Quiet turbo - power meter - Garmin edge 500

craigus89

Completely new to power training, I've been considering getting a smart trainer for a while for the winter to try and do some focused training. However, I really don't think I am bothered about Zwift etc, I'd rather just get the sessions done, I usually don't have a problem with motivation and don't think Zwift would be the answer.

So my thinking is rather than spend a lot on a smart trainer, for similar money I could get a 'dumb' turbo and a power meter so that I can start training outside too when the good weather arrives next year. Any recommendations for reasonably priced turbo's that are fairly quiet? Not bothered if it's wheel on or direct drive. Presumably there is no reason this won't work with a power meter?

Also I currently use a Garmin edge 500, it's fine for what I need and would rather not have to change this. Can I get all the power data I need from this unit?

Thanks.

tonysj

I have a tacx flow smart trainer since last year. Used it with trainer road and while watching youtube turbo training videos. Not had any problems but I use mainly in the garage so noise is not an issue. It will display power from the turbo onto my Garmin 1000 so not sure about your garmin 500 and functionality.
Regards.
Tony

fenix

This is as silent as your drive chain and no wear on your tyre either.

https://www.staczero.com/hero

Yes your garmin will show you your power as it would on the road.

Unless you're planning on racing to power it's probably cheaper to get a turbo that records your virtual power and train to that. So long as it's consistent...

jgsi

I like my Turbo Muin Smart B.. got it for 290.
I use it with a PM, so you need to offset the Muin's own power data by minus 20% as it overreads.
Handy for the Zwifters though.... pure digital EPO
Dont suffer wheel on turbos these days.

craigus89

Fenix wrote:

This is as silent as your drive chain and no wear on your tyre either.

https://www.staczero.com/hero

Yes your garmin will show you your power as it would on the road.

Unless you're planning on racing to power it's probably cheaper to get a turbo that records your virtual power and train to that. So long as it's consistent...

Thanks for the info. I'm leaning towards a power meter as I would much rather be doing the training outdoors whenever I can, the turbo would just be used over winter when I really don't fancy being outside.

cougie

Much easier to train to power indoors. Outside is a nightmare with wind terrain and traffic. So hard to get any consistency.

StillGoing

If you're on a restricted budget and don't have much use for a turbo, then it makes sense to go for a power meter and a dumb direct mount turbo. You can then at least get the benefit of the power ranges outside whilst you do your testing indoors. As someone else said, don't bother with wheel on turbos. If on the other hand you were going to be making plenty of use of a turbo, I'd say go for a direct mount smart trainer.

singleton

I got a Elite Turbo Muin Smart B+ at the end of summer and it's great for me.
Very quiet and can use with Sufferfest - which has lots of structured plans which give great variety indoors.

craigus89

Is it really that hard to train to power outside? I've heard people say that in the past because of traffic etc. I assume that they just live somewhere very busy. I usually cycle on very quiet roads, surely if you think ahead and plan where you are going to do your intervals etc it can't be that hard?

I just don't want to spend an hour on the turbo in the summer evenings if I could be outside riding. That is not the primary idea of getting the turbo.

Any further recommendations for a quiet direct drive turbo? Around the £300-£400 mark.

whyamihere

Craigus89 wrote:

Is it really that hard to train to power outside? I've heard people say that in the past because of traffic etc. I assume that they just live somewhere very busy. I usually cycle on very quiet roads, surely if you think ahead and plan where you are going to do your intervals etc it can't be that hard?

I just don't want to spend an hour on the turbo in the summer evenings if I could be outside riding. That is not the primary idea of getting the turbo.

Any further recommendations for a quiet direct drive turbo? Around the £300-£400 mark.

It depends what you're trying to do as to whether it is harder to train outdoors. It may be difficult to find suitable roads without any junctions for a 20 minute effort, for example. I also prefer to do the harder efforts on the turbo because I don't have to think about being on the road with the potential for traffic when emptying the tank completely. On the other hand, intervals up a steady climb can be much more 'pleasant' on the road compared to the turbo.

VamP

Craigus89 wrote:

Is it really that hard to train to power outside? I've heard people say that in the past because of traffic etc. I assume that they just live somewhere very busy. I usually cycle on very quiet roads, surely if you think ahead and plan where you are going to do your intervals etc it can't be that hard?

I just don't want to spend an hour on the turbo in the summer evenings if I could be outside riding. That is not the primary idea of getting the turbo.

Any further recommendations for a quiet direct drive turbo? Around the £300-£400 mark.

No it's fine. I have been doing 98% of my training outside, and with a bit of practice and good road selection, I can knock out pretty much any interval bang on target.

FWIW, I am not fan of indoor training, but having had it foisted upon me by injury, I find Zwift makes a vast difference to the experience. A dumb turbo, power meter and ANT+ stick is all you need. Edge 500 is totally fine BTW, I still use it for everything.

If I was deciding whether to spend money on a PM or smart turbo, it'd be PM every time.

craigus89

VamP wrote:

Craigus89 wrote:

Is it really that hard to train to power outside? I've heard people say that in the past because of traffic etc. I assume that they just live somewhere very busy. I usually cycle on very quiet roads, surely if you think ahead and plan where you are going to do your intervals etc it can't be that hard?

I just don't want to spend an hour on the turbo in the summer evenings if I could be outside riding. That is not the primary idea of getting the turbo.

Any further recommendations for a quiet direct drive turbo? Around the £300-£400 mark.

No it's fine. I have been doing 98% of my training outside, and with a bit of practice and good road selection, I can knock out pretty much any interval bang on target.

FWIW, I am not fan of indoor training, but having had it foisted upon me by injury, I find Zwift makes a vast difference to the experience. A dumb turbo, power meter and ANT+ stick is all you need. Edge 500 is totally fine BTW, I still use it for everything.

If I was deciding whether to spend money on a PM or smart turbo, it'd be PM every time.

Thanks for the reply. I am pretty much decided that this is the way for me to go now, I'd rather my training be slightly less efficient and be outside than be stuck indoors, that's not why I cycle. Just got to choose power meter now.

VamP

Craigus89 wrote:

VamP wrote:

Craigus89 wrote:

Is it really that hard to train to power outside? I've heard people say that in the past because of traffic etc. I assume that they just live somewhere very busy. I usually cycle on very quiet roads, surely if you think ahead and plan where you are going to do your intervals etc it can't be that hard?

I just don't want to spend an hour on the turbo in the summer evenings if I could be outside riding. That is not the primary idea of getting the turbo.

Any further recommendations for a quiet direct drive turbo? Around the £300-£400 mark.

No it's fine. I have been doing 98% of my training outside, and with a bit of practice and good road selection, I can knock out pretty much any interval bang on target.

FWIW, I am not fan of indoor training, but having had it foisted upon me by injury, I find Zwift makes a vast difference to the experience. A dumb turbo, power meter and ANT+ stick is all you need. Edge 500 is totally fine BTW, I still use it for everything.

If I was deciding whether to spend money on a PM or smart turbo, it'd be PM every time.

Thanks for the reply. I am pretty much decided that this is the way for me to go now, I'd rather my training be slightly less efficient and be outside than be stuck indoors, that's not why I cycle. Just got to choose power meter now.

I don't even think it's less efficient. A lot of people (most?) have a power gap when training on the turbo and achieve their best power durations outdoors. I also find it really hard to do easy rides indoors due to boredom, so now my training is really skewed towards high intensity.

stevewj

used to hate turbo. Now do 10hrs a week on it using Zwift which I find brilliant. I use a powertap with an ANT+ dongle and a second one for the HR. Works really well. A 'dumb' trainer is excellent and avoids all the problems a lot of the smart setups seem to get.

Bumo_b

I recently purchased a Elite Smart Muin from Halfords, was £250 but currently at £300.
Far better feel than my dumb trainer and my good lady doesn't have to go upstairs to escape the noise. The power was inaccurate but managed to change that by following a youtube video that covers the issue. Now have it to within 5% most of the time (checked with power meter)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzS6ZuWvmd4
Love the thing now, and no issues with pairing etc

StillGoing

Bumo_b wrote:

I recently purchased a Elite Smart Muin from Halfords, was £250 but currently at £300.
Far better feel than my dumb trainer and my good lady doesn't have to go upstairs to escape the noise. The power was inaccurate but managed to change that by following a youtube video that covers the issue. Now have it to within 5% most of the time (checked with power meter)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzS6ZuWvmd4
Love the thing now, and no issues with pairing etc

Don't forget that the power from the direct drive turbo will be lower due to drive chain losses. Power is only coming from what the turbo picks up at the "rear wheel", whereas a power meter will be picking up the reading from the crank arm, pedals or spider.

VamP

philthy3 wrote:

Bumo_b wrote:

I recently purchased a Elite Smart Muin from Halfords, was £250 but currently at £300.
Far better feel than my dumb trainer and my good lady doesn't have to go upstairs to escape the noise. The power was inaccurate but managed to change that by following a youtube video that covers the issue. Now have it to within 5% most of the time (checked with power meter)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzS6ZuWvmd4
Love the thing now, and no issues with pairing etc

Don't forget that the power from the direct drive turbo will be lower due to drive chain losses. Power is only coming from what the turbo picks up at the "rear wheel", whereas a power meter will be picking up the reading from the crank arm, pedals or spider.

Seeing as the Muin range are well known for over-reading by up to 20%, I reckon the slight loss due to drive train friction will be well compensated for :-)

StillGoing

VamP wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Bumo_b wrote:

I recently purchased a Elite Smart Muin from Halfords, was £250 but currently at £300.
Far better feel than my dumb trainer and my good lady doesn't have to go upstairs to escape the noise. The power was inaccurate but managed to change that by following a youtube video that covers the issue. Now have it to within 5% most of the time (checked with power meter)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzS6ZuWvmd4
Love the thing now, and no issues with pairing etc

Don't forget that the power from the direct drive turbo will be lower due to drive chain losses. Power is only coming from what the turbo picks up at the "rear wheel", whereas a power meter will be picking up the reading from the crank arm, pedals or spider.

Seeing as the Muin range are well known for over-reading by up to 20%, I reckon the slight loss due to drive train friction will be well compensated for :-)

I couldn't comment on the Muin as I use a Direto and that is as near as spot on with my P2M (with drive chain losses) as I would expect.

Bumo_b

You can adjust the belt tension on the muin fairly easily, and I have managed to get mine within 5%. No doubt there are better direct trainers out there, but they were out of my budget of under £300. The noise level on the muin is incredibly quiet

zeee

Craigus89 wrote:

Is it really that hard to train to power outside? I've heard people say that in the past because of traffic etc. I assume that they just live somewhere very busy. I usually cycle on very quiet roads, surely if you think ahead and plan where you are going to do your intervals etc it can't be that hard?

I just don't want to spend an hour on the turbo in the summer evenings if I could be outside riding. That is not the primary idea of getting the turbo.

Any further recommendations for a quiet direct drive turbo? Around the £300-£400 mark.

Tacx flux direct drive £450 from halfords. £416 with NHS discount (they didn't even ask to see my Id)