Serena Williams

capt_slog

That Tempur mattress she's using doesn't seem to be giving her good night's sleep.

Matthewfalle

i still reckon that TDN could have her in a scrap after a pint of Buckie

CitizenLee

haydenm

Is it sexist to try and get away with being a kn0b by saying it's sexist?

chris_bass

I think this tournament has been a bit bad for the male/female arguments
there was the female player who got a violation for changing her top (she had a pretty comprehensive sports bra on underneath!!) yet men can sit there topless for as long as they like
kyrios was basically coached by the umpire and then Serena gets a warning for her coach sending messages.
The umpire followed the letter of the law in this case so can't be accused of anything. I think the real question is do men get away with things they shouldn't? but then they bring in most of the money to the game so are probably a little more protected.

haydenm

Chris Bass wrote:

I think the real question is do men get away with things they shouldn't?

This tbh, no one should be allowed to get away with that sort of thing regardless of gender

kingstongraham

HaydenM wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

I think the real question is do men get away with things they shouldn't?

This tbh, no one should be allowed to get away with that sort of thing regardless of gender

Pat Cash on commentary seemed to imply that calling the umpire "a thief" isn't verbal abuse. That doesn't seem a very healthy attitude.

Probably was more clear cut before when she called an umpire "Ugly on the inside" and "a loser", or the other time when she threatened to shove a tennis ball down a line judges throat for calling a foot fault.

Matthewfalle

call mf old fashioned, but in what parallel universe is it acceptable to speak to anyone in the manner that professional sports people of all genders speak to referees/umpires etc?

if - random example - Footballer X came up to MF in the street and called him an effing this and that there is a high chance footballer may receive a bop on the nose.

#discountcode12

rolf_f

Matthewfalle wrote:

call mf old fashioned, but in what parallel universe is it acceptable to speak to anyone in the manner that professional sports people of all genders speak to referees/umpires etc?

if - random example - Footballer X came up to MF in the street and called him an effing this and that there is a high chance footballer may receive a bop on the nose.

#discountcode12

On the other hand, call me old fashioned but, it is entirely possible that MF might receive a bob on the nose for repeated and gratuitous use of hashtags at the end of MFs posts.

Serena doesn't seem to be a pleasant person......

david7m

Sore loser?
Dave

haydenm

david7m wrote:

Sore loser?
Dave

I haven't seen it but apparently she was quite gracious to her opponent at the end. Getting wound up during a high level game is probably understandable but it really depends on what the rules are specifically

kingstongraham

HaydenM wrote:

david7m wrote:

Sore loser?
Dave

I haven't seen it but apparently she was quite gracious to her opponent at the end. Getting wound up during a high level game is probably understandable but it really depends on what the rules are specifically

It does also depend on whether the rules are applied consistently. I have never seen it get to a game penalty, but the last two things she got penalised for were definite violations.

Seen men get thrown out of the tournament for being physically violent - that guy at the Queen's club the other year where he kicked a line judge in the leg. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIsT_GPJXaI

TheBigBean

KingstonGraham wrote:

HaydenM wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

I think the real question is do men get away with things they shouldn't?

This tbh, no one should be allowed to get away with that sort of thing regardless of gender

Pat Cash on commentary seemed to imply that calling the umpire "a thief" isn't verbal abuse. That doesn't seem a very healthy attitude.

Probably was more clear cut before when she called an umpire "Ugly on the inside" and "a loser", or the other time when she threatened to shove a tennis ball down a line judges throat for calling a foot fault.

I think tennis in general has a problem. The best example of this is the way pundits, WTA etc. have rallied around Serena.

rjsterry

Think I will put this down as a valid point badly made. As for whether she or anyone else in top level sport is a nice person, who cares? It's not a popularity contest.

TheBigBean

rjsterry wrote:

Think I will put this down as a valid point badly made. As for whether she or anyone else in top level sport is a nice person, who cares? It's not a popularity contest.

Naomi Osaka, the umpire, fans of sport being played fairly, people who would prefer their kids didn't think it was the done thing on a tennis court etc.

dabber

At least there was one good outcome... she lost the match. Total lack of class or self control.

rjsterry

TheBigBean wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Think I will put this down as a valid point badly made. As for whether she or anyone else in top level sport is a nice person, who cares? It's not a popularity contest.

Naomi Osaka, the umpire, fans of sport being played fairly, people who would prefer their kids didn't think it was the done thing on a tennis court etc.

Agreed. Apparently the umpire in question has form for being officious and unnecessarily picky in applying the rules. Ranting at him is unlikely to change that.
I was referring to the comments on whether she was a pleasant person.

Ben6899

"You're only sanctioning me for conduct infractions because I'm a woman"

Then goes onto call him a "thief" and a "cheat"... massive chip on her shoulder.

Matthewfalle

rjsterry wrote:

Think I will put this down as a valid point badly made. As for whether she or anyone else in top level sport is a nice person, who cares? It's not a popularity contest.

mf agrees that you don't have to be a nice person but he doesn't telling the ref or umpire or whatever to eff off is in the rules.

joe2008

Matthewfalle wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Think I will put this down as a valid point badly made. As for whether she or anyone else in top level sport is a nice person, who cares? It's not a popularity contest.

mf agrees that you don't have to be a nice person but he doesn't telling the ref or umpire or whatever to eff off is in the rules.

Why do you insist on referring to yourself in the third person? It makes you look stupid.

Matthewfalle

joe2008 wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Think I will put this down as a valid point badly made. As for whether she or anyone else in top level sport is a nice person, who cares? It's not a popularity contest.

mf agrees that you don't have to be a nice person but he doesn't telling the ref or umpire or whatever to eff off is in the rules.

Why do you insist on referring to yourself in the third person? It makes you look stupid.

mf doesn't unless he is referring to mf. obvs.

#anger

TheBigBean

rjsterry wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Think I will put this down as a valid point badly made. As for whether she or anyone else in top level sport is a nice person, who cares? It's not a popularity contest.

Naomi Osaka, the umpire, fans of sport being played fairly, people who would prefer their kids didn't think it was the done thing on a tennis court etc.

Agreed. Apparently the umpire in question has form for being officious and unnecessarily picky in applying the rules. Ranting at him is unlikely to change that.
I was referring to the comments on whether she was a pleasant person.

Or alternatively, the umpire is one of the few that is willing to stand up to players whoever they are.

The question that should be being asked by tennis organisations is how would this be treated in other sports? E.g. a cricket player so angry he breaks his bat on the ground in rage and then accuses the umpire of cheating and threatens his job. Or, a footballer given a yellow card for diving who then rips his shirt off in rage whilst accusing the ref.

My view for a long time has been that tennis has a problem.

pblakeney

Two simple questions.
1. Has a male player ever talked to the umpire in a similar tone, with similar accusations?
2. If so, was the male player punished?

Answer 1, yes, and answer 2, no. She has a point.
Any other answer and she is a player who lost the plot and is now seeking justification.

Whatever the above, the umpire did the right thing in this instance and it should be the norm.

tangled_metal

A modification of your question is...
1. Has a male player ever talked to this umpire in a similar tone, with similar accusations?
2. If so, was the male player punished by this umpire?
The reason for my modification is that accusation of sexism for this instance is levelled at this umpire so you have to specifically look at this umpire's past decisions for similar situations. If he's had similar situation with a male player and he didn't sanction the same way then there needs to be further questions about his reasoning in this and similar cases.

Personally I think umpires and referees should have the final word and should be respected. If you have issues state your case calmly then let it go but raise the issue with the relevant official as a complaint behind closed doors and out of the limelight. It then becomes a situation that warrants a process and gets a final decision. Unlikely to affect the result as much as the initial decision but I firmly believe rules are to be obeyed and umpires are the arbiters of the rules with the final decision within the game you're playing.

IMHO there's too much disrespecting rules and umpires in many sports. I don't think football is any better than tennis neither. It's got more than its own issues to sort out. Like managers abusing referees, players crowding referees in an attempt to influence, diving and many other issues. There's certainly a culture of trying to get away with rule breaking. IMHO video referees should be able to do more / report more to the referee. There's a lot that gets missed by all but those able to see the video of the play.

pblakeney

I accept the question modifications as that was my intention.
Once that is settled it should apply across the board.

proto

Do steroid users sometimes have episodes of so called ‘roid rage?

DeVlaeminck

I quite like it when tennis players have a melt down, John McEnroe's tantrums were legend and made great viewing. Rather than dock players games I'd rather the umpire could reply with some kind of taunt to further enrage the player.

ddraver

She was docked a point and fined for 3 violations no? (I'm not that in to tennis).

A lot of the examples of male players doing 'the same' neglects to mention that.

Perhaps they re just sensible enough to realis where the line is, same as a footballer on a yellow card.

She's also getting a reputation for this. Getting to the point where umpires are expecting it and won't need too much encouragement to start penalising. A bit like Moscon in the tour, or Dylan Hartley in anything for example...

bompington

The thing that gets me is the blatant attempt to put herself into groups protected by modern cultural trends - woman, mother etc. At least she didn't say "is it because I is black?", but plenty of people are doing it for her.

What about the fact that she is an extremely rich, powerful person - and she was effectively trying to bully the umpire (roared on by the crowd too) to force him to rule her way.

She should have forfeited the match straight away. $17K fine? That's less than one percent of her prize money for that tounament, never mind however many hundreds of millions she has in the bank.

Personally I think the umpire should sue her for defamation - surely calling someone a liar and cheat is exactly that?

tangled_metal

And now, courtesy of newscorp's aussie papers she's got a little bit of sympathy generated. Did you see the cartoon of her?

It's kind of like a sambo image jumping up and down on her racket with a dummy on the floor nearby. In the background the umpire is asking the blonde opponent to let her win the match.

I doubt naomi osaka sees herself as a blonde. Is that to the racism? I'm surprised they didn't know her opponent wasn't blonde. Is newscorp institutionally racist or do they just have a few idiots making editorial decisions?

rjsterry

bompington wrote:

The thing that gets me is the blatant attempt to put herself into groups protected by modern cultural trends - woman, mother etc. At least she didn't say "is it because I is black?", but plenty of people are doing it for her.

What about the fact that she is an extremely rich, powerful person - and she was effectively trying to bully the umpire (roared on by the crowd too) to force him to rule her way.

She should have forfeited the match straight away. $17K fine? That's less than one percent of her prize money for that tounament, never mind however many hundreds of millions she has in the bank.

Personally I think the umpire should sue her for defamation - surely calling someone a liar and cheat is exactly that?

He effectively called her a cheat first.