Elite Direto/Sufferfest

yellowv2

Hi,
I would be interested to know others experiences/views of this combination as since converting to this trainer from a dumb trainer I am yet to be convinced. I find the resistance sometimes takes an eternity to set itself to the correct level when using erg mode, also in slope mode the resistance is quite difficult to hold, fluctuating all the time.
I think the latter is possibly me not quite used to the trainer yet but erg mode makes the experience underwhelming!
I have calibrated and it is correct so have ruled this out.

StillGoing

I use a Direto with Sufferfest and don't have any problems (other than initially understanding my 4DP anomaly). If you're referring to short sprint intervals, the Direto and other trainers, excepting those at the top end of the food chain, can't cope with short 10s sprints in ERG mode. The new Elite Drivo II is about the first trainer that can actually cope with them in ERG mode. The trainers will all take a second or two to rise to the target power.

For ERG mode, just stick it in one gear such as the inner ring and middle of the block, and let the program adjust the resistance. There's no need to change gear. In slope mode, you probably need to set power smoothing to give you 3, 5 or even 10s average if you're not used to hitting a power target and holding it.

PinarelloPrince

Philthy, I don't own a Direto nor do I use Sufferfest but I've noticed a few times how helpful you are on this forum and how knowledgeable you are. Credit where it's due mate.

yellowv2

Phithy thanks for your help and advice. What I am experiencing are delays in excess of ten seconds and considerably more sometimes. I wasn’t referring to short intervals like the 10s sprint as was aware it can’t cope there.
Separately it seems much worse with Bluetooth and as I am using ant+ for cadence I am continueing to run with fe-c.

StillGoing

Have you tried just running with one or the other? Since my Lightening to HDMI lead stopped working with the iPad, I've switched to ANT+ connection with FE-C and an ANT+ cadence sensor and don't experience any problems. With the iPad, I just used BTE and the Direto's cadence estimation. Again I didn't suffer with any problems.

My only issues have been when I had a Zwift account where Zwift doesn't work with Windows and BTE, and yesterday with TrainerRoad where I kept losing ANT+ for power, but not for HR and cadence during a ramp test.

yellowv2

Apologies if I didn’t make it clear I am only using ANT+ with FE-C, as I didn’t find BTE worked very well.

wongataa

I have a Direto and sometimes on mine it can take a little while for the resistance to hit the correct level in erg mode. This doesn't happen very often so I don't worry about it.

StillGoing

I've just used mine with TrainerRoad and suffered with power drop outs and spikes using ANT+ and Windows. I then did a Sufferfest session and suffered no drop outs or spikes. Usual slight delay with power changes, but as long as I matched the suggested cadence, it soon match the power too. Even coped with ramping up without issue.

yellowv2

Thanks Philthy,
Following your advice and some suggestions from the minions @ Sufferfest I had a much improved session on the Direto last night. Although annoyingly the cadence kept going awol on the recovery intervals although the power and my cadence were fine. I’m waiting for a response to this from the Sufferfest today.

StillGoing

I've been in touch with TrainerRoad who confirm there are some very strange things going on with the ANT+ recording for power. They've sent the details to their boffins to investigate and to their credit, refunded me a months subscription for the failed sessions. They have asked me to do a session using BTE only, which I suppose will confirm whether its the Direto ANT+ signal causing the problem with TrainerRoad.

StillGoing

Just resurrecting this as having thought I'd solved the problems I was having with the Direto and FE-C connection by using a Wahoo cadence sensor, today the problem is back, be it BTE with iOS or ANT+ with Windows. Seems to be with just one workout so have asked Sufferfest to look into it. FE-C is detected with BTE but doesn't apply resistance and struggled to be found with ANT+.

I haven't bothered contacting Elite again as all they'll say is its a fault with Sufferfest (insert other software program name) or to do yet another calibration test.

moscowflyer

Sorry to bump this, but having looked online it seems a fair few people have had issues with this combo. Anyone here finding the issues have stopped or are there still problems?

I'll try the trial but don't want to spend too much time looking into it all if there's still issues, as I'll stick to TR and Zwift instead.

principia2000

I've been running Direto + Sufferfest for a year now. I initially thought that there were stability problems because the power was ranging up and down by 20W every few seconds, and I had a discussion with Elite about it. They persuaded me that it was variations in my cadence, or my 'pedaling in squares' technique that was causing the problem. They also suggested using the Elite MyEtraining app to set the power averaging to 5seconds.
Sure enough, after concentrating on smooth pedaling, the power variation smoothed out significantly.
Now I'm 100% happy with Direto + Sufferfest combo. It seems to have rock solid reliability. And not only has it improved my FTP, but also my pedaling style.

apreading

Yikes! I have been thinking more and more about one of these or similar but having read this, I am not sure I would have the patience or be bothered to make the effort you all have - just seems too complicated to be worth the hassle to me. Think I will wait a bit longer before investing.

bvduck

Hey guys. David from The Sufferfest here. I'm sorry to see that some of you are having troubles getting your Diretos working with The Sufferfest app. While it can be a tricky piece of gadgetry at times it is a solid trainer that is used successfully with The Sufferfest by a good many of our users.

The first thing that our minions in Sufferlandrian Services would have you check is that you are now on version 5.5 of our app. Since the start of this thread (and most of the following posts) we have revamped the inner workings of our device connections. If you have the app, just make sure you're allow it to update. Alternatively, you can get our most recent app versions here: https://thesufferfest.com/pages/get-started

The next thing to keep in mind is that, especially with the cadence estimation of the Direto enabled, the trainer seems to be more sensitive to wheel speed (really the speed of the flywheel) than most other direct drive trainers. We’ve had success recommending that users stay on the big ring up front and mid cassette to even things out a bit. Be warned though this does make the trainer a bit noisier.

If you’ve already checked those two things off of your list and are still having connection issues we’d have you review this article from our help center.
https://support.thesufferfest.com/hc/en ... onnections

Finally, if you are still struggling I’d encourage you to reach out to our wold-class team by emailing theminions@thesufferfest.com They are super quick to respond and will do their very best to get you up and running. Emailing us gives us the chance to look at your data and try to better understand what is happening rather than blindly diagnosing the issue.

yellowv2

Just to update, since my last post I have had discussions with Elite.
Like principia they suggested it was also my pedalling which was the problem. However I have switched to using my Garmin cadence sensor, rather than using the direto's own sensor and since doing so it has been faultless and operated very smoothly.
The Sufferfest minions were also extremely helpful in trying to help me sort the problem. I think it is just the sensitivity of the Direto that is the problem.

StillGoing

My experience was similar with connection issues. Might be my environment, but I doubt it as it initially worked fine and was again when I sold it. I suspect that as platforms have developed, Elite are just too slow with firmware updates. In the end, the Elite communication let me down so I switched to a Neo. Yes, its more expensive, but I couldn't find any reports of recurring faults on the internet.

yellowv2

Yes, I would agree. Their communication wasn't great, I don't think the language barrier helps. Sometimes I didn't think they understood what I was saying. I pretty much stumbled across the solution of connecting the Garmin sensor in the app myself.
How are you finding the Neo?

scott_w1987

bvduck wrote:

Hey guys. David from The Sufferfest here. I'm sorry to see that some of you are having troubles getting your Diretos working with The Sufferfest app. While it can be a tricky piece of gadgetry at times it is a solid trainer that is used successfully with The Sufferfest by a good many of our users.

Totally unrelated but just to let you know, I'm seriously impressed with your level of public involvement David, especially considering how much the platform has grown.

I've been using Sufferfest since it was downloadable content, when I was fat, unfit and using my dumb trainer with an old MTB. Many years later, much lighter and fitter, fairly good at road racing and now on a tacx smart trainer and it's still my go to training solution 2-5 times per week. Zwift breify gets a look in for 'random' riding when the weather doesn't appeal.

Looking forward to the new revamp coming in January. Keep up the good work!

bvduck

scott_w1987 wrote:

Totally unrelated but just to let you know, I'm seriously impressed with your level of public involvement David, especially considering how much the platform has grown. Looking forward to the new revamp coming in January. Keep up the good work!

Thanks so much, Scott. The team and I love serving the Sufferlandrian community. It's what we do. And when you see what we've been working on when the new app comes out in Jan, let us know what you think! Cheers, D.

PinarelloPrince

bvduck wrote:

scott_w1987 wrote:

Totally unrelated but just to let you know, I'm seriously impressed with your level of public involvement David, especially considering how much the platform has grown. Looking forward to the new revamp coming in January. Keep up the good work!

Thanks so much, Scott. The team and I love serving the Sufferlandrian community. It's what we do. And when you see what we've been working on when the new app comes out in Jan, let us know what you think! Cheers, D.

David a big +1 for Scott's comments above. Your engagement on here speaks volumes for your company. A complete opposite to Rouvy (you may want to read the thread)

I'd be keen to try Sufferfest, I don't suppose you'll be making an Apple TV app will you?

imposter2.0

Certainly can't fault David's willingness to engage. Many other businesses could learn from it. Long may it continue..

bvduck

PinarelloPrince wrote:

I'd be keen to try Sufferfest, I don't suppose you'll be making an Apple TV app will you?

Yep. We will. We wanted to have it out by the end of this year, but the big redesign/new functionality of our app meant that we decided to wait. That new app version will be out in mid-Jan. Amongst other things, it will include our new NoVid library (workouts without videos). As soon as we get that out, we'll get cracking on the Apple TV app and expect to have it out around April. In the meantime, if you have Mac/iPad/iPhone and an Apple TV, you can use screen mirroring.

PinarelloPrince

bvduck wrote:

PinarelloPrince wrote:

I'd be keen to try Sufferfest, I don't suppose you'll be making an Apple TV app will you?

Yep. We will. We wanted to have it out by the end of this year, but the big redesign/new functionality of our app meant that we decided to wait. That new app version will be out in mid-Jan. Amongst other things, it will include our new NoVid library (workouts without videos). As soon as we get that out, we'll get cracking on the Apple TV app and expect to have it out around April. In the meantime, if you have Mac/iPad/iPhone and an Apple TV, you can use screen mirroring.

Thanks for the quick reply. That's excellent news. I'm currently a FulGaz user. I'm more than pleased with it but I'd like to give Sufferfest a try.

I'll wait for the new app and mirror it on my Apple TV.

I'm pleased you see the opportunities for your business that Apple TV offers. ATM only FulGaz and Zwift have cottoned on. Those who don't catch up will suffer (pun intended) and lose out. Remember Nokia?

Thanks again.

StillGoing

yellowv2 wrote:

Yes, I would agree. Their communication wasn't great, I don't think the language barrier helps. Sometimes I didn't think they understood what I was saying. I pretty much stumbled across the solution of connecting the Garmin sensor in the app myself.
How are you finding the Neo?

Not had a chance to use it yet, but when trawling the internet to decide what I was going to replace the Direto with, I couldn't find much in the way of complaints for the Neo. Direto and Kickr there were plenty. These things aren't cheap and as this is my 4th smart trainer (Bushido = crap, Kura good but not truly smart and the Direto) I can't waste any more money that could be put towards other things.

scott_w1987

PinarelloPrince wrote:

bvduck wrote:

PinarelloPrince wrote:

I'd be keen to try Sufferfest, I don't suppose you'll be making an Apple TV app will you?

Yep. We will. We wanted to have it out by the end of this year, but the big redesign/new functionality of our app meant that we decided to wait. That new app version will be out in mid-Jan. Amongst other things, it will include our new NoVid library (workouts without videos). As soon as we get that out, we'll get cracking on the Apple TV app and expect to have it out around April. In the meantime, if you have Mac/iPad/iPhone and an Apple TV, you can use screen mirroring.

Thanks for the quick reply. That's excellent news. I'm currently a FulGaz user. I'm more than pleased with it but I'd like to give Sufferfest a try.

I'll wait for the new app and mirror it on my Apple TV.

I'm pleased you see the opportunities for your business that Apple TV offers. ATM only FulGaz and Zwift have cottoned on. Those who don't catch up will suffer (pun intended) and lose out. Remember Nokia?

Thanks again.

If you have a Mac/iPad/iPhone currently, you could download the app and use the 7 day free trial with screen mirroring via Apple TV.

Worth giving it a go, it's always been my favourite form of suffering on the turbo - the music, videos and captions all work well together, plus the workouts seem to work for me. I use zwift for just riding around/recovery days with the option of doing tempo efforts up the longer climbs.

moscowflyer

I've now done two workouts with the Direto/Sufferfest, a low cadence and high cadence one. It's been faultless and has been even smoother than TrainerRoad.

bvduck

MoscowFlyer wrote:

I've now done two workouts with the Direto/Sufferfest, a low cadence and high cadence one. It's been faultless and has been even smoother than TrainerRoad.

That's great to hear! Sounds like you might have done GOAT or Power Station and....? Did you get Full Frontal done yet?

moscowflyer

bvduck wrote:

MoscowFlyer wrote:

I've now done two workouts with the Direto/Sufferfest, a low cadence and high cadence one. It's been faultless and has been even smoother than TrainerRoad.

That's great to hear! Sounds like you might have done GOAT or Power Station and....? Did you get Full Frontal done yet?

GOAT and Do As You're Told.

Not done full frontal yet, saving that for the end of the year when I go full winter mode. I'll be replacing TR with SF permanently though and will keep Zwift as well for the social side of things.

singleton

MoscowFlyer wrote:

GOAT and Do As You're Told.

Not done full frontal yet, saving that for the end of the year when I go full winter mode. I'll be replacing TR with SF permanently though and will keep Zwift as well for the social side of things.

If you really commit to "Full Frontal" then can I suggest you have a washing up bowl nearby...