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Front wheel hub/bearing play

gdiddygdiddy Posts: 24
edited July 2018 in Workshop
So on my first ride on my new carbon clinchers I've noticed a hollow knocking sound on the front wheel when I'm rolling slowly.

I've checked all the spokes, nipples etc. I've taken the wheel off an removed the skewer and noticed a bit of lateral play between the inner part which holds the skewer and the outer park which holds the spokes.

I'm guessing this isn't normal and is causing the knocking sound. Is there anything I can do to fix, or does it need new bearings?

I can take a few pics later on today once I'm home from work.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Gary

Posts

  • gazza1286gazza1286 Posts: 45
    By lateral I presume you mean that the play is longitudinal in line with the axle shaft? Is this slack still present with the skewer tightened with the wheel in the drop outs?
    If it's still present then the bearing outer race may not be fully seated. There could be a fault on the hub or a foreign object causing an obstruction. The bearings themselves could also be at fault. They're cheap enough to replace - you could also contact the supplier for advice.
  • gdiddygdiddy Posts: 24
    gazza1286 wrote:
    By lateral I presume you mean that the play is longitudinal in line with the axle shaft? Is this slack still present with the skewer tightened with the wheel in the drop outs?
    If it's still present then the bearing outer race may not be fully seated. There could be a fault on the hub or a foreign object causing an obstruction. The bearings themselves could also be at fault. They're cheap enough to replace - you could also contact the supplier for advice.


    Yes in line with the axel shaft and yes there's still a little play once tightened onto the forks.

    There was a fault with the back wheel not having the spoke nipples tightened or glued and now this- so I've contacted the supplier to see if they I can return for a refund.

    Thanks
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,123
    What are the wheels / hubs? Are they cartridge or cup and cone bearing? Simple enough to eliminate play from the latter.

    And is there any play in the headset? (that's what I normally think about if I hear knocking from the front of the bike...)
  • gdiddygdiddy Posts: 24
    keef66 wrote:
    What are the wheels / hubs? Are they cartridge or cup and cone bearing? Simple enough to eliminate play from the latter.

    And is there any play in the headset? (that's what I normally think about if I hear knocking from the front of the bike...)

    Hi mate. I checked the headset and the knocking went when I put on some old wheels. Here's the spec-

    100% Carbon Fibre T700 High Mod UD Japanese Toray Carbon.
    New straight Pull Hubs for extra rigidity.
    Large Bearings for super smooth glide.
    HUB: High Tensile 7075-T6 Axle. 3 X Treble Pawl Free Hub. Steel Spline Insert (All in All Light and Bomb Proof)
    20F/24R Pillar PSRXTRA Aero straight pull.
    Highly effective hard wearing basalt braking surface with 3K weave (they can't burn out) more effective than alloy.
    Clincher and Tubeless Compatible Rims.
    Matt UD Finish.
    60mm Deep, 26mm Wide. Fits 20, 21, 23, 25, 27mm Clincher And Tubeless Tyres.
    Reinforced Kevlar Hoop Insert (Shatter Proof)
    New Modern Brake Track Width: 26mm.
    Tyre Bead Inside To Inside: 19mm.
    Max Recommended Tyre Pressure: 120 psi
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,123
    And putting that lot into Google suggests Zuus? Which say they have decent Japanese EZO cartridge bearings. Any sign of a way of adjusting bearing preload at the hub?
  • gdiddygdiddy Posts: 24
    keef66 wrote:
    And putting that lot into Google suggests Zuus? Which say they have decent Japanese EZO cartridge bearings. Any sign of a way of adjusting bearing preload at the hub?

    Yes, sorry mate Zuus.

    At work at the minute but I'll take a look tonight. Would it be something like this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIIMmsMx7Ng

    Thanks for the help
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Something like that, or some have a little collar you undo with a tiny hex grub screw to adjust.

    Some hubs don't have any adjustment at all and rely on the bearings being accurately pressed in. Did you get any instructions with them?

    Sorry to be a bit vague but I've only ever had old skool budget Shimano cup and cone hubs myself
  • gdiddygdiddy Posts: 24
    keef66 wrote:
    Something like that, or some have a little collar you undo with a tiny hex grub screw to adjust.

    Some hubs don't have any adjustment at all and rely on the bearings being accurately pressed in. Did you get any instructions with them?

    Sorry to be a bit vague but I've only ever had old skool budget Shimano cup and cone hubs myself


    HI mate, thanks a lot for your help by the way.

    Below is how the hubs look, I can't see any way of adjust them, any caps to pull off or spaces for hex screws/allen keys.

    http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah5 ... es7tb1.jpg
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Looks like there's no fine adjustment then. Guessing it's a simple Novatec hub or similar, the end caps are removed by sticking a 5mm hex key in each end and unscrewing. So maybe you could remove the play by tightening them?

    Alternatively take them off to check the bearings. When one end cap comes off you may need to stick a 6mm hex in to hold the axle still while you unscrew the other one. You should then be able to feel if one of the bearings feels sloppy or rough, or see if it's not fully pressed in.

    Bearings are simple cartridge jobs. Removal involves hammer and a suitably sized drift, and replacing them using a bearing press or you can again get away with a hammer and an old socket if you're careful.

    But if the things are relatively new, the retailer should really be sorting this out...
  • gdiddygdiddy Posts: 24
    keef66 wrote:
    Looks like there's no fine adjustment then. Guessing it's a simple Novatec hub or similar, the end caps are removed by sticking a 5mm hex key in each end and unscrewing. So maybe you could remove the play by tightening them?

    Alternatively take them off to check the bearings. When one end cap comes off you may need to stick a 6mm hex in to hold the axle still while you unscrew the other one. You should then be able to feel if one of the bearings feels sloppy or rough, or see if it's not fully pressed in.

    Bearings are simple cartridge jobs. Removal involves hammer and a suitably sized drift, and replacing them using a bearing press or you can again get away with a hammer and an old socket if you're careful.

    But if the things are relatively new, the retailer should really be sorting this out...

    Cheers mate.

    I couldn't see an obvious was of getting the caps off last night, but will look again tonight.

    I bought them last winter, kept them in the box, saved them for best and used them for the first time a few weeks back once my fitness was at a good level- then then i noticed this problem on my first ride.

    The retailer has offered to look at them, but I was hoping to fix them myself to avoid any cost and actually use the bloody things after I'd spent all year getting my fitness up!

    Thanks
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,123
    If you want to be super cautious, ask them first if you can remove slight play by tightening the end caps?

    But if they were mine I'd be tempted to stick an allen key in each end and see if they turn anyway....
  • gdiddygdiddy Posts: 24
    keef66 wrote:
    If you want to be super cautious, ask them first if you can remove slight play by tightening the end caps?

    But if they were mine I'd be tempted to stick an allen key in each end and see if they turn anyway....

    Yeah that's what I was thinking. I've got to grasps with most maintenance and replacements around road bikes, but never had to deal with wheels really, so I'm being extra cautious

    Thanks
  • gdiddygdiddy Posts: 24
    keef66 wrote:
    If you want to be super cautious, ask them first if you can remove slight play by tightening the end caps?

    But if they were mine I'd be tempted to stick an allen key in each end and see if they turn anyway....


    Hi.

    Using an allen key I can take the inner part of the hub out to reveal the bearings, then tighten them back up. There is still play as tight as they can go, so I'm guessing there must be a defect in the hub size?
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Sounds like it needs to go back to the retailer...
  • Vino'sGhostVino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    zuus have a uk website or a reseller/ distributor at least. the warranty info is on there.

    Take them back to your retailer it may be something simple.

    if the retailer is more than 20 mins away, since you now know how simple it is to get at the bearings, stick your finger in and see if theres any rocking from either of them. Then rotate, it should feel smooth with no notchiness or areas where the rotation becomes more difficult. Its surprising how good we are at feeling the problem.

    nb its normal for there to be a very small amount of constant resistance, that is the seals doing their thing.

    Most wheel bearings are a few quid and take only a few minutes to replace. You don't even need any tools in that hub, just the old bearings to act as drifts and a skewer to tighten/ push the new bearings in. Maybe a smear of grease on the bearing and/or inside of the hub to help things on their way. its a 10 minute job even if moving cautiously.
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