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Servicing Campy Record hubs

nachetetmnachetetm Posts: 41
edited September 2018 in Workshop
After a couple of very wet rides, my Campagnolo Record hubs (the last silver version, the one before the current back ones) seem a little bit gritty. I was wondering if injecting grease through their grease ports would be enough to keep them running but I am afraid it's not going to be enough. Most likely I will open and service them, but I have a few questions as this will be my first time.

The hubs have about 1000 kms since serviced (not by me) and I was wondering if that is a normal mileage to need some cleaning. I understand it was quite rainy but I am still surprised by their lack of waterproofing.

If serviced, would it be necessary to replace the bearings, or just cleaning should be enough?

What grease should I use to repack them?

Thanks!

Posts

  • mercia_manmercia_man Posts: 1,406
    Those hubs must be pretty old. I think Campag moved to the fat body black ones with no grease port in around 2007.

    I have those silver hubs on my tourer. I grease them through the little hole in the hub body until grease appears from the seals at each end of the hub. I buy regular Finish Line or Weldtite grease from Halfords etc, the sort that comes in a tube that screws onto a small narrow nose grease gun. Greasing and proper adjustment will help these hubs last for years. Mine are around 15 years old.

    The bearings that are most susceptible to contamination with dirt and water are on the rear drive side. Those are the only ones I have had to replace over the years.

    Greasing may be sufficient to get them running smoothly again. If not, these hubs are very easy to dismantle and adjust. You can find detailed instructions on the internet. You need to take care to re-insert the freehub side so that the pawls seat properly. And it's also a bit tricky to pop out the white rubber sealing rings to access the caged bearings (I use a small screwdriver). You can tell whether the bearings need replacing just by looking at them. If they are shiny, they are good. If they are badly dulled or rusty, replace them.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    If they have lasted 1000km since the last service then the bearings are worn and maybe the cones and cups are worn. These can be replaced. the full-service kit is HB-RE100 but removing the cups requires special tools that only good campag friendly shops have. It is worth doing as the afterward the hubs will run like new.

    It could also be worn freehub bearings. I have had mixed success in extracting the bearings from these freehubs. If you are lucky then they can be replaced. If not the freehub you have is FH-RE415 which is no longer made but the replacement FH-RE415 is actually the modern freehub FH-BUU015 and the modern axle FH-BO001. Fitting the modern axle and freehub is the way to replace the freehub if needed.

    My guess is beyond a bit of grease. I hate seeing that red grease inside hubs. It is not a proper bearing grease. A bearing grease webs like Rock n Roll super web but there are others. Using a proper bearing grease does extend the life of these hubs I have two sets and they simply are very reliable however they get serviced properly.

    The good news is all the parts that can wear can also be replaced so neglect cannot screw them up. So dismantle and if there is visible wear on the bearing cups you need to find a LBS that has the cyclus tools for removing the cups. Not many do. i do but I am not likely to be local to you. If the cups are fine then the cones and bearing are easy to replace at home without special tools.

    A service should be more than a cleanup and re-grease. That's half a job. The bearings HB-RE023 cost a fiver per side. If you go to the trouble of opening them up you might as well change them, this extends the life of the cones and cup considerably. The cones if they have any wear the part is HB-RE022.

    If you have damaged any of the seals these are HB-RE021.

    The service kit though HB-RE100 has 2x HB-RE023, 2x HB-RE022, 2x HB-RE124 and 2x HB-RE021 and it is cheaper that way than buying all the bits separately.

    The hub parts for the front hub are the same as the rear.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • Vino'sGhostVino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    If they have lasted 1000km since the last service then the bearings are worn and maybe the cones and cups are worn. These can be replaced. the full-service kit is HB-RE100 but removing the cups requires special tools that only good campag friendly shops have. It is worth doing as the afterward the hubs will run like new.

    It could also be worn freehub bearings. I have had mixed success in extracting the bearings from these freehubs. If you are lucky then they can be replaced. If not the freehub you have is FH-RE415 which is no longer made but the replacement FH-RE415 is actually the modern freehub FH-BUU015 and the modern axle FH-BO001. Fitting the modern axle and freehub is the way to replace the freehub if needed.

    My guess is beyond a bit of grease. I hate seeing that red grease inside hubs. It is not a proper bearing grease. A bearing grease webs like Rock n Roll super web but there are others. Using a proper bearing grease does extend the life of these hubs I have two sets and they simply are very reliable however they get serviced properly.

    The good news is all the parts that can wear can also be replaced so neglect cannot screw them up. So dismantle and if there is visible wear on the bearing cups you need to find a LBS that has the cyclus tools for removing the cups. Not many do. i do but I am not likely to be local to you. If the cups are fine then the cones and bearing are easy to replace at home without special tools.

    A service should be more than a cleanup and re-grease. That's half a job. The bearings HB-RE023 cost a fiver per side. If you go to the trouble of opening them up you might as well change them, this extends the life of the cones and cup considerably. The cones if they have any wear the part is HB-RE022.

    If you have damaged any of the seals these are HB-RE021.

    The service kit though HB-RE100 has 2x HB-RE023, 2x HB-RE022, 2x HB-RE124 and 2x HB-RE021 and it is cheaper that way than buying all the bits separately.

    The hub parts for the front hub are the same as the rear.

    Surely thats not right, youre saying if the bearings have lasted 650 miles between service theyre worn and possibly the cup and cones too? They need to be serviced every month?

    I used to have some of these and id do it before winter and the again in spring, used them in training wheels and rode in all sorts of weather, (this was when i used to contribute to other people’s prize money)
  • mercia_manmercia_man Posts: 1,406
    Cycleclinic’s advice is really useful for making a badly worn hub like new. One reason I like Campag is that parts are available to keep them running indefinitely. I replaced the old style free hub and axle with the later version a few years ago when it split.

    But before taking hub into a specialist Campag dealer to get the cups replaced and buying a service kit, I would suggest the OP takes hub apart, cleans everything, regreases and adjusts. It’s not hard to do and it would be a useful exercise to learn how to give the hub a service. This technique has certainly worked for me in keeping my early 2000s hub running smoothly over thousands of miles.
  • To give a bit more info, the hubs are old yes, I bought them second hand from a very reputable builder, who built them with new Halo Evaura (rebadged Kinlin XR22-T) rims and DT competition spokes. He packed them with new grease and ensured me the hubs were in good condition, and honestly don't have a doubt about it as they have been running faultlessly since I got them. However last week I did a six day bike trip and was quite rainy on the first and the fourth day. A lot of grease came out from the side of the hub and although they worked fine during all the trip, while cleaning the bike I got the feeling that the hubs are a bit gritty while turning the axle by hand. I was wondering if I could avoid opening the hub as I do not have experience but it seems unavoidable. If i find parts damaged I will check with the parts listed by thecycleclinic, but I hope it is just a matter of cleaning and adding new grease.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    vino ghost you do not know what service was done. service for most shops means re grease thats it. So the bearings maybe old and now worn. they were worn before the service and even more worn now. most shops dont have a clue how to service hubs properly.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    dismantle the hub for sure and inspect. If grease is coming out of the hub I would worry. that should never happen. Mine dont leak grease. A proper bearing grease does not get washed out. besides there are seals in there to stop that.

    Please take my advise when you open up clean by all means but replace the bearings and use proper bearing grease. none of the red shite from weldite. That fine for static bolts.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • Vino'sGhostVino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    vino ghost you do not know what service was done. service for most shops means re grease thats it. So the bearings maybe old and now worn. they were worn before the service and even more worn now. most shops dont have a clue how to service hubs properly.

    you said after a thousand K the bearings and probably the cups and cones would be worn. you assume they were already worn, it was not a correct assumption though your conclusions are not atypical of the suggestions of a bike shop owner, irrespective of wether the bike shop owner knows how to service a hub or not.
  • Finally I found the time (and the bravery) to open the front hub. Everything seems fine, but the grease was kind of a mayonnaise. I feel the rear will be the same, as it was exuding the same grey color, water-mixed grease. I assume that the seals must be not working well but, is it there any other part that may need replacement? Everything looked fine, tight and in good condition, but for some reason water is getting in. What do you think?
  • Replace the seals and bearing well you might as well. The seals are hb-re021 if you are correct about water getting in.

    Bearing cups and cones should be smooth and shiney. Any discolouration and they will never run smooth unless replaced.

    You can mess about changing this and that part finding it does not solve the problem or bite the bullet and fully refresh. Sometimes it's the only way.

    Vino ghost. I speak from experience having serviced many if these hubs and since I have not seen it assuming the worst is wise. Also the parts by them selves tot up to more than the service so the op might as well buy the service kit.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • After thorough cleaning, one of the front cones is definitely damaged. I assume the bearings should be replaced on that side. Regarding the sealings, they look ok to me, although the side facing the bearings seems extrange to me. If i can take a picture tomorrow I will share it here, but most likely I will replace them. Cups seem fine, also most of the bearings. I am going to contact the builder that sold me the hubs, let's see what he says. I am a bit surprised the cone has so many grooves.
  • does anyone else remember having to sort bottom bracket and wheel bearings monthly or more frequently?


    #oldgit
  • does anyone else remember having to sort bottom bracket and wheel bearings monthly or more frequently?


    #oldgit

    Definitely not me! I'm originally from Alicante, very dry all year round. Now that I live in Bretagne I can't believe how much maintenance is required to keep the bike running properly. Although I must admit my commuter with Tiagra 9spd and super cheap chinese hubs seems impervious to rain. I must admit I'm a bit confused. Italian parts seem very allergic to water :lol:
  • nachetetm wrote:
    does anyone else remember having to sort bottom bracket and wheel bearings monthly or more frequently?


    #oldgit

    Definitely not me! I'm originally from Alicante, very dry all year round. Now that I live in Bretagne I can't believe how much maintenance is required to keep the bike running properly. Although I must admit my commuter with Tiagra 9spd and super cheap chinese hubs seems impervious to rain. I must admit I'm a bit confused. Italian parts seem very allergic to water :lol:

    Haha yes and this has been a good summer. Keeps the bike shops busy though
  • nachetetm wrote:
    After thorough cleaning, one of the front cones is definitely damaged. I assume the bearings should be replaced on that side. Regarding the sealings, they look ok to me, although the side facing the bearings seems extrange to me. If i can take a picture tomorrow I will share it here, but most likely I will replace them. Cups seem fine, also most of the bearings. I am going to contact the builder that sold me the hubs, let's see what he says. I am a bit surprised the cone has so many grooves.
    So here are the pictures. I think two cones need replacement and the bearings as well. What do you think about the seals? Looking bad or normal?
    29930782337_36a2e7069d_z.jpg
    29930776817_58e9379986_z.jpg
    29930780647_64b24abaef_z.jpg
    29930783507_433b9ff35e_z.jpg
  • keezxkeezx Posts: 1,316
    Cones not quite clear , if not pitted> OK
    Seals OK
    Buy new balls grade 10 and push into the old rings.
  • PM the OP & agreed it might help others to share this openly.

    Just want say, I’m NO pro mechanic, just someone who love tools :-) bike tools specifically & working on my bikes!

    I have been riding my Campagnolo Neutron wheels for 2 summers (wet-ish Scottish kind though) & felt the front wheel was rough when spinning, so decided to do the servicing myself. I also have 2 further sets of Campagnolo wheels with “Record” grade hubs, so I thought it makes sense to get the necessary tools to do these myself whenever it needs. Needless to say …… I went a bit overboard :-)

    Got myself the following:

    1. Park tool Hub-Press HBP-1
    https://www.parktool.com/product/hub-be ... ed-section

    2. Cyclus Campagnolo bearing cup extractor Code no. 720 112
    https://www.bike24.com/p2276469.html?q= ... campagnolo
    (Be aware that Cyclus do a few of these, make sure you get the 720 112 model for the 25mm dia. “Oversize”, I made the mistake buying initially the “smaller” one - 720 082 which according to others fit some Campag hub cup as it’s only 23.4mm dia. but not this hub. Anyway, I have both now if/when I come across the smaller size ones)
    https://www.bike24.com/p2276437.html?q= ... campagnolo

    44226070024_821f840e9c_c.jpg


    3. The Hub servicing Kit HB-RE100 to replace the parts obviously.

    31074052188_ef0206e549_c.jpg
    44226058014_c560c8095f_c.jpg


    So, I went about taking the hub apart using my new acquired tools, in the process taken some images as well.

    31074057298_f7aed79baf_c.jpg

    44034327605_933f284c7b_c.jpg

    31074050328_d37f27da65_c.jpg

    31074044048_5db584b214_c.jpg

    44034330315_e3c6d83162_c.jpg
  • The old bearings on the non-drive side was in much poorer state than the drive side, so was the cups, both inner & outer. These will be replaced, but I might just re-use the old drive side “cups” since they seems to be fine.

    31074051688_85dd73ae8a_c.jpg

    44034321055_4bd5b48b4d_c.jpg

    44897722602_0e40a33aee_c.jpg

    44897723392_553c535ba1_c.jpg

    Now that everything is cleaned & new, the interesting part is re-installing all these back into the hub. The tricky bit is pressing the new outer cups back into the hub shell, I have pair the bearing drifts I have but none match the internal curve of the cup, since my drifts all have a sharp edge which means when sitting in the cup, it will not sit proper & squarely which will slide about a bit ……. not ideal.
    Now there is another “tool” that I can get, which according to the picture, will sit the cups nice & snug, pressing in the cups straight & square.

    https://www.totalcycling.com/en/gb/Cycl ... 19806.aspx

    But then that means more money :-( ....... probably un-avoidable if I don't want to chance it!

    I have spoken to my LBS mechanic who dread doing this particular job as he doesn’t have the specific tool either, he told me to approach it with caution, which I no doubt will.

    So, in the mean time, I still haven’t press these back in yet & are contemplating on getting the Cyclus Hubs press tool!

    I would appreciate if others have alternative experience on this!

    Till then, hope this helps & look forward to any feed back!

    Cheers
  • That is great info and help, thanks!!
  • mercia_manmercia_man Posts: 1,406
    Keezx wrote:
    Cones not quite clear , if not pitted> OK
    Seals OK
    Buy new balls grade 10 and push into the old rings.

    I’m with Keezx on this. Your hub doesn’t look too far gone. Perhaps a small pit on one cone but difficult to see. Certainly nothing like as bad as Look565wong’s. Either just replace the balls and press them in like Keezx says or buy Campag’s complete caged balls, grease thoroughly and adjust. I don’t think you need to replace everything from what I can see.

    As long as you keep your hubs greased, they will last for years. Mine have in Record, Nucleon and Neutron form. And it’s easy to do with the old style hubs with grease holes. I’ve always taken my Record hubs apart, cleaned and re-assembled once a year and greased through the port every six months until clean grease appears at each end. By all means use the top quality Rock and Roll grease sold by Cycle Clinic if you want the best. But I can’t say I’ve noticed any issues with the grease I’ve used over the years - Finish Line, Silkolene Pro RG2 red grease and Bikehut red grease (possibly rebranded Weldtite?). For ultimate water resistance, particularly when I used to have old unsealed Campag cup and cone bottom brackets and hubs, the Silkolene was great (even though it was red!) I had a big tub from my motorcycling days and worked through it over the years.
  • OP, as Mercia Man said, try it first with new balls or new caged balls, see how you get on. That's what I did first, just replace with new caged balls & grease, it was better but still rough nonetheless, hence taking the drastic action of extracting the cups from the hub shell altogether.

    Do you have pictures of the "out (bigger)" bearing cup that sits inside the hub? That way, folks can see & advise whether it requires replacing or not, as I think so far, you've only shown pictures of the "inner (smaller)" bearing cup.
  • OP, as Mercia Man said, try it first with new balls or new caged balls, see how you get on. That's what I did first, just replace with new caged balls & grease, it was better but still rough nonetheless, hence taking the drastic action of extracting the cups from the hub shell altogether.

    Do you have pictures of the "out (bigger)" bearing cup that sits inside the hub? That way, folks can see & advise whether it requires replacing or not, as I think so far, you've only shown pictures of the "inner (smaller)" bearing cup.

    I did take pictures from the cups, although you can't really see anything due to the light, that is why I didn't share them. Two cups have a bit of stain but they are not pitted. They other two look like new.

    44900685442_3594fbdd90_c.jpg
    44037257155_a285dce183_c.jpg

    I'll go with the new balls. New seals are not needed? I thought that should be the cause for getting water in.
  • Going by your picture, I think your seals look fine to me. I would re-use it!

    P.S By the way, I love the look of silver colour hubs :-)
  • they look pretty good to me :) like others have said bearings and grease. I tend to only bother changing the balls if theyre no longer shiny.
  • keezxkeezx Posts: 1,316
    CUT

    But then that means more money :-( ....... probably un-avoidable if I don't want to chance it!

    I have spoken to my LBS mechanic who dread doing this particular job as he doesn’t have the specific tool either, he told me to approach it with caution, which I no doubt will.

    So, in the mean time, I still haven’t press these back in yet & are contemplating on getting the Cyclus Hubs press tool!

    I would appreciate if others have alternative experience on this!

    Till then, hope this helps & look forward to any feed back!

    Cheers

    I never bothered buying any special tools for this job.
    Nocked the races out with an old large , bent (with some heath) screwdriver from the opposite side.
    Nocked the new ones in with a matching socket (I own a lot of them being car mechanic too)
    It's all pretty straightforward, no rocket science involved....
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