Injuries and problems to do with mountain biking equipment

ssxmi

Hi all,

I'm a Year 10, about to be Year 11, GCSE student. For my Technology GCSE I must do something called an NEA. This NEA involves the exam board giving us a choice of three contexts to find problems with, and after about 8 months, create a prototype and a massive power-point slide with just a ton of research and stuff. The power-point is A3 size paper and size 12 font max, we are expected to do around 60 slides. As if the prototype wasn't hard enough. For my context i picked physical recreation and will be attempting to improve the safety of mountain biking or downhill mountain biking. I have never done either of these sports and need your help to list ANY kind of problem you may have had in the past, mainly to do with the equipment and gear though I would be happy to look at problems with the bike itself as well. I will need proof of this so I will be taking print screens so if you are not comfortable with this just say and I will blur out your name. This test is very important to me as an aspiring engineer so please do comment anything that comes to mind if it may be useful to me.

Thanks for your time

Chunkers1980

Not sure what you are asking for. Can you be more specific?

I slipped off my flats once. Cained my shin, hurt for around a month.

Chain snapped under power, hurt my knackers.

I also crashed into a tree, rammed my shoulder.

Is that what youre after?

CitizenLee

The bikes themselves are probably as safe as they're ever going to be, so you maybe want to look at things like neck braces, back protectors, convertible enduro helmets vs full face helmets etc.

Then you can design something like this 8) 8) 8)

cooldad

ssxmi wrote:

Hi all,

Some waffle...

I have never done either of these sports...

More waffle...

Maybe do something you actually know something about.

CitizenLee

cooldad wrote:

ssxmi wrote:

Hi all,

Some waffle...

I have never done either of these sports...

More waffle...

Maybe do something you actually know something about.

He's a kid, gotta start somewhere.

Plus I don't think they do NEAs in Fortnite, wanking or hanging around the local shopping center

The Rookie

Cracked 2 ribs in a face plant when the front wheel went away on a wooden bridge.

Had the brake lever pierce my upper forum after I misjudged a step up and hit the crankset and the bike stopped dead throwing my forward over the controls and then fell sideways with my upper arm landing on the end of the bars.

Bad gravel rash with an OTB.

Long_Time_Lurker

Friend broke his sternum going over the front wheel and landing on the upturned handlebar. From the screaming, I'm guessing it hurt a lot. Needed a helicopter extraction for that one.

Me - just bruised shins, and I fractured my knee-cap back in Feb. Not healing as quickly as I hoped.

ssxmi

Long Time Lurker wrote:

Friend broke his sternum going over the front wheel and landing on the upturned handlebar. From the screaming, I'm guessing it hurt a lot. Needed a helicopter extraction for that one.

Me - just bruised shins, and I fractured my knee-cap back in Feb. Not healing as quickly as I hoped.

Sounds horrible, did your friend have any chest protective gear on? Also how did he go over the wheel? Did his bike lose grip or was he going downhill quickly?

ssxmi

The Rookie wrote:

Cracked 2 ribs in a face plant when the front wheel went away on a wooden bridge.

Had the brake lever pierce my upper forum after I misjudged a step up and hit the crankset and the bike stopped dead throwing my forward over the controls and then fell sideways with my upper arm landing on the end of the bars.

Bad gravel rash with an OTB.

So in these instances what sort of protection were you wearing? Anything for the forearms? If you weren't, why? Also were your front wheels lacking grip or was there just nothing you could do?

ssxmi

cooldad wrote:

ssxmi wrote:

Hi all,

Some waffle...

I have never done either of these sports...

More waffle...

Maybe do something you actually know something about.

well as I said we don't get to pick. We have a choice of three contexts, the other two only 2 people picked in my entire year because there is literally nothing to write about. As for physical recreation, I go to the gym and take part in sports like football or taekwondo. However, I would not be able to come up with at least 10 prototypes and 60+ slides worth of data about the gym and its problems, furthermore football and taekwondo are sports with rules meaning a product that doesn't go against some type of rule and doesn't already exist would be virtually impossible.
Believe me, if i picked something its because I'm comfortable with researching it and doing it, I don't exactly want to fail do I?

ssxmi

CitizenLee wrote:

The bikes themselves are probably as safe as they're ever going to be, so you maybe want to look at things like neck braces, back protectors, convertible enduro helmets vs full face helmets etc.

Then you can design something like this 8) 8) 8)

Yep that's exactly what I was thinking which is why is said i'd prefer problems with the gear and equipment. I've actually looked and written about the Hovdig, the inflatable scarf you showed me, already and I have noted its type of technology down as a possibility for at least one of my prototypes, if not my final prototype.
Thanks though!

ssxmi

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Not sure what you are asking for. Can you be more specific?

I slipped off my flats once. Cained my shin, hurt for around a month.

Chain snapped under power, hurt my knackers.

I also crashed into a tree, rammed my shoulder.

Is that what youre after?

Yes that sort of stuff but if you could add more detail in each instance. So for example, what were you wearing, protection wise as well as normal clothing, was it high quality, low quality? What bike were you using? Was its old, new, worn out, etc? What was the weather and terrain like, dry or soaking wet, rocky or muddy? Literally ANYTHING will be useful. What you've told me is very useful already so thanks but if you could answer all my questions above for each instance i would be literally set for the rest of my NEA.
Once you've done this i can begin to work out all the problems the different gear has and why it didn't work. Even if you weren't wearing certain gear that would have protected you tell me why. For example if its sweaty or uncomfortable, that's a problem which i can then list in my NEA, research, and possibly that could lead to one of my first prototypes.

CitizenLee

ssxmi wrote:

CitizenLee wrote:

The bikes themselves are probably as safe as they're ever going to be, so you maybe want to look at things like neck braces, back protectors, convertible enduro helmets vs full face helmets etc.

Then you can design something like this 8) 8) 8)

Yep that's exactly what I was thinking which is why is said i'd prefer problems with the gear and equipment. I've actually looked and written about the Hovdig, the inflatable scarf you showed me, already and I have noted its type of technology down as a possibility for at least one of my prototypes, if not my final prototype.
Thanks though!

Cool, so you've done some research already then.

Also look at the company Leatt who are one of the more well known neck brace brands. If you search for online discussion about them some people think they offer excellent protection and wouldn't ride without them, wheras others think they can cause greater injury so don't bother. I reckon that might be a good case study.

Personally, I've have more offs on my MTB than I can remember but they're usually my own fault... going too fast, braking too late, not paying enough attention etc. I can't actually think of any instance where I could lay the blame directly on my bike or my equipment, other than say not adjusting the pressure in my tyres for the trail conditions, but even then it's still my own fault. Even things like a chain snapping, you can mostly prevent this by frequently checking if it's worn.

Moving on to specific safety equipment. I only wear a helmet, and occasionally an impact vest if I'm hitting the bigger jumps or gnarlier trails.

I don't wear knee or elbow pads as I find them sweaty and restrictive, even ones designed to be breathable and lightweight. I also don't wear gloves as I tend to find the lack of feeling causes me to over-grip, which in turn leads to hand cramps. Callouses and scuffed palms FTW.

Hope this helps

ssxmi

CitizenLee wrote:

ssxmi wrote:

CitizenLee wrote:

The bikes themselves are probably as safe as they're ever going to be, so you maybe want to look at things like neck braces, back protectors, convertible enduro helmets vs full face helmets etc.

Then you can design something like this 8) 8) 8)

Yep that's exactly what I was thinking which is why is said i'd prefer problems with the gear and equipment. I've actually looked and written about the Hovdig, the inflatable scarf you showed me, already and I have noted its type of technology down as a possibility for at least one of my prototypes, if not my final prototype.
Thanks though!

Cool, so you've done some research already then.

Also look at the company Leatt who are one of the more well known neck brace brands. If you search for online discussion about them some people think they offer excellent protection and wouldn't ride without them, wheras others think they can cause greater injury so don't bother. I reckon that might be a good case study.

Personally, I've have more offs on my MTB than I can remember but they're usually my own fault... going too fast, braking too late, not paying enough attention etc. I can't actually think of any instance where I could lay the blame directly on my bike or my equipment, other than say not adjusting the pressure in my tyres for the trail conditions, but even then it's still my own fault. Even things like a chain snapping, you can mostly prevent this by frequently checking if it's worn.

Moving on to specific safety equipment. I only wear a helmet, and occasionally an impact vest if I'm hitting the bigger jumps or gnarlier trails.

I don't wear knee or elbow pads as I find them sweaty and restrictive, even ones designed to be breathable and lightweight. I also don't wear gloves as I tend to find the lack of feeling causes me to over-grip, which in turn leads to hand cramps. Callouses and scuffed palms FTW.

Hope this helps

Thanks a ton, that'll keep me busy for a good few days, ill be sure to look into all of that.

steve_sordy

Why not focus on crash helmets?

There is a massive amount of examples to look at on the market, published safety standards etc. There are distinctly different types of helmet: road, trail, downhill for example. There are many different design solutions. And a huge amount of work has gone into making them look as attractive as possible. Yet many people don't or won't wear them! Why is this?

I have broken every single helmet I have owned except the two I have now. So it puzzles me when I see riders on the trail without helmets. Is this because they think it won't happen to them, do they believe that helmets are too expensive, not cool etc? Are they not using them because they think that "this trail is too easy, I won't fall off". Is it peer pressure; "none of my mates are wearing them, so even though I have one in my backpack, I'm not going to wear it. (I have witnessed that)." One lad told me that he wasn't afraid to die. When I replied that there were worse things than death, like having to have your Mum change your nappy for you every day, he went a bit quiet!

So you can see that the problem is "mtb riders not wearing helmets". There are many reasons for this, and I have listed a few of them, but what are the facts, where are the studies? I'm sure that the GCSE examiners are not looking for ground breaking ideas. What they will be looking for is to see that you can assess a problem, research the problem, marshal the facts and present it all in a clear and compelling way. If this was a final year degree project, then yes, ground breaking would be good, but not at GCSE, ask your teacher.

PS: I believe that it is important to distinguish between mtb riders and road riders. I am not going to tell you why I think so, you have to do some of the work!

ssxmi

steve_sordy wrote:

Why not focus on crash helmets?

There is a massive amount of examples to look at on the market, published safety standards etc. There are distinctly different types of helmet: road, trail, downhill for example. There are many different design solutions. And a huge amount of work has gone into making them look as attractive as possible. Yet many people don't or won't wear them! Why is this?

I have broken every single helmet I have owned except the two I have now. So it puzzles me when I see riders on the trail without helmets. Is this because they think it won't happen to them, do they believe that helmets are too expensive, not cool etc? Are they not using them because they think that "this trail is too easy, I won't fall off". Is it peer pressure; "none of my mates are wearing them, so even though I have one in my backpack, I'm not going to wear it. (I have witnessed that)." One lad told me that he wasn't afraid to die. When I replied that there were worse things than death, like having to have your Mum change your nappy for you every day, he went a bit quiet!

So you can see that the problem is "mtb riders not wearing helmets". There are many reasons for this, and I have listed a few of them, but what are the facts, where are the studies? I'm sure that the GCSE examiners are not looking for ground breaking ideas. What they will be looking for is to see that you can assess a problem, research the problem, marshal the facts and present it all in a clear and compelling way. If this was a final year degree project, then yes, ground breaking would be good, but not at GCSE, ask your teacher.

PS: I believe that it is important to distinguish between mtb riders and road riders. I am not going to tell you why I think so, you have to do some of the work!

To be honest my main 'focus' is on the head and neck area, however I'm only focusing on that area in my mind as on the NEA im trying to hit as many different areas as possible to show that i have looked at everything that there is and haven't done what the exam board calls 'design fixation'. What you are saying is entirely correct, the exam board isn't looking for a ground breaking discovery. The main part, with the most marks, is actually how you got to the final prototype, which is why the first slides and research, like asking around on forums, is SO important. I have been thinking of solutions to the reasons why people don't wear helmets, many find it sweaty and uncomfortable, that lead me to stumble upon the hovding, the inflatable scarf. Ever since one of my ideas has been some sort of inflatable suit or backpack.
This has all been very helpful so thanks a ton for that.
Also are helmets meant to break and crack or are they meant to dent and bend, I've looked all over and always find people arguing over what its meant to do. I personally believe it shouldn't crack because then its not absorbing the impact but you tell me since you've had first hand experience.
Thanks.

02gf74

ssxmi wrote:

i picked physical recreation and will be attempting to improve the safety of mountain biking or downhill mountainD

There are professional teams on big budgets competing at the top levels, do you not think the team supporting the riders do their utmost to ensure the safety of the rider and reliability of the equipment, I doubt an 11 year old who has never ridden off road is going to do better than them.

I'd narrow down the scope of the project.

Accidents inevitably are user error or due to going too fast, less frequent is component failure.

ssxmi

02GF74 wrote:

ssxmi wrote:

i picked physical recreation and will be attempting to improve the safety of mountain biking or downhill mountainD

There are professional teams on big budgets competing at the top levels, do you not think the team supporting the riders do their utmost to ensure the safety of the rider and reliability of the equipment, I doubt an 11 year old who has never ridden off road is going to do better than them.

I'd narrow down the scope of the project.

Accidents inevitably are user error or due to going too fast, less frequent is component failure.

I understand all of that but hey man, I don't make up the exams or contexts. I've asked for certain thing from you and many people have delivered on that superbly, no doubt bumping my grade up by quite a bit already. If you find yourself incapable to follow basic English and not be stubborn then there is a little cross in the top right corner of your screen. Calling me an 11 year old just confirms your stupidity and lack of a fully functioning brain. I apologise if you genuinely thought this was helpful in any way but i think you should just take a hint and leave.
kind regards

02gf74

Thanks for that, your post made me smile.

If be interested how you think I got 10 o levels, 5 a levels and university degree with my stupidity and lack of a fully functioning brain, all done without any one else pushing up my grades.

ssxmi

02GF74 wrote:

Thanks for that, your post made me smile.

If be interested how you think I got 10 o levels, 4 a levels and university degree with my stupidity and lack of a fully functioning brain, all done without any one else pushing up my grades.

I'll*, also the mark scheme requires me to ask other people so please just leave

sniper68

02GF74 wrote:

Thanks for that, your post made me smile.
If be interested how you think I got 10 o levels, 5 a levels and university degree with my stupidity and lack of a fully functioning brain, all done without any one else pushing up my grades.

Year 11 is what we used to call 5th year ie 15/16 year olds..I only know this as my daughter is now Y12(6th Form in old money).No point mentioning O-levels as the GCSE generation have no concept as to why we who sat them despair as to how easy they have it and wonder how GCSE "A passes" seem to be on the rise every year

steve_sordy

ssxmi wrote:

...................

....................
Also are helmets meant to break and crack or are they meant to dent and bend, I've looked all over and always find people arguing over what its meant to do. I personally believe it shouldn't crack because then its not absorbing the impact but you tell me since you've had first hand experience.
Thanks.

Helmets have to be tough enough to survive everyday handling and use. I don't want them to break if a small branch hits them because I didn't duck far enough! I want it to prevent my head from being bruised from that branch, but not for the helmet to break. I don't want it to break if it falls out of the car. The damage the helmet suffers has to be proportional. I don't mind it transmitting a bang that makes me know I've hit something and that makes me pull my neck down and swear a bit. But if I get a proper bang that without a helmet I would have a fractured skull or worse, I would rather the helmet be written off! My helmet or my brain, no contest! I don't want to be a just a little bit brain damaged! :shock:

As I said earlier, every helmet I have owned except the two I have now (one a full face and one a trail helmet) have been broken. Of the ones that have broken, one was damaged by attrition, by that I mean an accumulation of minor bangs and knocks that eventually resulted in the shell de-laminating from the polystyrene body. All the others had been split clean through from a big impact, none of which caused me any pain other than financial.

If I had driven my car for four hours to get to a trail centre and I discovered that I had left my helmet behind, I would not ride my bike until I had bought a helmet. I would ride in my ordinary shoes (done that) and without gloves (done that), and without riding specs (done that), but not without a helmet!

FishFish

Knee injury - probably overuse, off road biking twice a day. Rest and reduction in mileage sorted it.

FishFish

Long Time Lurker wrote:

Friend broke his sternum going over the front wheel and landing on the upturned handlebar. From the screaming, I'm guessing it hurt a lot. Needed a helicopter extraction for that one.

Me - just bruised shins, and I fractured my knee-cap back in Feb. Not healing as quickly as I hoped.

Did he use the helicopter to extract the bar from his sternum? I would have just pulled it out. (...and stolen his wallet of course).

ssxmi

steve_sordy wrote:

ssxmi wrote:

...................

....................
Also are helmets meant to break and crack or are they meant to dent and bend, I've looked all over and always find people arguing over what its meant to do. I personally believe it shouldn't crack because then its not absorbing the impact but you tell me since you've had first hand experience.
Thanks.

Helmets have to be tough enough to survive everyday handling and use. I don't want them to break if a small branch hits them because I didn't duck far enough! I want it to prevent my head from being bruised from that branch, but not for the helmet to break. I don't want it to break if it falls out of the car. The damage the helmet suffers has to be proportional. I don't mind it transmitting a bang that makes me know I've hit something and that makes me pull my neck down and swear a bit. But if I get a proper bang that without a helmet I would have a fractured skull or worse, I would rather the helmet be written off! My helmet or my brain, no contest! I don't want to be a just a little bit brain damaged! :shock:

As I said earlier, every helmet I have owned except the two I have now (one a full face and one a trail helmet) have been broken. Of the ones that have broken, one was damaged by attrition, by that I mean an accumulation of minor bangs and knocks that eventually resulted in the shell de-laminating from the polystyrene body. All the others had been split clean through from a big impact, none of which caused me any pain other than financial.

If I had driven my car for four hours to get to a trail centre and I discovered that I had left my helmet behind, I would not ride my bike until I had bought a helmet. I would ride in my ordinary shoes (done that) and without gloves (done that), and without riding specs (done that), but not without a helmet!

So could you do me a favour and give me the exact name of the two helmets you have now? I could look them up and add that to my research.
Thanks.

ssxmi

Sniper68 wrote:

02GF74 wrote:

Thanks for that, your post made me smile.
If be interested how you think I got 10 o levels, 5 a levels and university degree with my stupidity and lack of a fully functioning brain, all done without any one else pushing up my grades.

Year 11 is what we used to call 5th year ie 15/16 year olds..I only know this as my daughter is now Y12(6th Form in old money).No point mentioning O-levels as the GCSE generation have no concept as to why we who sat them despair as to how easy they have it and wonder how GCSE "A passes" seem to be on the rise every year

Yes except that fact that these 'A passes' 1) no longer exist, 2) have been recently made more difficult (A lot more difficult if you look at the statistics), 3) the reason why you may think they are a lot more easy is because if a large portion of the country get a grade 6 for example the grades will be rounded up as clearly, with that many people getting low grades, its not the fault of the student but the way the exam boards have been teaching us.

ssxmi

ssxmi wrote:

steve_sordy wrote:

ssxmi wrote:

...................

....................
Also are helmets meant to break and crack or are they meant to dent and bend, I've looked all over and always find people arguing over what its meant to do. I personally believe it shouldn't crack because then its not absorbing the impact but you tell me since you've had first hand experience.
Thanks.

Helmets have to be tough enough to survive everyday handling and use. I don't want them to break if a small branch hits them because I didn't duck far enough! I want it to prevent my head from being bruised from that branch, but not for the helmet to break. I don't want it to break if it falls out of the car. The damage the helmet suffers has to be proportional. I don't mind it transmitting a bang that makes me know I've hit something and that makes me pull my neck down and swear a bit. But if I get a proper bang that without a helmet I would have a fractured skull or worse, I would rather the helmet be written off! My helmet or my brain, no contest! I don't want to be a just a little bit brain damaged! :shock:

As I said earlier, every helmet I have owned except the two I have now (one a full face and one a trail helmet) have been broken. Of the ones that have broken, one was damaged by attrition, by that I mean an accumulation of minor bangs and knocks that eventually resulted in the shell de-laminating from the polystyrene body. All the others had been split clean through from a big impact, none of which caused me any pain other than financial.

If I had driven my car for four hours to get to a trail centre and I discovered that I had left my helmet behind, I would not ride my bike until I had bought a helmet. I would ride in my ordinary shoes (done that) and without gloves (done that), and without riding specs (done that), but not without a helmet!

So could you do me a favour and give me the exact name of the two helmets you have now? I could look them up and add that to my research.
Thanks.

whoops forgot to mention, could you give the names of a few of the helmets you have broken as well, no worries if you cant but it would be helpful if i could compare the two different helmets and try and figure out why one broke and the other didn't etc.

Long_Time_Lurker

ssxmi wrote:

Long Time Lurker wrote:

Friend broke his sternum going over the front wheel and landing on the upturned handlebar...

Sounds horrible, did your friend have any chest protective gear on? Also how did he go over the wheel? Did his bike lose grip or was he going downhill quickly?

No chest protection - was a short downhill section of a local trail which have ridden 1000s of times before. Perfect riding conditions and he wasn't going too fast. Wheel got caught on something on the way down, twisted his handlebar 90 degrees, he went over the front and landed on it. Just very unlucky.

ssxmi

Long Time Lurker wrote:

ssxmi wrote:

Long Time Lurker wrote:

Friend broke his sternum going over the front wheel and landing on the upturned handlebar...

Sounds horrible, did your friend have any chest protective gear on? Also how did he go over the wheel? Did his bike lose grip or was he going downhill quickly?

No chest protection - was a short downhill section of a local trail which have ridden 1000s of times before. Perfect riding conditions and he wasn't going too fast. Wheel got caught on something on the way down, twisted his handlebar 90 degrees, he went over the front and landed on it. Just very unlucky.

hmm well i hope hes alright now

ssxmi

Long Time Lurker wrote:

ssxmi wrote:

Long Time Lurker wrote:

Friend broke his sternum going over the front wheel and landing on the upturned handlebar...

Sounds horrible, did your friend have any chest protective gear on? Also how did he go over the wheel? Did his bike lose grip or was he going downhill quickly?

No chest protection - was a short downhill section of a local trail which have ridden 1000s of times before. Perfect riding conditions and he wasn't going too fast. Wheel got caught on something on the way down, twisted his handlebar 90 degrees, he went over the front and landed on it. Just very unlucky.

by the way, did something get caught in between the wheel spokes?

figbat

Just one sizeable off for me. I was descending a fairly shallow but very narrow trail, chasing a Strava PR. Just at the point where you either have to brake for safety or release for speed (at the risk of meeting someone coming the other way, unsighted), I decided to release. As fate would have it, it was the only time I have ever met someone riding up the other way - we both swerved to our respective right; he simple came to a halt in the bushes whereas Strava tells me my accident initiated at 24 mph. I nearly got away with it but the front wheel eventually dug in at a sideways angle and over the bars I went. I was very lucky, just suffering a few scrapes and bruises (and a torn jersey) but my shoulder suffered for ages afterwards (aches and restricted mobility) - I recall putting my right hand out to cushion the fall and I landed on my right shoulder and hip. I was wearing a helmet (pretty sure that it didn’t touch down), gloves, SPD shoes, MTB shorts, a jersey and a hydration backpack. Oh, and some sunglasses. Apart from the torn jersey the rest of the kit survived intact and my shoes unclipped letting me separate from the bike during the fall.

I think what would have helped is a dose of sanity before I got to the accident or maybe some kind of proximity radar to warn of the approaching obstacle. I would not have worn any other equipment as it was a really hot day, unless it magically offered protection without affecting airflow.

I didn’t get my PR, although amazingly I DID on the next segment, after I had cleaned my wounds and got going again. I put that down to an adrenaline rush.