Correct headset tightness

benws1

PhotoNic69 wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

Its the pads moving in the calliper, perfectly normal on disc brake bike.

TBH if you are squeezing the brakes hard then the clamping action of the calipers on the pads and disk shouldn't allow any movement especially at the forces of moving bike back and forward by hand and not with a 80kgs rider going down a 14% hill and applying brakes

I tried rocking the bike with the steering at 90 degrees. No movement at all. I straightened the bars and tried again, bit of movement.

Maybe I need to go tighter.

benws1

keef66 wrote:

"I have learned how it should be tightened etc,"

Just for the avoidance of doubt, you are loosening the 2 pinch bolts before tightening the top cap?

Yes.

benws1

NitrousOxide wrote:

Check the bung bolt in the Cube's steerer tube, it may be loose (I tightened mine to 4nM, it was may looser), the knurled bit should be completely inside the steerer. Mine was so so loose that over time, the topcap was minuteky pulling the bung out of the steerer!

I've had at least a 5mm spacer between the stem and topcap, to ensure the spacer sits at least 3mm higher than the steerer, so the topcap can preload properly, while the stem steerer bolts are loose.

Recently moved another 15mm of spacers above stem, so the stem isn't sitting around the bung, but it's a bit odd they have a bung inside an alloy steerer.

Topcap tightened to ~4nM.

Then stem steerer bolts tightened to 5nM.

Thanks.

Is the bung bolt the one the top cap bolt screws into?

Haven't taken the Cube one apart yet, just tightened it.

benws1

PhotoNic69 wrote:

Brakes on. Wheel at 90 degrees. Thumb and forefinger at point where fork/steerer enters head tube. Rock bike back and forward. Slacken off preload until you can feel movement. Tighten until movement disappears. Check again where steerer comes out at top of head tube. Tighten stem bolts. Job done. Ride bike. Check again and tighten more if required.

Did that today. No movement at all when the wheel is at 90 degrees. There is movement when it's straight though.

When I bought the Raleigh, the top nut was tightened quite a lot. The headset was really noisy and clicky. Since I slackened it off, it's been a lot quieter.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

benws1 wrote:

NitrousOxide wrote:

Check the bung bolt in the Cube's steerer tube, it may be loose (I tightened mine to 4nM, it was may looser), the knurled bit should be completely inside the steerer. Mine was so so loose that over time, the topcap was minuteky pulling the bung out of the steerer!

I've had at least a 5mm spacer between the stem and topcap, to ensure the spacer sits at least 3mm higher than the steerer, so the topcap can preload properly, while the stem steerer bolts are loose.

Recently moved another 15mm of spacers above stem, so the stem isn't sitting around the bung, but it's a bit odd they have a bung inside an alloy steerer.

Topcap tightened to ~4nM.

Then stem steerer bolts tightened to 5nM.

Thanks.

Is the bung bolt the one the top cap bolt screws into?

Haven't taken the Cube one apart yet, just tightened it.

The bung bolt is recessed below the screw thread for the topcap bolt.

benws1

Just been out in the garage and did a little experiment. I undid everything and then tightened the headset a lot. More than I was comfortable with. The little bit of movement was still there. The headset was so tight I couldn't event move the wheel separately to the handlebars even with the pinch bolts loosened.

I guess this is just something on the Raleigh. Could be the fattish tyres with only 60 psi in, could be the crappy cable disc brakes, could be anything. I can't remove the play even with headset bolt tightened really tight.

Who knows. I'm going to leave it for now and just ride the thing.

I do know that when I bought the bike the headset was a lot tighter. It was making a hell of a racket when riding. Since I took it apart and greased it all up properly it has been silent. Albeit with this slight movement when wobbling the bike.

cooldad

benws1 wrote:

Just been out in the garage and did a little experiment. I undid everything and then tightened the headset a lot. More than I was comfortable with. The little bit of movement was still there. The headset was so tight I couldn't event move the wheel separately to the handlebars even with the pinch bolts loosened.

I guess this is just something on the Raleigh. Could be the fattish tyres with only 60 psi in, could be the crappy cable disc brakes, could be anything. I can't remove the play even with headset bolt tightened really tight.

Who knows. I'm going to leave it for now and just ride the thing.

I do know that when I bought the bike the headset was a lot tighter. It was making a hell of a racket when riding. Since I took it apart and greased it all up properly it has been silent. Albeit with this slight movement when wobbling the bike.

Did you miss?

The Rookie wrote:

Its the pads moving in the calliper, perfectly normal on disc brake bike.

benws1

Just a quick note as I probably haven't explained the issue properly. The movement is not at the headset and I can't feel anything when holding it with my thumb and finger and rocking the bike. I think the movement is coming from somewhere else so it probably isn't the headset at all.

I've just watched some vids online and they all talk about feeling movement at the headset point. I can't feel any there. Unless I'm missing something.

benws1

cooldad wrote:

benws1 wrote:

Just been out in the garage and did a little experiment. I undid everything and then tightened the headset a lot. More than I was comfortable with. The little bit of movement was still there. The headset was so tight I couldn't event move the wheel separately to the handlebars even with the pinch bolts loosened.

I guess this is just something on the Raleigh. Could be the fattish tyres with only 60 psi in, could be the crappy cable disc brakes, could be anything. I can't remove the play even with headset bolt tightened really tight.

Who knows. I'm going to leave it for now and just ride the thing.

I do know that when I bought the bike the headset was a lot tighter. It was making a hell of a racket when riding. Since I took it apart and greased it all up properly it has been silent. Albeit with this slight movement when wobbling the bike.

Did you miss?

The Rookie wrote:

Its the pads moving in the calliper, perfectly normal on disc brake bike.

Whioops. I think I did. Can't believe I didn't spot that.

Sorry.

photonic69

You'll get flex and movement on most bikes. It's called "complience". It's a fact of physics that most materials bend and distort even a tiny bit. Carbon forks do this to absorb road buzz. Without it bikes would be very tiring to ride.
I've just checked 5 bikes this evening. 3 road bikes, a hybrid and a MTB with road-sih tyres. They all move and "knock" when rocking back and forth. All headsets are fine. All brakes are fine. Unless it is causing you an issue when riding then forget about it. Enjoy the ride

paulbnix

benws1 wrote:

These are pre built manufacturer bikes so I'm guessing they are ok. I just need to be tightening them more.

It’s still worth a check if you keep tightening and there is still a knock.

jermas

The preload on the top cap should be set to the minimum possible -just enough to stop the headset knocking. Anything needing more than short side of L shaped allen key will be too much . 4NM-5NM-8NM as mentioned previously will cause rapid bearing wear (especially the lower one). Also the bung/star nut will probably be pulled up.

BikerGroveish

jermas wrote:

The preload on the top cap should be set to the minimum possible -just enough to stop the headset knocking. Anything needing more than short side of L shaped allen key will be too much . 4NM-5NM-8NM as mentioned previously will cause rapid bearing wear (especially the lower one). Also the bung/star nut will probably be pulled up.

Rubbish.


I’ve always tightened up to the point the play stops just using an Allen key, then checked what torque that is with a torque wrench. 5N.m has never overtightened, and certainly hasn’t pulled the bung / star nut up the steerer. That said, 8N.m is a red herring. The 8N.m stamp was referring to the torque required to expand the bung in the steerer, if that’s used rather than a star nut ( if you have a carbon steerer that’s likely) which is then pulled on by the top cap bolt to pre tension the bearings, at a much lower torque. This preload is applied by an Allen key until there’s no play and the headset moves freely, then checked with a torque wrench.

Vino'sGhost

This torque talk has no place here. Also as a point of general good hand tool technique, a torque meter and especially the click type wrenches should not be used to measure torque but to tighten to a chosen torque.

It’s a common mistake of the uneducated.

mfin

Vino'sGhost wrote:

This torque talk has no place here. Also as a point of general good hand tool technique, a torque meter and especially the click type wrenches should not be used to measure torque but to tighten to a chosen torque.

It’s a common mistake of the uneducated.

+1

Mentioning torque figures with regards to headset adjustment will only come from people who haven't got a clue, you'll never hear it mentioned by anyone who knows how to work on bikes properly because it's ridiculous.

imposter2.0

As above - you simply don't need a torque wrench to tighten top caps, or headset bungs - and you certainly don't need one to 'check' the torque afterwards, which (if you think about it) is a pretty pointless exercise. Strongly suggest that people just ignore the nonsense spouted by 'bikergrovish' and just carry on as though he's not here..