Aspartame Adrenal Fatigue And Leg Pain?

bobbydigital

Hi there,


I have been cycling for about 2-2.5 years now and since around year ago I have noticed that I get many different issues with my legs, mainly in the knee area.

I have had X rays and the bones are in good shape and I am currently waiting for physiotherapy, it's been a 6 month wait so far.

Issues I get often

Pain on the inner sides of both knees 1/2 days after cycling

Tenderness on the inner thighs, often the veins their feels sore and inflammed

Previously I had problems walking up inclines, I would get pain between the top of my right shin and inner right knee.
Sometimes I get pain that feels central on the knee caps, a sharp shooting pain that doesn't last for a long time.


I have tried adjusting seat height, seat position on the rails, using clipless pedal, shorter crank length and doing stretches.
I have looked at cadence and try to keep things on a nice comfortable pace.
I started doing lunges and noticed an improvement in my ability to walk up hills, it pretty much cured the problem but pain after cycling is still an issue.

I am at a loss really and tend to avoid riding my bike.

I have a chiropractor that I see 2/3 times a year and the guy has done an excellent job with my back, I asked him to look at my knees and one of the first questions he asked was do I drink diet drinks and then started to talk about Aspartame, saying it can poison your nervous system and effect the Adrenal glands which in tern can affect muscles, joints and ligaments, I drink like 2/3 diet cokes, pepsi maxs a day. . .


So really I'm just after some advice, what it could be, if my symptoms sound similar to others on the site.
I am 32 years old, 70kg and other than the leg pain I'd say I'm pretty healthy.

bompington

Bobbydigital wrote:

I have a chiropractor that I see

There's your problem
https://health.spectator.co.uk/the-evid ... than-good/

cooldad

What he said. ^^^^^^^^^^^

Snake oil salesman.

bompington

But don't worry, your chiropractor should easily be able to cure aspartame poisoning by manipulating your spine.

Mind you, aspartame conspiracy theories aside, you could probably do with laying off the artificially sweetened drinks - that's no real evidence that aspartame itself is bad for you, but actually quite a lot that, due to your body's response to the sweet taste, artificially sweet stuff is.

steve_sordy

I would advise against a chiropractor for your problem. I saw a chiropractor from mid-2005 until the end of 2008, so 3.5 years. I was happy with the ones I saw, but my problem was something they like to fix, back problems. There is no doubt that they got me moving again, but I find that their whole philosophy is a bit suspect.

At the end of 2008, having been a mountain biker for all of four months, I was reading a MTB magazine and in the health section 3/3 medical responders to a question about back problems advised Pilates. I signed up in Jan'09 and I haven't missed a week since! My back problems are minuscule now compared to before and I can do the exercises myself without having to pay someone. I never went back to the chiropractor as I felt that I was limping along from one appointment to the next but without an actual cure in sight. Pilates improved my core muscles, balance and flexibility out of all expectation. It is a fantastic thing to do for MTB.

It was while I was attending the Pilates classes that the instructor noticed that for several weeks running I had been suffering from shoulder problems. I was told that the practice also had four physiotherapists and that I should see one of them.

It was a revelation! For £35 I was diagnosed, treated, and given a course of exercises to fix the problem. They worked and I've been a fan of physiotherapy ever since. Shoulders, knees, feet, back (again), all sorted.

More specifically, and coming from a different tack.... It may be that your knee problem arises from misalignment of the lower limbs. When you put power down over an extended period, the misalignment exerts a twisting onto the knee joint that will cause pain. For me this was any ride of more than 16 miles, 15 was OK, but not 16. The pain took a few days to dissipate. Diagnosis of misalignment is easy. In bare feet stand on one leg and do a deep knee bend. If you have no misalignment, the knee should track in a straight line in line with the foot. Do both legs and be prepared for them to be different. They may both track left, right, one of each, or just one in either direction. According to a podiatrist of my acquaintance, most have some misalignment.

The cure (yes, a cure) is to put wedges under the ball of the foot to prop up the foot to the left or right. The correct wedge will ensure that your deep knee bend has the knee tracking in line with the foot. I was able to buy the wedges from Specialized, but they only come with Specialised BG shoes now (people like me were using the wedges in competitors shoes). So unless you do that, the only other option is to go see a podiatrist.

Do the test, if it's misalignment, go see a podiatrist. If no misalignment, go see a physio.

IanHg

steve_sordy wrote:

I was able to buy the wedges from Specialized, but they only come with Specialised BG shoes now (people like me were using the wedges in competitors shoes). So unless you do that, the only other option is to go see a podiatrist.

You can buy Specialized & Bikefit, forefoot & heel wedges & footbeds from https://www.sigmasports.com/

https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Specia ... Varus/DF6F
https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Bikefi ... -pair/6PRP

etc

steve_sordy

IanHg wrote:

............

You can buy Specialized & Bikefit, forefoot & heel wedges & footbeds from https://www.sigmasports.com/

https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Specia ... Varus/DF6F
https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Bikefi ... -pair/6PRP

etc

Wow, that's great! Many thanks
I have tried several times to find the wedges, but without success. I hadn't heard of the heel wedges before. The description for the ball of the foot wedges is a bit lacking. It doesn't say how many there are in each pack, what thickness, nor which way they tilt the foot.

keef66

I've heard a lot of aspartame scare stories, but that's a new one! Whatever's causing your knee pain, it isn't diet Coke.
Sounds like you need to see somebody who knows about knees. Get your GP to refer you. X-rays won't show if you have cartilage or other soft tissue damage, you need an MRI scan for that.

I have a DVD with my left knee MRI images. Unfortunately my consultant says there's nothing surgically he can do with what's left of the cartilage so I'm stuck with being very careful not to twist it, and ibuprofen if it flares up. Fortunately cycling seems to be the one thing that doesn't aggravate it.

IanHg

steve_sordy wrote:

IanHg wrote:

............

You can buy Specialized & Bikefit, forefoot & heel wedges & footbeds from https://www.sigmasports.com/

https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Specia ... Varus/DF6F
https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Bikefi ... -pair/6PRP

etc

Wow, that's great! Many thanks
I have tried several times to find the wedges, but without success. I hadn't heard of the heel wedges before. The description for the ball of the foot wedges is a bit lacking. It doesn't say how many there are in each pack, what thickness, nor which way they tilt the foot.

2 in each pack, each gives a 1.5mm lift & you can stack them for more tilt. Varus (Orange) lift the inside of the foot (the most common correction). Valgus (yellow) lift the outside & are less common.

steve_sordy

IanHg wrote:

steve_sordy wrote:

IanHg wrote:

............

You can buy Specialized & Bikefit, forefoot & heel wedges & footbeds from https://www.sigmasports.com/

https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Specia ... Varus/DF6F
https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Bikefi ... -pair/6PRP

etc

Wow, that's great! Many thanks
I have tried several times to find the wedges, but without success. I hadn't heard of the heel wedges before. The description for the ball of the foot wedges is a bit lacking. It doesn't say how many there are in each pack, what thickness, nor which way they tilt the foot.

2 in each pack, each gives a 1.5mm lift & you can stack them for more tilt. Varus (Orange) lift the inside of the foot (the most common correction). Valgus (yellow) lift the outside & are less common.

Is that two left and two right,each 1.5mm. If so, why not remove doubt and say so?

Anyway, two Varus under each ball of foot is what I have been using for years. They are getting a bit worn now and I could do with some new ones; they may no longer be 3mm any more!

IanHg

steve_sordy wrote:

IanHg wrote:

steve_sordy wrote:

IanHg wrote:

............

Is that two left and two right,each 1.5mm. If so, why not remove doubt and say so?

Anyway, two Varus under each ball of foot is what I have been using for years. They are getting a bit worn now and I could do with some new ones; they may no longer be 3mm any more!

Yeah I had to do a bit of Googling to work out what was what. They fit either foot - just flip them over & it's 1.5mm each. I have 2 in each shoe with double sided tape to hold them in position.

steve_sordy

IanHg wrote:

steve_sordy wrote:

IanHg wrote:

steve_sordy wrote:

IanHg wrote:

............

Is that two left and two right,each 1.5mm. If so, why not remove doubt and say so?

Anyway, two Varus under each ball of foot is what I have been using for years. They are getting a bit worn now and I could do with some new ones; they may no longer be 3mm any more!

Yeah I had to do a bit of Googling to work out what was what. They fit either foot - just flip them over & it's 1.5mm each. I have 2 in each shoe with double sided tape to hold them in position.

I have two stapled to each insole and then the staples painted with colourless nail varnish to stop them rusting. I remove the insoles to assist drying.

bobbydigital

I should have said I had a very bad back which my Chiropractor has sorted out. Going from constantly in pain, couldn't do one pull up without having days of pain, now able to lift weights trouble free and generally have okay back health.

The theory is the chemical in diet drinks can wear out the adrenal glands which can lead to so many different things, it was just an option, my problems seemed way beyond what 330ml of diet cola could do but I wanted to see what others thought about it. Studies, stuff on the internet claimed 2/3 cans a day could cause issues but who knows, there's loads of stories about it but it seems man made which is a good reason for me to limit my consumption.

I did originally feel it might be a ligament issue but the NHS has been very slow and with the cost of my back I was being a cheap skate and didn't want to fork out 2 private health cares at once. The research I did pointed towards a MCL injury, that each time my legs would feel good, I would ride and a day or so later they would ache, so they had no repaired full in that time.

After doing lunges I found my legs to be a lot better, stronger more stable but not quite 100%, I dread getting back on the bike as I don't want a 3 days to a week to recover every time but I built a inbred 29er and just want to ride it all the time.

I normally walk the dogs for 5 miles or so a day, do a lot of walking to the shops etc without issue, I can run/cycle but the day after it's telling me something is wrong.

I think maybe having 175 cranks when I am 170cm short/tall with 30 inseam causes a lot of it, compressing my knee as it was going up too high.

I will have to keep an eye on those inserts, wearing shoes ins't natural and I think it can alter your alignment if you wear them all the time, so trying to get them spot on for your foot type seems logical, just seems like I have to do quite a lot and other people jump on a bike, ride and never have to alter anything, my mates are clueless about bike fit, saddle height etc yet they get no issues.

steve_sordy

Bobbydigital wrote:

............

.............., my mates are clueless about bike fit, saddle height etc yet they get no issues.

Not yet!

PS: I'm glad that your back problem has been resolved. But if you want to keep it that way, ensure that you keep your core muscles nice and strong.

bobbydigital

Thanks, I try to keep in shape.

I have my physical therapy on tuesday, kind of looking forward to it after so long waiting.

angry_bird

Bobbydigital wrote:

The theory is the chemical in diet drinks can wear out the adrenal glands which can lead to so many different things, it was just an option, my problems seemed way beyond what 330ml of diet cola could do but I wanted to see what others thought about it. Studies, stuff on the internet claimed 2/3 cans a day could cause issues but who knows, there's loads of stories about it but it seems man made which is a good reason for me to limit my consumption.

Sorry this really grates on me, mostly due to countless from consults where doctor Google has already "done the job". Any links to these studies or stuff, I'm genuinely interested? A brief search of a few databases shows next to no literature of there being a link between aspartame and adrenal problems, certainly in adults.

"Stuff" on the internet claiming that x does this I'd generally ignore, unless it can provide a decent level of evidence with a good methodology to back it up, a study saying "aspartame does so and so" where they've used some ludicrous amount the substance isn't very relevant, neither are studies that show y happened if you take the substance but don't account for everything else going on. I'd tend to ignore anecdotal "n=1" cases where someone had a certain problem and stopped consuming or taking a substance, and the problem resolved. Just because one case suggests a link, doesn't mean there is one, particularly when there's a whole other population where we don't see this happen.

I know people claim "aspartame has never been proved safe", how the hell do you prove anything like that is safe 100%, new evidence could always be uncovered, heck for all we know consuming an average of 500g of potatoes per day for every day of your life could increase your risk of bowel cancer by 2% or something. Who knows what's safe and what isn't?

With regards to aspartame and it causing an adrenal problem, there doesn't appear to be evidence of it. Quite how your chiropractor makes the link between your adrenal gland and your knee hurting after you ride I have no idea.

Sure there may be problems that aspartame does cause, but your knee pain, that comes after cycling, I don't think I'd be cutting out your Pepsi Max for that reason.

timothyw

I don't get why this is even a subject.

If you think aspartame is causing you adrenal fatigue and leg pain, stop drinking it, drink water.... if you need the caffeine, drink tea, pop a pro plus, or drink full fat pepsi/coke.

keef66

It is simply not possible to prove a negative. Best we can ever hope to do is look at the weight of evidence and balance of probability. And remember that nothing is completely risk free. They should teach this stuff in school.

The most dangerous things I do every day are getting out of bed and driving to work. Drinking Diet Coke is a lot safer than either of those...

angry_bird

Just had a look and found a paper linking potatoes to an increased risk of colorectal cancer. Who knew?

veronese68

Angry Bird wrote:

Just had a look and found a paper linking potatoes to an increased risk of colorectal cancer. Who knew?

Let me guess, the vast majority of patients with colorectal cancer have eaten potatoes. The fact that the vast majority of people have eaten potatoes is purely coincidental. My dad has eaten potatoes so it must be true, now I can blame the evil potato.

I'd agree with what Steve S said above about going to a physio rather than a chiropractor. Sorted my back and gave me exercises to prevent a repeat rather than dealing with the symptoms and hoping I'd come back.

angry_bird

Veronese68 wrote:

Angry Bird wrote:

Just had a look and found a paper linking potatoes to an increased risk of colorectal cancer. Who knew?

Let me guess, the vast majority of patients with colorectal cancer have eaten potatoes. The fact that the vast majority of people have eaten potatoes is purely coincidental. My dad has eaten potatoes so it must be true, now I can blame the evil potato.

I'd agree with what Steve S said above about going to a physio rather than a chiropractor. Sorted my back and gave me exercises to prevent a repeat rather than dealing with the symptoms and hoping I'd come back.

Actually eating people eating >3 potatoes per day were reported to be 1.32x more likely to develop it than people who eat <7 potatoes per week. I’m not sure how big the potato had to be and I have better things to do (supposedly) than find out, although it was a large study so I hope/assume they’ve worked out a way to account for it.

The study was in women though, so unfortunately I don’t think you can blame potatoes this time.

+potato about the physio though, many injuries helped by physios and a list of excercises for me to feel guilty about not doing frequently enough.

keef66

Scientific literature is awash with papers describing correlation between 2 things and then erroneously concluding cause and effect. It's especially difficult with dietary studies. Even if you could find 2 cohorts, one of which had never eaten potatoes and the other which consumed them daily, I'm guessing that there would be major differences in other components of their diet, goegraphy, lifestyle, genetics etc etc. And you can't really, practically or ethically, take 2 lots of people and get them to adhere strictly to nutritionally identical but potato based vs potato free diets for many decades while monitoring their health. Maybe in North Korea. Except they don't have any potatoes...

angry_bird

keef66 wrote:

Scientific literature is awash with papers describing correlation between 2 things and then erroneously concluding cause and effect. It's especially difficult with dietary studies. Even if you could find 2 cohorts, one of which had never eaten potatoes and the other which consumed them daily, I'm guessing that there would be major differences in other components of their diet, goegraphy, lifestyle, genetics etc etc. And you can't really, practically or ethically, take 2 lots of people and get them to adhere strictly to nutritionally identical but potato based vs potato free diets for many decades while monitoring their health. Maybe in North Korea. Except they don't have any potatoes...

Agreed, correlation does not imply causality and study design must be taken into account when evaluating results.

keef66

And resistant starch (from potatoes among other things) is currently enjoying a lot of positive PR as a prebiotic / sleep aid

bobbydigital

Don't shoot the messanger :roll:

I went to chiro for back problerms, not for knee pain but asked their opinion on the matter, gaining knowledge from many different sources is a good way to weigh things up.

I had physical thraphy,

Seems like a weakness in the quads, specifically on the inner sides, exercises given, return for follow up in 6 weeks.
No evdience of ligament problems.