52/36 Di2 over the usual 50/34?

CRAIGO5000

Having been ploughed into on a roundabout which killed my best bike, I’m going around in circles with a new setup!

It seems the usual ‘go to’ compact of 50/34 is being replaced by many manufacturers and the go to is now 52/36! I guess teamed with an 11 speed 11-28 that the ratio at the climbing end is very similar but the 52-11 give you loads more for descents.

I’m in a pickle as I’m coming from Sram force 10 speed standard compact.

I’m now staring down options such as;
52/36 Di2
Rim brake or disk brake?
Aero bike or super light climbing bike?

Is 52/36 the now wise choice if buying now?

Thanks

w00dster

I have both 52/38 and 50/34.
My 50/34 is also accompanied by an 11-30 cassette, so when I'm doing very hilly rides this is my go to set up. But for the majority of my rides I prefer the 52/38 with an 11-28. I probably only rarely use the 52-11 or 52-12, but as someone who races crits and does frequent chain gang rides, its great for that.
I would say though that it depends on where you ride, what you are like riding up hills (spinner in a light gear or whether you can get up in 36-27/28). How often will you make use of the 52-11?
I'm in a similar dilemma with regards to a new bike. Aero or standard road. Aero bikes seem to have being going up and up in price. Disc brake for me, but thats because I can then swap wheels between bikes.

CRAIGO5000

I think the best route for me being 62Kg is to keep the bike as light as possible.

I’m steering toward Di2 over mechanical Ultegra. Just need to get the crankset right.

If I bought the SL frame then teamed with my Ksyrium SL wheels, I’ve got a bike of around 6.5Kg that can climb. If I then stick some carbon deep sections on, I think I’ll be reaping as much aero benefit for flat rides but giving me as much flexibility as I can get from a single ‘good bike’.

The frames I have in mind are the Ribble SL or Aero 883 with or without disc. I’m steering toward the SL though as our club runs are regularly in the hills and I’m most aero when sat in the bunch on the flats

stueys

I prefer a 52/36 for uk riding, normally I run it with an 11-28. But this isn’t a biggie, it’s very easy to swap chain rings and run a 50/34 (I did this for the Marmotte this year) or an 11-30 on the back is as near as damnit the same lowest gear as 34-28.

StillGoing

I came from a lifetime of SRAM from 10 speed Force, Red, Force 22 and still have Rival 22 on my wintertrainer/turbo bike. I made the switch to R8050 Di2 earlier this year and no regrets. I was one of those that pooh-pooh the idea of electronic groupsets, but switched due to a medical condition and to make life easier during rides. I wish I'd done it sooner as it makes gear changing so swift and no occasional adjustments like mechanical.

I always used either a 34/50 or 36/50 combination with an 11/28 cassette on my bikes, but now run 36/52 with the Di2, partly to make the synchronised shifting logical. Di2 doesn't cater for 36/50 in the synchronised change options so I'd often get either too high or too low a gear with synchronised changing.Your options for synchronised shifting are the usual standard set ups on the front.

As for braking; it depends what you want. If you want to switch wheels between bikes but your other one has rim brakes, then I'd go rim brakes. If you want added stopping power, go for disc brakes.

CRAIGO5000

That’s the kind of response I was hoping for! I have SRAM Apex/Rival on my winter Dolan and it’s good. SRAM is so expensive now though and their technology is way off par compared to what Shimano now offer. I also run SRAM Stages PM and it’s cheaper for me to put that on the commuter permanently and buy a separate 4iii Ultegra as part of the new bike build.

I hadn’t even thought about synchro shifting ratio so that seems the deal breaker to now opt for 52/36 and perhaps buy 2 x 11 speed cassettes. 28-11 and maybe 30-11 for the 15-20% climbs

pauly69

Differences between Ultegra cassettes is that easiest gears are (21)/23/25/28 vs (21)/24/27/30 - other cogs are identical. Apart from saving a few grams on the 11-28 probably not worth running two different cassettes unless you intend to install on different wheels. They'll both work with short cage R8000 RD fortunately (but to avoid b-screw adjust you'd have to fit for the bigger one).

shirley_basso

I guess it depends where you live, your fitness and the type of riding you do qwh

Generally speaking my preference is to have closely spaced higher gears and then at the easier end I am less fussed.

The good thing about compact chainsets is that you can run 11-25 (or 11-23) cassette and have really nice close gaps which is great for riding around on the flat, yet 34x25 is still a pretty easy gear for most short hills. I could probably change to 11-23 as I live in Cambridge and it's pan flat. I actually run a 52/36 (came with the bike) and a 11-25, but it's very rare that I wished for another intermediate gear that 11-23 would give me and I've never needed anything easier than a 36-25 where I live.

For trips abroad I keep a 11-28 in my spares box and if you are going Di2, don't overlook a 52x34 setup as well, as Di2 will do it without issue (I have googled it extensively). You can actually put a 34T chainring on there with no loss in shifting performance, which is awesome, as they are also dirt cheap. Sadly I have no evidence of this as I was on a trip when I tried to swap chainrings and ended up rounding off the NDS crank arm pinch bolts so just had to suffer with 36x28!

londoncommuter

This is a lovely site as you can compare two set-ups:

http://www.gear-calculator.com/

Personally 52/11 and 36/28 would never ever get used so 50/34 11-26T makes more sense. Each to their own.

vinnymarsden

Can I say , I have shimano 8050 Di2 , it’s excellent but I wouldn’t get too excited about synch shifting... in my opinion it’s a real faff and offers very little if you are doing anything with hills in it, I have set it all back to single change shifting... not for me, but I fully accept some might like it... but it’s not the light bulb moment I think people were expecting.

StillGoing

VinnyMarsden wrote:

Can I say , I have shimano 8050 Di2 , it’s excellent but I wouldn’t get too excited about synch shifting... in my opinion it’s a real faff and offers very little if you are doing anything with hills in it, I have set it all back to single change shifting... not for me, but I fully accept some might like it... but it’s not the light bulb moment I think people were expecting.

See I'm fully supportive of it. For my medical condition where the left arm goes numb within the hour (subclavian occlusion), front shifting is difficult with lever operated shifters. Synchronised shifting means I don't even need to think about it. The auto change down on the front and changing up 3 cogs on the cassette means I don't have to mess about getting the right gear for hills. The speed shift then allows me to get the right gear to begin the descent.

StillGoing

Shirley Basso wrote:

I guess it depends where you live, your fitness and the type of riding you do qwh

Generally speaking my preference is to have closely spaced higher gears and then at the easier end I am less fussed.

The good thing about compact chainsets is that you can run 11-25 (or 11-23) cassette and have really nice close gaps which is great for riding around on the flat, yet 34x25 is still a pretty easy gear for most short hills. I could probably change to 11-23 as I live in Cambridge and it's pan flat. I actually run a 52/36 (came with the bike) and a 11-25, but it's very rare that I wished for another intermediate gear that 11-23 would give me and I've never needed anything easier than a 36-25 where I live.

For trips abroad I keep a 11-28 in my spares box and if you are going Di2, don't overlook a 52x34 setup as well, as Di2 will do it without issue (I have googled it extensively). You can actually put a 34T chainring on there with no loss in shifting performance, which is awesome, as they are also dirt cheap. Sadly I have no evidence of this as I was on a trip when I tried to swap chainrings and ended up rounding off the NDS crank arm pinch bolts so just had to suffer with 36x28!

R8050 has been shown to take a 40 tooth cassette without problem.

shirley_basso

^ the issue with this is you lose the close spacing on the rear when in bigger gears, don't you?

I am sadly not riding as much as I was but for fast ish rides I like having a close ratio cassette when in the big ring so I can always be in the right gear.

For climbing I am not so fussy so happy to go down to a 34T inner and select at the back to match. 34/23 would be fine for me in Cambridge and 34/25 has always served me fine for Surrey, Sussex and Kent when I lived in London.

For the mountains i would liked to have gone 52/34 - 12-28 but I damaged a bolt when trying to change so had to go 52/36.

cougie

My next bike is going to have 50 34 on it.

I've used a 52 for years but I'm so rarely in the top gears that o feel I'll get much better use of the whole block with a 50.

StillGoing

cougie wrote:

My next bike is going to have 50 34 on it.

I've used a 52 for years but I'm so rarely in the top gears that o feel I'll get much better use of the whole block with a 50.

Unless you ride somewhere hilly, its a double edged sword. With a 50/34, I'd barely use the big end of the block and at 57, I'm no mountain goat.

svetty

I find that unless I'm doing hillier rides I tend to stay in the 50 for most of the time and the 34 sees little use. A 50-28 gear will do for short punchy climbs and moderate gradient drags.

mfrey

I have changed from a 50/34 - 11/32 to a 52/36 - 11/28 and it really made (longer) steep climbs much harder. I am 80+ kg and not very powerful rider, so I was more comfortable (and faster) with the 50/34 on climbs. On the flat, I rarely used the smallest gear in the back with my 52, so no actual benefit for having it.

svetty

mfrey wrote:

.... I am 80+ kg and not very powerful rider...

Bingo!

drhaggis

My commuter in Edinburgh has a 50-34 coupled to an 11-32 cassette. I stayed for two month on the Basque Country (very hilly, next to Pyrinees) this summer, where I bought something with a 52-36 chainring coupled to an 11-28 cassette. Ironically, the bikes should swap places.

So what I found is that, unless you can do more than 3.5 W/kg and sustain, on the flat and on your own, speeds higher than ~35 km/h, you're better off with the compact. With a 36x28, pedalling slower than 14 km/h is a drag, and 90rpm with the 36x12 is already > 35 km/h. Before you laugh, 14 km/h is over 4W/kg on an 8% gradient.

Don't fool yourself. Look at your strava figures and the terrain you're likely to go through and choose accordingly. I never miss those extra 2kph on Edinburgh, but I sure as hell wished I had access to the 34x32 when going up proper climbs. It's not against Rule #5 not to make your life miserable from the get go.

StillGoing

DrHaggis wrote:

So what I found is that, unless you can do more than 3.5 W/kg and sustain, on the flat and on your own, speeds higher than ~35 km/h, you're better off with the compact. With a 36x28, pedalling slower than 14 km/h is a drag, and 90rpm with the 36x12 is already > 35 km/h. Before you laugh, 14 km/h is over 4W/kg on an 8% gradient.

You're so funny.

drhaggis

philthy3 wrote:

DrHaggis wrote:

So what I found is that, unless you can do more than 3.5 W/kg and sustain, on the flat and on your own, speeds higher than ~35 km/h, you're better off with the compact. With a 36x28, pedalling slower than 14 km/h is a drag, and 90rpm with the 36x12 is already > 35 km/h. Before you laugh, 14 km/h is over 4W/kg on an 8% gradient.

You're so funny.

Do explain.

StillGoing

DrHaggis wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

DrHaggis wrote:

So what I found is that, unless you can do more than 3.5 W/kg and sustain, on the flat and on your own, speeds higher than ~35 km/h, you're better off with the compact. With a 36x28, pedalling slower than 14 km/h is a drag, and 90rpm with the 36x12 is already > 35 km/h. Before you laugh, 14 km/h is over 4W/kg on an 8% gradient.

You're so funny.

Do explain.

Seriously, you don't need to be able to do more than 3.5 W/Kg and sustain 35kmh to justify a 36/50 or 52. Coupled with a 12/28 or 11/28 cassette, it would suit most riders other than where the road goes steep for long stretches. The average Jo/Joe does not do 90rpm either.

kingrollo

Currently I run 53/39 with a 28 on the back - it feels tough on the hills - so my new bike 50/34 - with 11/30 rear - hopefully that will help on the hills.

Weird thing though - after a 60 mile mile I always have an approx 6-8% hill to climb, as I have a sportive coming up - I thought I would try the climb in a much bigger gear than I normally do ........ PR on strava !

cld531c

kingrollo wrote:

Currently I run 53/39 with a 28 on the back - it feels tough on the hills - so my new bike 50/34 - with 11/30 rear - hopefully that will help on the hills.

Weird thing though - after a 60 mile mile I always have an approx 6-8% hill to climb, as I have a sportive coming up - I thought I would try the climb in a much bigger gear than I normally do ........ PR on strava !

My best times have always been when I am accidentally in the wrong (harder) gear.
Horses for courses.
As an aside, is it only me that wants to reply to anyone who says 'spin to win' WTF have you won??

w00dster

I've said this on here lots before. I have a hill I train on in North Wales, its a small mountain near Betwsy Coed. 4.8 miles with an average gradient of 4.1%, some parts of the climb is in excess of 20%.
My fastest times up it are on my heavier winter bike (9kgs), with 32mm tyres but with 50/34 and 11/32. My uber light race bike has 53/39 and 11/28, this is regarded as a climbing bike as its about 6.8kgs. I'm close to a minute faster on the heavier bike with easier climbing gears (27 mins on average on the heavy bike with the 50/34 11-32, 27.38mins is the fastest on the light bike with the harder gears). The times are close but its a lot nicer having the easier gears to drop into when necessary.
Most short hills though I'm happy enough with the 53/39 and 11/28. Its just the long climbs especially when the gradient really kicks up that I need the easier spinning gears. Obviously this is only my perspective and other people may prefer to use a different approach.

lettingthedaysgoby

I’m happy with 50/34 and 11/32. I don’t mind the slightly bigger jumps between gears, and even though I rarely need the 34/32 combination, I’m always very glad it’s there when I do

As for 50/11, the only time I spin that out is going downhill. At which point I’m happy to let gravity do the work for me...

Horses for courses isn’t it? We all have different needs.

sloppyschleckonds

Svetty wrote:

A 50-28 gear will do for short punchy climbs and moderate gradient drags.

lol

svetty

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Svetty wrote:

A 50-28 gear will do for short punchy climbs and moderate gradient drags.

lol

You really are a waste of space bag of sh1te

Tiesetrotter

I have an earlier 11 speed Campag SR 50 - 34, so to change that it's a completely new chainset. So I stick to riding an 11 - 25. I then have an Ultegra 52 - 36 11 - 28 disc. Totally different bikes though, lightweight and a CAAD.

In the end I love the 50 - 34 because I can get away with an 11 - 25, which has a lovely smooth progression. If I was strong enough I'd do the 11 - 23.

But it is very marginal and you just use a different strategy for gears on the 52 - 36 i,e, more time in the 36.

shirley_basso

100% agree with Tiesetrotter.

Although where I ride is flat as a pancake so actually ride 11-25 and 52/36.