaining time on the field. Whereas at the start of the TDF Geraint may well have been much longer odds than Yates, the stages rapidly became extremely predictable.

RichN95.

DeadCalm wrote:

Although, at the outset, Yates winning may have been not entirely unpredictable (albeit a long shot given the field)

Yates was the joint pre-race favourite with Porte.

DeVlaeminck

Blazing Saddles wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

A week or so ago there was a discussion on here about whether Quintana already had this race in the bag - now we are discussing whether he should work for Valverde - so there have been GC changes it's just nobody has ran away with it.

There was?
I must have missed it. :?

Stage 13 thread, two comments at the end, ok it was a short discussion !

Pross

DeadCalm wrote:

Pross wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Pross wrote:

alanparsons wrote:

Pross wrote:

alanparsons wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Pretty much what the title says is this years vuelta a snore fest?

I think it is a far more interesting race than the TdF, far less predictable on a daily basis, there is no way yesterdays breakaway would have succeeded in France.
The GC is still very close and the real shake up stage is still to come tomorrow (sat), 6 categorized climbs in under 100km.
The absence of some of the big hitters (Froome,Dumoulin,Bardet) along with Quintana's lack of form/ability has made it far more interesting to me.
I have been watching the stages live most days, the only downside being Kirby's inane drivel.

Was the Tour predictable this year? How many people predicted that Froome's domestique would win? Even in the final week no-one was sure if Thomas would have the physical and mental ability to hold on and I doubt anyone expected him to win back to back mountain stages. It seems like a bit of stereotyping / confirmation bias to call it predictable.

Please read what I wrote, I did not say the TdF was predictable only that the Vuelta is less so and therefore more interesting to ME.

You actually said far less predictable and as the Vuelta hasn't exactly been unpredictable (the same few GC riders crossing the line close together each day) that would require the Tour to have been very predictable surely? The only surprise so far in the Vuelta for me is Mas and some of the stage results although that in itself is partly due to the lack of strong sprint teams to control the non-GC days. I haven't seen enough of it to say whether it has been good or bad but I really don't see anything on the GC front that I would call unpredictable other than maybe Quintana looking worse than I'd have expected.

As your analysis goes to show.

Explain where I'm wrong then. Where has all the unpredictability been in this race and the stages where the GC contenders have had a good go at each other. It certainly hasn't been reflected in the spoiler threads. My argument is that the Tour certainly wasn't predictable and that the statement that the Vuelta has been far more unpredictable doesn't seem to be supported by what I've seen or read of it.

Although, at the outset, Yates winning may have been not entirely unpredictable (albeit a long shot given the field) most stages have been very unpredictable with first Valverde, then Yates, then Lopez then Quintana, etc. gaining time on the field. Whereas at the start of the TDF Geraint may well have been much longer odds than Yates, the stages rapidly became extremely predictable.

I'll take your word then, as I say I haven't seen enough to argue but from what I have seen and read it has felt like 4 or 5 riders have stuck together and alternated between taking a few seconds on each other. I'll grant that I wasn't convinced Yates could hold on but that was due to the Giro events.

I disagree on the Tour though, I never felt confident that Thomas would win until after the final mountain stage (and even then I was worried something might go wrong in the TT). However, I accept that might just be because I wanted him to win and didn't dare hope he would. Most years the Tour as a GC race is predictable but I felt this year was a genuinely interesting race.

dodgy

I find the backdrop a bit bland. They need to get away from the dual carriageways, it's becoming a bike like the Amgen TOC.

ddraver

I's just add that my lack of interest has nothing, particularly, to do with the Race, Spain or course. I'm just not interested. I dunno why....I really don't. It's not like anything about my life has changed since the Tour...

I'm even planning on going to Spain next month, normally I'd be watching to get excited about that but....meh

RichN95.

To me this race has seemed a bit like the 2017 Tour. A pre-race favourite getting the lead a bit earlier than he had wanted and then seeing his major rivals slowly fall away under no real pressure from himself before dispatching what remained in the last weekend with little problem.

ocdupalais

RichN95 wrote:

To me this race has seemed a bit like the 2017 Tour. A pre-race favourite getting the lead a bit earlier than he had wanted and then seeing his major rivals slowly fall away under no real pressure from himself before dispatching what remained in the last weekend with little problem.

I do love a glib appraisal of a 3 week GT to make me feel like if I'd stuck at it, I could've cracked one off after college before getting a proper job.

bm5

Maybe not the best but still enjoyable. It's the race for the breakaway and opportunities.

DeadCalm

Pross wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Pross wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Pross wrote:

alanparsons wrote:

Pross wrote:

alanparsons wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Pretty much what the title says is this years vuelta a snore fest?

I think it is a far more interesting race than the TdF, far less predictable on a daily basis, there is no way yesterdays breakaway would have succeeded in France.
The GC is still very close and the real shake up stage is still to come tomorrow (sat), 6 categorized climbs in under 100km.
The absence of some of the big hitters (Froome,Dumoulin,Bardet) along with Quintana's lack of form/ability has made it far more interesting to me.
I have been watching the stages live most days, the only downside being Kirby's inane drivel.

Was the Tour predictable this year? How many people predicted that Froome's domestique would win? Even in the final week no-one was sure if Thomas would have the physical and mental ability to hold on and I doubt anyone expected him to win back to back mountain stages. It seems like a bit of stereotyping / confirmation bias to call it predictable.

Please read what I wrote, I did not say the TdF was predictable only that the Vuelta is less so and therefore more interesting to ME.

You actually said far less predictable and as the Vuelta hasn't exactly been unpredictable (the same few GC riders crossing the line close together each day) that would require the Tour to have been very predictable surely? The only surprise so far in the Vuelta for me is Mas and some of the stage results although that in itself is partly due to the lack of strong sprint teams to control the non-GC days. I haven't seen enough of it to say whether it has been good or bad but I really don't see anything on the GC front that I would call unpredictable other than maybe Quintana looking worse than I'd have expected.

As your analysis goes to show.

Explain where I'm wrong then. Where has all the unpredictability been in this race and the stages where the GC contenders have had a good go at each other. It certainly hasn't been reflected in the spoiler threads. My argument is that the Tour certainly wasn't predictable and that the statement that the Vuelta has been far more unpredictable doesn't seem to be supported by what I've seen or read of it.

Although, at the outset, Yates winning may have been not entirely unpredictable (albeit a long shot given the field) most stages have been very unpredictable with first Valverde, then Yates, then Lopez then Quintana, etc. gaining time on the field. Whereas at the start of the TDF Geraint may well have been much longer odds than Yates, the stages rapidly became extremely predictable.

I'll take your word then, as I say I haven't seen enough to argue but from what I have seen and read it has felt like 4 or 5 riders have stuck together and alternated between taking a few seconds on each other. I'll grant that I wasn't convinced Yates could hold on but that was due to the Giro events.

I disagree on the Tour though, I never felt confident that Thomas would win until after the final mountain stage (and even then I was worried something might go wrong in the TT). However, I accept that might just be because I wanted him to win and didn't dare hope he would. Most years the Tour as a GC race is predictable but I felt this year was a genuinely interesting race.

I totally understand that last paragraph. To me the 2012 Tour was one of the most thrilling, nail biting races ever (objectively it wasn't) and I didn't relax until the finish in Paris.

ddraver

I'm going to be slightly irked if I end up missing Simon Yates's first GT win...

(though I confess I'm about to go out on a ride rather than watch the stage.)

bobmcstuff

ddraver wrote:

I'm going to be slightly irked if I end up missing Simon Yates's first GT win...

(though I confess I'm about to go out on a ride rather than watch the stage.)

Should have gone out earlier than 11am then shouldn't you!

bobmcstuff

If Yates hadn't collapsed so spectacularly in the Giro, the Vuelta GC would have been dull as dishwater.

It's only the fact that Yates hadn't been able to put together 3 good weeks which has kept it interesting.

Pross

Decent couple of mountain stages to finish.

m.r.m.

If Yates had won the Giro, would he have ridden the Vuelta trying to win GC? Pretty insane to start your GC palmares with a Giro/Vuelta double. Insane how close he was to it!